qan> OK -- all who are here, could you indicate you're not AFK?
qan> .
Zizzo>
Wazzaaa.NL> sup
Shaddowknight> .
Drosophila> .
sleepyjoe> .
starmatrix> .
WillBy> .
ipaD> .
M_M God> .
qan> we have 9, then. that's not quorum
qan> but we can still discuss how this'll work
qan> OK then. first, I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time out of your schedule to dedicate yourself to a zone that obviously you care about
qan> this is not trivial or small. it means a lot. please conduct yourself appropriately -- with respect for all in (and out) of council while in these meetings
qan> respect is the foundation of any strong meeting. as well as efficiency -- for both these purposes, we'll use robert's rules of order
qan> this meeting is still informal, as not everyone is familiar with robert's rules yet. the next meeting WILL use robert's rules
qan> and you can make mistakes with the rules -- you're not expected to be an expert -- but you'll be expected to be able to have a working idea of how the meetings will run
qan> please take a moment to open this document, if you haven't already: http://www.abateofaz.org/pics/SimplifiedRobertsRulesofOrder.pdf
qan> the most important thing: robert's rules work on ONE THING at a time. so if we're discussing one piece of business, all discussion is about that piece of business
qan> they also allow ONE PERSON to speak at a time. one topic, one person
fpubfe> is this a private meeting
qan> you can interrupt the speaker only for a few specific reasons -- special motions, they're called. and they're not common. if you need clarification or if you would like to amend a motion, for example
qan> no, it's public, but please don't speak during it unless it's quite important. PMs vastly preferred
fpubfe> gotcha sorry
DDF <ZH>> where is my sword of the round table?!
qan> when each meeting begins, it will be called to order, signifying the meeting's started. the rules are then in effect. the chair (myself) will take a roll call to determine who's here
qan> at this point, we'll see if we have quorum -- enough council members to conduct business
ipaD> .
qan> question? oh, also -- this formation meeting is informal, so if you have questions, please ask
qan> is there anything I've gone over so far that's unclear?
ipaD> no
ipaD> but i do have question
qan> sure, what's up?
DDF <ZH>> When will there be a turret wars division?
bellflowers> i have a question
ipaD> regarding efficiency of having the meeting progressing smoothly i move for the usage of using something like ts to make the meeting go quickly and smoothly
qan> ddf, please no discussion of specific issues -- everything right now pertains to the business at hand, which is meeting procedure
sleepyjoe> what is ts? voice?
qan> ipad, not everyone's set up for teamspeak
ipaD> teamspeak
bellflowers> why did staff take the ?buy repel function off weasel while not in safe?
ipaD> its possible to be downloaded
qan> but I'd like to use it in the future if possible
ipaD> bell we're not talkin about specific issues atm
qan> bellflowers, same as DDF (everything right now pertains to the business at hand, which is meeting procedure)
bellflowers> tell me the awnser!
WillBy> hush bellfy
qan> also, future council meetings will not be open for the public to speak. you'll need to speak to a council member.
DDF <ZH>> we need a town hall meetign then
DDF <ZH>> once a month
qan> this isn't to be unfair -- it's so meetings can move along rapidly
ipaD> understood
qan> perhaps, but that's not up for discussion at the moment. the issue at hand is council procedure
qan> are there any questions regarding council procedure covered so far?
bellflowers> this is y this game is dying no1 has an opinion anymore
Wazzaaa.NL> so when i disagree with a councilmember on w/e topic, i just say appeal?
bellflowers> sometimes warm
qan> I'll be silencing people as needed
qan> please refrain from speaking for the time being unless you have something to say about the issue at hand
qan> after the meeting is called to order and a roll call is taken to determine that there are enough members for business to take place -- which is 10 out of 18 members, in our case
qan> the minutes from the last mmeeting are reviewed, so we can be brought up to speed on the last business. then any committees report. we'll get into committees later -- fairly simple, but it allows motions to be studied outside of the meeting
Yuengling> hi guys im here for the meeting!
griz <ZH>> please keep your questions or comments in yellow chat thanks
ipaD> or get silenced
DDF <ZH>> can you se eme?
qan> thanks for coming! you're welcomed to speak for this meeting, as it's informal, but please keep any comments or questions relevant
qan> in the interest of efficiency
Yuengling> ok :)
Wazzaaa.NL> when i disagree with a councilmember on w/e topic, i just say appeal?
fpubfe> question: do the council members have specific positions on the council (not their staff positions on TW) besides qan being chair?
qan> we'll be getting to that, but no, not quite like that
DDF <ZH>> They are jsut showing the public how the precess will go
griz <ZH>> qan will answer that
qan> no, there are no specific positions
qan> though staff members have been chosen to represent areas on staff
Wazzaaa.NL> when i want to discuss a topic it first has to be approved by the chairman before it can be talked/discussed about?
qan> these positions don't entail any special consideration, though. all votes are equal
qan> no, wazz -- we'll get to that
ipaD> good question waz
Wazzaaa.NL> ok
fpubfe> then I suggest there be at least a few specific roles ie. secretary, treasurer, m.c., if not permanent roles for a specific person, then roles that have to be filled for each meeting
fpubfe> just to ensure that what needs to be done is done
qan> we'd then go over special business (business that's important we consider at the meeting) and unfinished business from last week that must be handled. we'll gloss over that and skip to NEW BUSINESS
qan> because that's what everyone's interested in :)
Yuengling> ready for my role
qan> also, we now have quorum
Yuengling> :)
Magica> anyone else cringing right now?
fpubfe> not me
fpubfe> this is exactly what the zone needs
qan> to bring a motion (a piece of business) before council, you wait until essentially the end of the meeting, and bring in a new motion. simply state, when no other business is on the floor (being handled): "I motion that" -- and what you motion
qan> It's best to get a motion on the agenda beforehand. we have no agenda for this meeting, as it's informal, but each meeting following will have an agenda
qan> at this point, someone will second your motion, meaning they agree it should be considered. anyone can do this
qan> you'll then be given a short amount of time to describe your motion. keep it brief and to the point, as much as possible
ffe> is qan's explanation right now regarding council members only?
ffe> as public are not allowed to attend future meetings?
