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  • That took a while to read, but that's what I'd expected. Sorry for being inactive. I'll promise this won't be a regular occurance. I enjoyed playing in the last one and this one is already gearing up to be good as well. I'll put what I've learned last game into this game.

    My reasoning behind my 'throwaway' vote is simple. There wasn't a clear vote leader back when I voted and I wanted to pick someone who was most likely to survive day 1, because if I had picked either willby, rodney, or ixt I wouldn't have been able to unvote in time. It's also no surprise to me that voting for a safe player looks scummy but keep in mind that it is all after the fact. There were only two votes on rodney and 1 on ixt. I would've said ixt looked the most scummy of the two back then but that is mostly due to his play style, if you can call it that. Willby was the vote leader at the time with 2-3 joke votes. The tie is upsetting, but I couldn't have predicted this and hoped others would make the right decisions.

    Afaik rodney had only posted a couple of joke votes at the start, but for some reason actually got picked up as possible scum when there was no reason for it. Exalt grabbed at everything to get some early day 1 feelings, which might have swayed a couple of people. I've no reasons to believe either rodney or willby are scum at that point based on their posts. I can't ever be sure about ixt however...

    undercut stands out for his weird vote if you don't take his mention of irl stuff into account, but even when taking it into account it doesn't really explain why he waited with voting that long. he made 3-4 posts before actually picking and having it result in a no lynch. No 1 scum pick imo.

    thepaul also posted a few times without picking either ixt or rodney, and he mentioned going for a no lynch earlier. He could have broken the tie and was somewhat convinced by exalt a no lynch d1 would be bad for town. No 2 scum pick.

    voth going for undercut creating the scenario we are left with now has to be questioned. it was that moment tho that undercut suddenly decided to make his vote, after voth unvoted. he said a no lynch wasn't what he had intended, but he surely must have had enough time to switch back to either ixt or rodney after seeing no one going for undercut. Scum pick no 3.

    I'll put down ixt as pick no 4, voth 'put on pressure' to get ixt to talk and unvoting later could also mean they are teamed up, but it seems very unlikely. some defend ixt by saying he is new, but he said before that he's played mafia irl a few times. I would just call it bad at this point. no real benefit to either town or mafia.

    midoent has the potential to be 'ixt the 2nd' with his voting and unvoting early on. at least he is more active compared to the last game. not sure if that's a good thing. potential scum, but less likely than the previous 4 listed above.

    soilderz has been a bit quiet, voted rodney, and now seems convinced rodney is defending himself. if this is all we have to go by I think either one of them is scum or just two townies fighting D1.

    Exalt seems to be our personal mafia library for strategy and a source of status updates. If he is mafia, we are screwed, as he is also the best bet to win as town imo. I have to admit I haven't read all you said because it about 30-40% of all text up to this point. I'm unsure of his allegiance, but he seems pro town at the moment as I find myself agreeing with most of what he has said so far.

    I kinda want to put field in the same boat as exalt for now.

    willby survived the initial bandwagon of joke votes and has been a bit quiet afterwards, mostly defending his vote on ixt. he does make a valid point about ixt's role claim, but that can also be put in the erratic play style bucket. would an insane townie equal scum?

    zeebu said he was going to be less active in the signup thread and I'll give him some slack this time since I was in a similar situation myself. Would expect more info during the week.

    missa is our newest player and has yet to contribute anything of value which would indicate either town or scum.

    A bit of a long read, but I had to make it up for being inactive.

    tl;dr

    shortlist: undercut, thepaul, voth, ixt, midoent, soilderz/rodney

    Comment


    • Originally posted by BIET View Post
      That took a while to read, but that's what I'd expected. Sorry for being inactive. I'll promise this won't be a regular occurance. I enjoyed playing in the last one and this one is already gearing up to be good as well. I'll put what I've learned last game into this game.

      My reasoning behind my 'throwaway' vote is simple. There wasn't a clear vote leader back when I voted and I wanted to pick someone who was most likely to survive day 1, because if I had picked either willby, rodney, or ixt I wouldn't have been able to unvote in time. It's also no surprise to me that voting for a safe player looks scummy but keep in mind that it is all after the fact. There were only two votes on rodney and 1 on ixt. I would've said ixt looked the most scummy of the two back then but that is mostly due to his play style, if you can call it that. Willby was the vote leader at the time with 2-3 joke votes. The tie is upsetting, but I couldn't have predicted this and hoped others would make the right decisions.

      Afaik rodney had only posted a couple of joke votes at the start, but for some reason actually got picked up as possible scum when there was no reason for it. Exalt grabbed at everything to get some early day 1 feelings, which might have swayed a couple of people. I've no reasons to believe either rodney or willby are scum at that point based on their posts. I can't ever be sure about ixt however...

      undercut stands out for his weird vote if you don't take his mention of irl stuff into account, but even when taking it into account it doesn't really explain why he waited with voting that long. he made 3-4 posts before actually picking and having it result in a no lynch. No 1 scum pick imo.

      thepaul also posted a few times without picking either ixt or rodney, and he mentioned going for a no lynch earlier. He could have broken the tie and was somewhat convinced by exalt a no lynch d1 would be bad for town. No 2 scum pick.

      voth going for undercut creating the scenario we are left with now has to be questioned. it was that moment tho that undercut suddenly decided to make his vote, after voth unvoted. he said a no lynch wasn't what he had intended, but he surely must have had enough time to switch back to either ixt or rodney after seeing no one going for undercut. Scum pick no 3.