Yuengling> it was relevant
qan> at this point, others are welcome to discuss it. there are no taking turns in robert's rules. it's simply the next person who says they'd like to speak after the person has finished speaking
Yuengling> we are sitting here in this arena having a meeting about 2d spaceships
ipaD> ffe public can attend meetings but questions must be addressed to a council member
ffe> ah. Gotcha.
qan> ok, yueng, if you're not going to keep it relevant, I'm going to have to silence you. I apologize.
qan> you get one chance to speak. you reply to the motion itself, and not to the last person speaking
qan> it's not a time to argue. make your point and be done with it.,
griz <ZH>> we are having a discussion about the future of a community, this one is informal at best, but please keep it relevant
ipaD> its alright move on
qan> once everyone's had a chance to speak, you can speak again, if you like. once everyone's through speaking, a motion can be made to: call a vote, push the motion to committee, table it, or kill it outright (there are a few others)
qan> (but those are the main)
qan> these motions are ABOUT the motion. you can also motion to change the wording of the motion, if you want -- that's an important one
Oderus Urungus> captain urungus reporting for duty
Frogsk|n> lmao
qan> the vote is simple enough. it's done publicly. (if desired, we can vote privately on some motions, but that's not recommended)
qan> if we don't have enough information to make a decision, we can put it to committee. this means that a group chosen by the chairman will be asked to investigate the issue, perhaps gather some data, so council can make a decision about it
qan> this would mean we'd vote on it next meeting
Frogsk|n> SHould make a council arena with rules top right like pub, so qan doesnt have to go trhough all this.
Magica> Why not just create a forumpost explaining all this and make the first twcouncil meeting useful?
qan> if you want to delay voting on a motion but don't think it's important enough for committee/data can't be gathered, you can TABLE a motion. this is very common. a motion is put on the table for later consideration
Frogsk|n> or that^
sleepyjoe> it would be useful if we could get it going
qan> because not everyone will read it. :P
Magica> fair enough
sleepyjoe> by which i mean if everyone but qan could stfu
Frogsk|n> Ok then, their loss
DDF <ZH>> Not everyone is here to see it either though?
Frogsk|n> lol
fiS> its the 1st session and it's important that it's done like that. forum posts nobody's gonna read, and people who are truly interested SHOULD have the time for this session.
DELECTABLE> im here now
qan> a tabled motion, if not dealt with by the next meeting, will die. (this is the "unfinished business" part)
Frogsk|n> Its not that fis, its for the sake of qan
qan> and last, you can simply vote to kill the motion entirely, or "tabled indefinitely", if you think we should never consider it at all
Frogsk|n> lol
slEaZy> captain Sleazy reporting for duty
DELECTABLE> ok im bored
qan> any questions about how to introduce new motions?
qan> in practice it's really pretty simple
Magica> can you explain this all again, I lost track somewhere along the line
qan> no :> http://www.abateofaz.org/pics/SimplifiedRobertsRulesofOrder.pdf http://corp.sbay.org/board/rules-of-order/ubc-sroo.pdf
ffe> having a video/audio groupchat, where the public can talk in text but the council members are on video + speaking will minimize the effects of clowns, as well
ipaD> second
qan> for discussion, I'd like to adopt a convention: when done speaking, use a single . on its own line -- to raise your hand/take the floor, use o/
qan> if everyone's all right with that. this can eventually be built into a bot.
Toucan Son Of Sam> Captain Toucan Son Of Sam, reporting for duty
ipaD> so if its not ur turn will the bot just not allow you to speak?
Drosophila> I motion, we move on to the next topic, discussion?
qan> that's the idea, yeah
Toucan Son Of Sam> hello fellow councilmen
ipaD> second droso
Drosophila> vote, y for yes
Drosophila> y
ipaD> y
Magica> AYE
Frogsk|n> y
Toucan Son Of Sam> i motion that we all take a recess and go outside and get some fresh air
ipaD> ^ silence
qan> doesn't really work that way, heh. that's why we use robert's rules. but this is informal
Drosophila> then, let's go through an example of how we should do it.
ffe> also, maybe have an age restriction for council members, and find a easy method to verify this. the implications of this can be huge
qan> if council agrees, we can do a simple run of a real meeting
qan> yeah, think that would be useful
Rab> whats going on here
ffe> 1st council meeting
Magica> we havin sexytime
Drosophila> agreed
qan> OK -- I call this example meeting to order.
Rab> is there an agenda somewhere?
qan> Member roll call -- all council members in attendance, please say I (or similar)
qan> I
sleepyjoe> I
ipaD> I
The Red Ace> EYE
WillBy> i
Drosophila> I
Frogsk|n> I
Wazzaaa.NL> I
ffe> pretty much the closest is here http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?44667-First-TW-Council-meeting
M_M God> I
ipaD> please dont call if ur not on council
ffe> but here for the general info http://forums.trenchwars.org/forumdisplay.php?190-Trench-Wars-Council
bellflowers> your not allows to talk so shhh or ray allen will be mad
The Red Ace> I have no idea what this is
ffe> public were given permission to talk in team chat for this meeting
ipaD> please dont speak in public then
qan> 7 members of council. we do not have quorum
The Red Ace> thought this was a joke
DDF <ZH>> Why are there only 7 present for the first meeting?
DDF <ZH>> This isnt a good sign..
Rab> never even heard of it until now
Wazzaaa.NL> some are afkish :/
Frogsk|n> 15 yr old game
qan> many more are, but are not following it
Frogsk|n> thats why
qan> for the purposes of this example, we'll procede as if we do
bellflowers> wheres mango at
qan> I'll read the minutes from last meeting in brief. (read)
bellflowers> you should be on council ddf
DDF <ZH>> lol
qan> let's assume there are no special orders or unfinished business. does anyone have any new (example) business to bring before the council?
Wazzaaa.NL> event scheduling
ipaD> so would i have to go o/
ipaD> ?
ffe> I can't find anything on the forum that describes the role of the council
qan> you'd raise your hand at this point, yes
Wazzaaa.NL> o
Wazzaaa.NL> o/
qan> wazzaaa has the floor
ffe> besides "TW Council is a governing body in Trench Wars set up in addition to the decision-making organization of TW staff." which I don't fully understand
kOG5> it is to train tw jedis
qan> (to motion something, begin with "I motion that" -- and use as exact a wording as you can)
qan> (you will get to describe it in detail later)
Rab> the usual purpose of a council in a game is for staff to get player input into decisions
Wazzaaa.NL> i wanna talk about event scheduling, since the events arent coordinated properly
bellflowers> they just setting up the system today though
Rab> aye
Wazzaaa.NL> they are published/ zoned way too late
qan> that is not a valid motion
Wazzaaa.NL> o?
qan> you'll need to motion something specifically
qan> we don't just talk about things at random. you need to propose something extremely specific. what do you want changed?
Wazzaaa.NL> event scheduling.
qan> what do you want to happen with event scheduling?
Wazzaaa.NL> I motion that event scheduling needs to be coordinated better
Rab> can I oppose the motion?
qan> coordinated better how? do you propose there is some sort of system put in place?
bellflowers> rab 4 concilman!
qan> yes, once he gets a specific motion out
Wazzaaa.NL> i want the event department to make their events published 3 weeks in advance
Rab> unf
ffe> rab: I realize, but what sort of decisions ? I haven't played TW for the past 3 years, and things have changed a lot
Rab> umn, well - I'm familiar with the player council in eve online
ffe> Is the ultimate goal to keep TW alive and prosperous?
qan> OK, so you would say: "I motion that all events are decided and published at least 3 weeks in advance."
M_M God> you cant oppose any motion if you're not on the council Rab :P
Rab> in the case of eve, they use the council to collect opinions from all players - then represent those players at meetings
sleepyjoe> o/
qan> yes, the key point, M_M. and only council members are allowed to speak during meetings. again, this meeting is informal. future ones will not be
bellflowers> got ppl like ffe on council who hasnt played since 2011
Rab> so when the devs say 'we wanna build x feature' and the council say 'er wtf no' that's usually the end of it
ffe> wtf
ffe> I'm not on council bellflower
Frogsk|n> isnt eve online 3d verison of this game?
ffe> you can find a list of the council members here http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?44421-TW-Council-basic-information
qan> sleepy, rather than raising your hand, if you have an objection or point of information, just state what it is. so "point of information" if you want more info on a particular thing
qan> or "point of procedure" if you want to know how something works
qan> (in terms of how the meeting handles it)
M_M God> you surely dont know anything about tw council bellflowers :)
sleepyjoe> i have a question about wazzaaa's motion
Rab> well.. it's a 3d space game, and that's about where the similarity ends
qan> we will be using "point of procedure" a fair bit, because the first few meetings will be rocky until everyone knows what's going on
ffe> haha rab
sleepyjoe> why is it important? get more players to events? prevent missing events?
qan> that will be discussed IF he makes a motion. at the moment no motion is on the table
sleepyjoe> oh
Frogsk|n> lol rab
qan> wazz has the floor, though -- are you going to motion anything, wazz?
qpR> where's my chair?
bellflowers> who are all these wbs on concil gotta add a spider like rab
Rab> I motion that I should be on the council, seeing as I only just heard about the meeting and am attending
sleepyjoe> i dont think that constitutes being elected.
ipaD> rab the members have been elected keep comments relevant please
ffe> I'm predicting the rigidness of the rules of order will be problematic
bellflowers> ill vote for hi
bellflowers> m
Rab> someone elected Spock?
Rab> :D
Wazzaaa.NL> I motion that all events are decided and published at least 3 weeks in advance.
M_M God> You all voted on them
qan> does anyone second the motion?
M_M God> or had the chance but didn't bother
bellflowers> when was this vote i dont understand
ipaD> so if i oppose i just speak out?
ffe> I didn't! I just recently started playing again ;) (but that's why I don't get a vote)
Rab> -shrugs- first time hearing about it
qan> no, we wait for someone to second the motion
qan> if nobody seconds the motion, there is no discussion -- the motion dies on the floor
Left_Eye> the voting took place in public on TW-Poll
Left_Eye> if i'm not mistaken
qan> does anyone second the motion?
qpR> money events 3 weeks in advance
Left_Eye> it was also advertised almost everywhere I think :P
Rab> no
Left_Eye> in zoners, forums, etc.
ThePAP> o/
Frogsk|n> o/
sleepyjoe> i second the motion
cRaZyfUk> fks going on here
qan> again, this is all an example still. we are not actually discussing this as a motion
bellflowers> no1 reads green text
fiS> bell plz
qan> sleepyjoe seconds the motion
qpR> fk
fiS> we want this to move on, council been going on since omnths, now plz
ffe> it wasn't advertised in my textbooks, where I've been looking for the past few years
qan> order, please. keep your discussion to spec chat, and please keep it to what's absolutely needed
Laughter> I think we should invade the imperials. The republic rules
Shaddowknight> need reconnect, brb
Rab> when I log in it auto ?chats .. so green shit scrolls up :)
M_M God> If you're not on the council, don't talk in public chat but only here
ipaD> if you continue to disturb the meeting in public chat you will be silenced
Shaddowknight> ok, nkw whats going on, chat app kept getting glitchy on me
ffe> I suggest temporarily silencing any non-conucilman who talks in public, with a polite explanation
ffe> instead of pleading with them
qan> right now, we are in an example meeting, shadd. wazz has the floor. wazz, you now have 2 minutes to explain your motion
Wazzaaa.NL> wow 2minutes oke, i only see the weekendevents like one day before the weekend
The Red Ace> qan where did you learn how to chair these meetings? study or from Law and Order or some TV show?
M_M God> he's judge judy
The Red Ace> Lol
ipaD> please keep side comments in pm msg
Wazzaaa.NL> so now when ppl are playing ss on tuesday they dont know what the weekendevent is or some cashevent is going on
Rab> pretty sure ppl dont give a shit about events
Rab> generally
Wazzaaa.NL> maybe its better to make a event schedule
Wazzaaa.NL> its example
ffe> i have a feeling there's more to events than that
ffe> and that it takes time to plan it out. or maybe it doesn't
qan> point of information
Rab> in 2001 there was
WillBy> i have a feeling youre correct, ffe
qan> does your motion only pertain to weekend events and cash events?
qan> or all events?
Wazzaaa.NL> all events
qan> OK, understood, thank you, please continue
Laughter> is this free speach now? because I'm totally on Wazzaa's side, I've been requesting this for years lol, go Wazza!
Wazzaaa.NL> so therefor i would like that all events should be known 3 weeks in advance/ published
Wazzaaa.NL> end
Wazzaaa.NL> .
qan> (at this point, the next person to type o/ has stood up and will have the floor)
The Red Ace> does cash mean pubbux or real money events? I didnt play this in ages
WillBy> o/
qan> the chair recognizes willby
qan> willby, you have 2 minutes
WillBy> point of procedure (?)
qan> sure, what do you need to know?
WillBy> oh
WillBy> i guess i was just going to clarifywhat others may have questions about
WillBy> nvm then
ipaD> end with .
qan> point of procedure is if you wish to ask a question of the chair about meeting procedure
WillBy> ok i understand
WillBy> event scheduling, even for the minimal weekend events, is difficult
qan> if you wish to just talk about the motion, this is the time to do it, once you've done o/ and been recognized
WillBy> just to fit todays (starcon) is tough without a surplus of hosters
WillBy> to schedule all the events in TW is beyond the scope of the council or staff
WillBy> .
Laughter> o/
ffe>
qan> laughter is not a member of the council, and is not recognized
ffe> laughter you can't do that you're not on council LOL
Laughter> lol
ipaD> do i have to o/ to second someone else's description/motion?
qan> (at this point, anyone who has an opinion on the issue that hasn't already been expressed should type o/ and take the floor)
Drosophila> o/
qan> the chair recognizes drosophila -- you have 2 minutes
Drosophila> would it be possible to sch events 3wks in advance?
Wazzaaa.NL> so i cant talk anymore, until everyone has talked?
ipaD>
Rab> u just did
Rab> :D
cRaZyfUk> so this is a council meeting?
ffe> question: do we have a comittee for each part of staff, ie. events, moderation, leagues, etc?
ipaD> or if nobody else has an opinion i think
qan> until everyone's had a chance to
ThePAP> crazyfuk, it is, but it's the first one, meetings in the future will be smoother
Drosophila> In other words is this even possible to do?
qan> committees are established on the fly
Rab> I think we all get the point tho... move on to something real?
cRaZyfUk> what role do non-council members play?
ffe> I meant outside of council, sorry
Drosophila> Would one week be more reasonable?
ipaD> @crazyfuk if u have questions u have to address them to a council member
ThePAP> crazy: Mainly as observer as far as I know. It's a bit like politics. And yes, what ipad said.
qan> (no one can answer you of course, in a normal meeting -- but these are questions that are important to answer. if there are questions about whether a motion is possible, it may be smart to put it to committee)
qan> (or to table the motion until the next meeting, if you think a committee is not required, but time should be allowed to deliberate)
Rab> Clealy a staffer can't commit to being present 3 weeks form now
ipaD> yes which is what i was going to bring up
ffe> the point of my question: Willby is the only person who truly knows how to respond to wazaa's motion on the council right now. Are there others that aren't on the council that are in a similar position as willby?
Drosophila> that is all I have to say.
fiS> whats the reason for scheduling THREE weeks in advance?
ipaD> o/
Laughter> o/
fiS> peolpe know theres "bigger" events at the weekend at almost identical time
Drosophila> .
qan> the chair recognizes ipad -- 2 minutes
Laughter> I can respond, I sent wazza some info
ipaD> i acknowledge drosophila's and will's points
ipaD> its kinda impossible for schdeduling for THREE weeks in advance
ipaD> perhaps a bit over one week is possible
Wazzaaa.NL> u can talk here to fis if u want to laughter, just yellow
ipaD> .
ffe> perhaps have a subforum for events, where public can vote on the upcoming week's events?
qan> (at this point, a council member might move to ammend the motion to a different period of time)
WillBy> if you have suggestions, i ask for them in every write up i do :(
ffe> willby, I just started playing again. take everything I say with a grain of salt
WillBy> ok lol
Rab> Someone o/ and say 'how many ppl want events' coz I think the number is about 10
ffe> haven't even registered for forums yet o_O
ipaD> so would one have to say "i move to... blah blah blah"?
fiS> rab, plz
WillBy> its on trenchwars.org
Laughter> an event website would be nice starters, then voting for events, then host points for hosting events, and scheduling them, etc.
WillBy> also being zoned every 2 hours
ffe> ipad, that would be point of procedure i think
Rab> i.e. about 0.0001 of the population
qan> yes, you'd say "I move to amend the motion"
Laughter> a certain amount of attendance should give a person more event points that will allow them to event host events themeselves
Zizzo> wish 0.0001 of ss population would be 10
Rab> ^
qan> er, rather, you'd need to say in particular what you'd want to change it to. so "I move to amend the motion to 'new motion wording'"
wbm> moar pizza tournies
ffe> Rab, I'm guessing if there are not enough people for an event to take place for weeks on end, your message will present itself
ipaD> i move to ammend the motion for events to be adverted around one week in advance
Laughter> event voting and bonuses for attendance would help with events
qan> you'll need to be more specific -- technically that motion can go through, but it's best to be very clear on the wording, or we'll just have to amend it again to be exact
qan> one week exactly? 8 days? 6 days?
ipaD> thats something that i purposely left open
ipaD> ok fine
qan> to give some wiggle room for staff?
qan> that's fine
ipaD> yes
ipaD> but roughly a week
qan> but it's just not very strongly-binding. open to interpretation, still, that's fine. OK, ipad has moved to amend
WillBy> o/
qan> does anyone second the motion?
WillBy> i second
qan> willby seconds the motion
Laughter> is there a place to go to read up on events now?
qan> now -- this is a subsidiary motion, a motion ABOUT another motion
Rab> it would, but improving events doesnt improve the zone, it's an antipattern
hulk> wut time beam tw council
bellflowers> .?go events
qan> we can debate it if anyone wishes to
ipaD> great big mouth beam here
beam> should just allow me to be the king
qan> does anyone wish to discuss the amendment, or shall we put it to a vote?
not u> can greens fc be put back into elim, dds, jds ect. Why did they take them out?
Wazzaaa.NL> vote
ipaD> i move for it to be on vote
Drosophila> 2nd
beam> turn this council into a dictatorship
WAR> RIOT?
WillBy> o/
hulk> where is the gr8 exalt
hulk> guy writing books on forums n doesn't even show to meeting
beam> does anyone know what this 'qan' guy is talking about
Laughter> hmm... lol
Wazzaaa.NL> why is willby doing o/
qan> there is no more discussion, so we are ready to vote on the question
beam> zone been goin downhill ever since he came around
WillBy> trying to discuss :/
qan> ah, OK, sorry willby
bellflowers> they want to choose events weeks prior to hosting them
qan> willby wishes to discuss the amendment. chair recognizes, you have 2 minutes
Wazzaaa.NL> you want to discuss about the 1 week motion?
WillBy> a quick note on implementation of this motion
qan> willby has the floor
beam> for weekend event?
bellflowers> for all events
hulk> that is so stupid
not u> thats a good idea
beam> why
hulk> no one even plays those shitty events
not u> w.e
Rab> well, it's an example motion so can't tell if srs. but they say book 3 weeks ahead
ipaD> no it been changed rab
qan> (remember, this is discussing the amendment, not the original motion)
WillBy> weekend event scheduling will be possible 1 week in advance as soon as staff is large enough
hulk> wut time we bring back pure basing in pub
ipaD> please reduce side comments to yellow chat
hulk> rude
not u> im still pissed they took greens out years ago
WillBy> for now, events staff simply isnt active enough to have hosts available and ready for scheduling a week in advance
Laughter> sounds like the main problem is attendance, all other motions revolve around attendance
Laughter> even this council
WillBy> so we want an implementation deadline
hulk> hosting isnt the problem in the zone
hulk> l0l
hulk> those events were fun u know when i was like 13 playing this game
WillBy> currently, and no offence to our others, the only weekend event hosters are field and i
WillBy> so we need to increase that number some
beam> i was staff for a while and 100% of my hosting was spontaneous
Rab> I motion that ppl only make motions when they're super cereal - as this process takes so fkin long
beam> if i was told what to host and when id have hosted 0 events
WillBy> can i change the motion again?
qan> this is an example motion -- not binding
beam> that takes all the fun out of it
WillBy> to clarify it?
WillBy> point of procedure* ^^
qan> let me see, one sec. it might be easier just to vote on this motion first, heh
WAR> this is retarded
beam> i dont play events anyway though so i dont really care
WAR> put lefteye in charge of sysop
WAR> get rid of u fuks
qan> yes, you can amend it
qan> move to amend
WillBy> ok
Rab> or not
hulk> wut time we talk about next league
hulk> ?
M_M God> put in a motion for that war, oh wait you're not on council
ipaD> lol
WillBy> i move to amend the motion to state "Weekend events will be planned with 1 week (at least 6 days) in advance."
WillBy> .
qan> anyone second?
Laughter> brilliant idea, why not have player usages and other stats posted on the event news letter as you join the site, it would give people a goal to strive for
ThePAP> I second.
M_M God> y
qan> thepap seconds
beam> arent the weekend events alread planned a week in advance
hulk> ?
beam> if not whoever is in charge of that is an idiot
qan> does anyone wish to discuss this new motion, or are we ready to vote?
Rab> zone already has a leaderboard, it's called twd
Laughter> like #1 player of the site
hulk>
beam> already*
Rab> and there's noobpub stats too
hulk> ur gona make zidanes ego blow up
qan> (beam, this meeting is informal, but please keep it to spec chat)
Laughter> site based ranking not just squad
WAR> good luck with tw council fail
hulk> fkn beam
ipaD> i move to vote on most recently amended motion
WAR> u guys are going plcaes
WAR> gg
Rab> u dont have the stats to rank players properly
Rab> losing battle
beam> i have no idea whats going on
Rab> game is a team game
qpR> be quiet beam
beam> bunch of newbies are typing bout nonsense
Rab> ranking teams is correct
WAR> you are correct beam
qpR> motion: beam is a fgt
qan> no discussion. we vote -- all in favor of willby's amendment: Weekend events will be planned with 1 week (at least 6 days) in advance.", raise your hand o/
qan> o/
ThePAP> o/
Drosophila> o/
hulk> \o
Wazzaaa.NL> o/
WillBy> o/
sleepyjoe> o/
ipaD> o/
beam> good vote hulk
WAR> apparently this joke will make subspace get a popution of 1000
Laughter> unfortunately, that will fail without attendance
qpR> _o
hulk> ye
hulk> am contributing
Left_Eye> o/
qpR> me2
Laughter> as willby pointed out
qpR> me pretending to b da 1 guy who opposes
Rab> yeh, no quorum gg
qan> 8 for. all opposed? (you may also abstain)
hulk> unless u guys do weekend events for money
hulk> no1 is going to play that shit
hulk> fyi
qan> none oppose. the amendment passes
Rab> lie
beam> whos in charge of the weekend events
WillBy> i am
qan> as this motion amends the previous motion, which was also an amendment, we don't need to vote on whether it amends the original motion
beam> but ur a pubber
qan> does anyone wish to discuss the motion?
hulk> are u guys going 2 talk about anything important
WillBy> the motion that just passed?
WAR> lol what does this council actually do?
qan> no, the one we're now on. we voted on AMENDING the motion :>
beam> they used to plan those weekend events a month ahead of time
qan> we're now on the motion itself
WillBy> oh...
beam> idk why u need a meeting to plan a week
hulk> they get to vote i think
WAR> youre voting on shitty events for the weekend???????? when you should be getting the population up??
WillBy> lol
Laughter> I hate having to look through websites to find stats, the event bulletin would be nice to just see who currently has the highest rank in pub, twd, wbduel, base, and javduel, etc.
qan> (that's why it's good to get the wording right the first time -- but amending is a big part of the process)
Rab> they're learning the process, this events thing is an example
qan> if no-one wishes to discuss the motion, I move to table the motion
hulk> events will not increase the population
M_M God> We're working on something like that for when you enter pub, Laughter
Rab> yaya we all know this
Laughter> yah, attendance should be the primary focus of the council though
hulk> same fkn people play this game every day
Rab> events = antipattern
beam> the council is comprised of pub newbies
ipaD> big weak here
beam> and ppl who go 3-20 in twld finals
qan> does anyone second the motion? (I am moving to table it because we do not have enough information to know it's feasible)
Weak> 2-12
fiS> yeah, these pubbers had more votes than you beam =)
WAR> i motion to slit your wrists
Left_Eye> I second.
hulk> demand a revote for beamir
qan> left_eye seconds
Rab> LOL
bellflowers> events take away players from public making the players from public leave because of low pop
beam> im not popular in pub 0
hulk> no
hulk> events don't do anything
General Pepe> is this some event?
Rab> pub+twd = the future of tw
qan> the motion is now on the table. if it is not removed from the table by the end of the next meeting, the motion will die -- it will be covered in the "unfinished business" part of the meeting
Rab> nothing elkse
Laughter> attendance is the solution to all, it should be the focus of most of these meetings
Rab> said this ~3 yrs ago]
qan> oops. I'm sorry :P
qan> getting very ahead of myself
hulk> attendance?
ThePAP> General: Nope, it's an example/practice/informal meeting of tw council.
General Pepe> aa
qan> all those in favor of tabling the motion, raise your hand?
qan> o/
bellflowers> beam in 4 spock
Laughter> getting more people into the game
ThePAP> o/
ipaD> o/
hulk> its the same people that play this game every day
Drosophila> o/
WAR> going to raise my hand into your ass qan
hulk> not getting any new people
qan> (keep it to spec please)
Laughter> new people should be the focus though and keeping them
hulk> guys are still hosting go zombies after 15 years
hulk> l0l
WillBy> o/
qan> 5 in favor. all opposed?
Rab> new ppl would stay if it was clear what they're supposed to do
Laughter> yeah, that's the problem
sleepyjoe> tabling it just means we move on? great
sleepyjoe> o/
Laughter> there is no goal
hulk> new people don't even know how to change arenas
Rab> they're supposed to pub for a week then find a twd squad
hulk> they log in and play our shitty fucking pub
qan> is that a vote in favor? yes, it means we move on
qan> and deal with it next meeting, or later in this meeting
hulk> get spawned and die to levi every other second
hulk> and alt f4
qan> if someone moves to take it from the table
Murder> the evil council
hulk> welcum
qan> I don't think we had a majority -- it's hard to tell, because now weak and others who weren't here at the start have arrived
Murder> welcum
qan> but let's assume it passed for the sake of this example meeting being useful
beam> this is really exciting
Laughter> the other problem is old folks don't like change
qan> the motion is laid on the table for the time being
beam> im happy the council of pubbers is taking an hour to decide that willby can do his job
qan> does anyone have any other business they'd like to bring before the council?
hulk> these changes don't effect the "old folks"
Laughter> for example, if squad names became rank names and those under a given rank would be together, that would give a goal to a lot of people
qan> this is all non-binding. an example meeting
Rab> security
hulk> what time we talk about leagues
Laughter> but, the squad owners would never give up their squads for an actual ranking system
hulk> squad ranking system
hulk> so u want us to play pub
hulk> and rank
hulk> ?
Rab> tw has tw dev - but is there a dev for security
Weak> should reset some old names
Weak> x)
hulk> ye cud use name "Weak"
Weak> cud use name exquisite
Weak> welcum
Drosophila> do we want to talk about scheduling future meetings now?
Laughter> no, for example, everyone starts out in one squad and then move up to other squads as a goal, some general goal would be great
M_M God> thats only possible if we get our own biller (move away from SSC) or get more control on the current biller Weak
hulk> ya right
Weak> ah, forgot about that
qan> that's an actual question we should put to an actual council. that can be our first real item of business, if you'd like
hulk> the current billing ops are gay as fuck
Laughter> this game has very loose goals
Rab> can a council member plz motion that tw dev appoint a security expert?
hulk> they are all 4o x10
qan> if everyone is fairly comfortable with how this will work
Left_Eye> well the other situation is to move away with SSC as it is
Left_Eye> so have everyone move
Left_Eye> not just TW
hulk> how come no1 from tw is a billing op
qan> and we can get real business done when the chats are locked :P
Weak> that seems like it could take a lot of time
Laughter> people are not focused and get lost, all the servers should be merged for example
sleepyjoe> based on this meeting there are at least 30 interested people, maybe 20 non-council, should we allow a mechanism for recording the opinion of non-council members during votes? is there something for that in your rules?
hulk> its all useless fgts that play in t3 gauntlet
Weak> plus, if it is not a smooth move, tw will probably lose more members
hulk> with a population of 1 person
Weak> i agree with you sleepy
qan> typically only members of the meeting are allowed in a meeting. you can bring in an expert testimony, but you should plan it in advance
ThePAP> Rab, a security expert in which way? Against in-game hacking/abusing, or attacks on the server, or something else
Rab> tbh if you want to lock it down, do it in private
Weak> ^
hulk> yo we ever talking about leagues
hulk> ?
sleepyjoe> oh, i thought it was going to be public with a bot moderating
Laughter> I didn't join the council, because the only problem I'm interested in is getting attendance
Rab> primarily I'm thinking database
qan> it's public, so that all can still see it happening. I'd also like for non-council to be on their own freq, so they can discuss
Laughter> nothing is worse than going into a game with 5 people
Weak> we should still have the public opinion via votes to see where the non members stand as a majority, requiring a certain number of votes to really take into consideration (ie: 50 votes minimum on an issue instead of just one where 5 ppl vote)
qan> generally, any motion you want to be seriously considered at a meeting you need to have on the agenda, though. so if you are soliciting opinions, you'll have all the info you need BEFORE the meeting starts
ThePAP> Ok, thanks.
Weak> so
Weak> also
bellflowers> "non-council to be on their own freq"
Weak> are there any plans for the next league/draft/twl?
qan> if you'd like, you can make a motion to amend the rules of procedure the meeting has adopted, but I don't think it's a wise move
bellflowers> means ur opinion dosent matter
Weak> we shouldn't amend it quite yet
Weak> unless the old way fails hard
qan> motions brought to council should be on the agenda, and should be able to be discussed ahead of time. most serious motions brought up on the fly will be put to committee or tabled.
qan> (at least, that's how it works in most organizations)
sleepyjoe> name one organization qan!
qan> a vote on the fly isn't very meaningful
Drosophila> ^
qan> heh :) why one in particular?
qan> most corporations, most governments. you put something on the agenda if you want it to be seriously considered
Laughter> oh well, I'll know if the council has done something based on attendance, whatever fis did that one weekend to boost attendance was awsome
Rab> +1 this is standard practice
qan> if it's a small motion, you can try your luck with it the day of the meeting, but it's not considered smart
beam> is qan the head of the council
M_M God> chairman
beam> guy is taking charge of this meeting
Laughter> ok, time to go
M_M God> thats usually what they do yes
Weak> this may be a stretch, but if there is something that needs to be discussed, put it on forums or such, have people vote if they want it to be brought up, and if it gets majority vote (Certain % required obviously), we (tw council) can schedule it on
Weak> agenda
beam> isnt he staff
Rab> who cares
qan> chairman's responsibility is to make sure the rules of the meeting are adhered to. this meeting is basically 1 big "point of procedure"
Weak> so the meetings flow
sleepyjoe> qan, i see what you're saying - these rules are used in stockholder meetings at corporations, and in parliamentary things
sleepyjoe> but note that the government itself, and the corporation itself take action outside of those meetings.
qan> I'd say that putting it on the agenda is enough. if you're serious about a motion and put it on the agenda, it can be dealt with well enough in the meeting itself
sleepyjoe> those meetings are to adjust the laws and shit... that's what we do?
qan> staff will act outside of this meeting as well, yeah
sleepyjoe> ok got it
qan> we're working on policy issues mostly, yes
Wazzaaa.NL> where can i find this agenda
sleepyjoe> ya, how do we keep up to date on agenda and stuff?
qan> how that policy is introduced is up to staff (and, hopefully, players)
Drosophila> typically the chair will post a agenda before the meeting,
sleepyjoe> messagebot isn't really that great.
sleepyjoe> to get something ont he agenda submit it to qan?
qan> contact me here or on forums to add items to the agenda, and I'll add them as they come in
Drosophila> will you post the agenda on the forums?
qan> you can also simply message the twcouncil channel on messagebot. I'll have to make sure everyone's able to do that. should be !message twcouncil:msg
qan> yes, the agenda will be posted on the forums. I'm working with Shadd to get the Council forums restructured a bit
qan> it'll be a little on the rough side for the first few meetings -- I think we all expect that
Drosophila> I think this is a good start.
qan> but once we get into the swing of it, I think we can use this pretty effectively.
beam> u guys ever gna use that donation money
Drosophila> I come back to scheduling the next meeting. What freq should we have the meeting? 1 per month?
fiS> i already spent it on a cruise sorry bro
hulk> are we ever going 2 talk about leagues
hulk> am waiting
qan> usually it's as often as business warrants -- if you build up too much business for 1 meeting, you can't work through it all
qan> not enough and it feels like a waste of time
beam> they wont talk about anything that matters
beam> its the same crap every meeting with staff
WillBy> this is mostly just a meeting to establish how we run it
hulk> o
qan> this meeting is literally just for procedure. and the reason we're establishing REAL procedure is so that it isn't the same as every other meeting
WillBy> we dont have committees formed yet
hulk> could have told me many year ago
hulk> ty
M_M God> this is mostly about a pub council
beam> it is
beam> pub
M_M God> not staff putting in motions
hulk> u guys didnt even talk about pub
M_M God> a player council then
qan> public, he means, not public arena
beam> this council aside
beam> cuz its garbage
hulk> u guys need to change pub
hulk> that shit is unplayable
beam> staff needs more transparency
M_M God> what do you want to know? lol
beam> dunno why u guys are so secretive about leagues
fiS> whats up beam
qan> I'd like to run the first true meeting fairly soon from now, while procedure is still fresh in everyone's mind
hulk> i dun think any1 wants to run twdt even if we were to have one
beam> make a schedule
Drosophila> when are you suggesting?
beam> for leagues
Weak> twdt is honestly probably the funnest league
qan> we could submit a series of dates, as we did for this one, but a larger variety?
Weak> but you're right hulk, all depends on attendance, as everything odes
qan> I assume weekends are the only way we can all be here, as we're from different parts of the world
Weak> and I can't spell today
qan> is that roughly true for everyone? can we agree on adhering to a meeting date that works for the largest number of people, sometime between... let's say, 2 weeks from now and 4 weeks from now?
qan> (and on the weekend)
qan> that will give us a time to develop a real agenda
WillBy> i second ^^ :p
Drosophila> that sounds good
Weak> i concur
qan> OK, I will get that out ASAP, then
qan> is there anything else anyone would like to discuss -- questions, clarifications, etc? this will be the last time a council meeting is informal, so it's easier now than saying "point of procedure" and interrupting future meetings
qan> the agenda and minutes will be posted on forums
Mr. Racist> agenda: make everyone sysop
qan> talking to players (and in the case of staff members, staff) whom you represent about any issues you want to bring to council is strongly advised
beam> pretty sure that even staff has no idea what league is next
Rab> personally I'd only have twd
qan> but, also remember that we can retract a motion as needed. so it's not the end of the world if we screw up a bit :>
beam> there has to be another league of some kind eventually
Rab> why
Weak> if we didn't have twl/twdt I probably wouldn't even care to log on as much
Rab> bonus :P
beam>
qan> OK, if there's no other discussion, I move to adjourn
Weak> i'm not the only one that feels that way
Weak> i second
beam> because theres no competition without leagues
qan> weak seconds. all in favor?
qan> o/
Rab> twd is competition
ThePAP> o/
beam> all the good players go inactive during offseason
WillBy> o/
Wazzaaa.NL> o/
Rab> twl is just a copy of twd
beam> theres no competition in twd
Weak> \o/
Weak> twl at least rewards soemthing
qan> all opposed?
Weak> even if it's a silly medal
Drosophila> o/
Rab> move medals to twd
Rab> solved
Acido> o/
Weak> for whta
Weak> how would you offer medals in twd
beam> the medals dont matter
Weak> I'm just saying, it's a different league
Drosophila> lol adjourn
Weak> people view it differently
qan> 4-1, motion passes. the meeting is adjourned
ffe> current motion?
ffe> oh
ffe> LOL
beam> twl is enjoyable because all of the best players participate
Rab> point is, if u can get ppl to be active regularly - instead of once a year
beam> in twdd i play terrible newbies like tripin and jebass
Weak> and i like twdt because you can't really stack squads and you don't choose your team
Rab> u can focus the whole zone on twd
WillBy> i suggest we ?go starcon next
Weak> it gives you an idea to see who s teps up and how they play with ppl they may not normally team with
Rab> if u interrupt twd for twl for those ppl who arent even active
WillBy> as it is the event scheduled to take place in... 7 minutes
MrWhippy> Fuck the council. I call for democracy
qan> talk to council members about putting motions on the agenda for the next meeting