      I'll put down ixt as pick no 4, voth 'put on pressure' to get ixt to talk and unvoting later could also mean they are teamed up, but it seems very unlikely. some defend ixt by saying he is new, but he said before that he's played mafia irl a few times. I would just call it bad at this point. no real benefit to either town or mafia.

      midoent has the potential to be 'ixt the 2nd' with his voting and unvoting early on. at least he is more active compared to the last game. not sure if that's a good thing. potential scum, but less likely than the previous 4 listed above.

      soilderz has been a bit quiet, voted rodney, and now seems convinced rodney is defending himself. if this is all we have to go by I think either one of them is scum or just two townies fighting D1.

      Exalt seems to be our personal mafia library for strategy and a source of status updates. If he is mafia, we are screwed, as he is also the best bet to win as town imo. I have to admit I haven't read all you said because it about 30-40% of all text up to this point. I'm unsure of his allegiance, but he seems pro town at the moment as I find myself agreeing with most of what he has said so far.

      I kinda want to put field in the same boat as exalt for now.

      willby survived the initial bandwagon of joke votes and has been a bit quiet afterwards, mostly defending his vote on ixt. he does make a valid point about ixt's role claim, but that can also be put in the erratic play style bucket. would an insane townie equal scum?

      zeebu said he was going to be less active in the signup thread and I'll give him some slack this time since I was in a similar situation myself. Would expect more info during the week.

      missa is our newest player and has yet to contribute anything of value which would indicate either town or scum.

      A bit of a long read, but I had to make it up for being inactive.

      tl;dr

      shortlist: undercut, thepaul, voth, ixt, midoent, soilderz/rodney
      did I say irl? Think I said audio version with real people voices, but never irl. And then again, that was werewolf which has variations to mafia. Last game was my very first mafia game played.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BIET View Post
        That took a while to read, but that's what I'd expected. Sorry for being inactive. I'll promise this won't be a regular occurance. I enjoyed playing in the last one and this one is already gearing up to be good as well. I'll put what I've learned last game into this game.

        My reasoning behind my 'throwaway' vote is simple. There wasn't a clear vote leader back when I voted and I wanted to pick someone who was most likely to survive day 1, because if I had picked either willby, rodney, or ixt I wouldn't have been able to unvote in time. It's also no surprise to me that voting for a safe player looks scummy but keep in mind that it is all after the fact. There were only two votes on rodney and 1 on ixt. I would've said ixt looked the most scummy of the two back then but that is mostly due to his play style, if you can call it that. Willby was the vote leader at the time with 2-3 joke votes. The tie is upsetting, but I couldn't have predicted this and hoped others would make the right decisions.

        Afaik rodney had only posted a couple of joke votes at the start, but for some reason actually got picked up as possible scum when there was no reason for it. Exalt grabbed at everything to get some early day 1 feelings, which might have swayed a couple of people. I've no reasons to believe either rodney or willby are scum at that point based on their posts. I can't ever be sure about ixt however...

        undercut stands out for his weird vote if you don't take his mention of irl stuff into account, but even when taking it into account it doesn't really explain why he waited with voting that long. he made 3-4 posts before actually picking and having it result in a no lynch. No 1 scum pick imo.

        thepaul also posted a few times without picking either ixt or rodney, and he mentioned going for a no lynch earlier. He could have broken the tie and was somewhat convinced by exalt a no lynch d1 would be bad for town. No 2 scum pick.

        voth going for undercut creating the scenario we are left with now has to be questioned. it was that moment tho that undercut suddenly decided to make his vote, after voth unvoted. he said a no lynch wasn't what he had intended, but he surely must have had enough time to switch back to either ixt or rodney after seeing no one going for undercut. Scum pick no 3.

        I'll put down ixt as pick no 4, voth 'put on pressure' to get ixt to talk and unvoting later could also mean they are teamed up, but it seems very unlikely. some defend ixt by saying he is new, but he said before that he's played mafia irl a few times. I would just call it bad at this point. no real benefit to either town or mafia.

        midoent has the potential to be 'ixt the 2nd' with his voting and unvoting early on. at least he is more active compared to the last game. not sure if that's a good thing. potential scum, but less likely than the previous 4 listed above.

        soilderz has been a bit quiet, voted rodney, and now seems convinced rodney is defending himself. if this is all we have to go by I think either one of them is scum or just two townies fighting D1.

        Exalt seems to be our personal mafia library for strategy and a source of status updates. If he is mafia, we are screwed, as he is also the best bet to win as town imo. I have to admit I haven't read all you said because it about 30-40% of all text up to this point. I'm unsure of his allegiance, but he seems pro town at the moment as I find myself agreeing with most of what he has said so far.

        I kinda want to put field in the same boat as exalt for now.

        willby survived the initial bandwagon of joke votes and has been a bit quiet afterwards, mostly defending his vote on ixt. he does make a valid point about ixt's role claim, but that can also be put in the erratic play style bucket. would an insane townie equal scum?

        zeebu said he was going to be less active in the signup thread and I'll give him some slack this time since I was in a similar situation myself. Would expect more info during the week.

        missa is our newest player and has yet to contribute anything of value which would indicate either town or scum.

        A bit of a long read, but I had to make it up for being inactive.

        tl;dr

        shortlist: undercut, thepaul, voth, ixt, midoent, soilderz/rodney
        sorry i should have posted this alongside the last post to make it less tedious reading. im very confused here. u clearly state u have no reason to suspect rodney due to his tone of posting, but in the shorthand version of the list u suspect u throw him back into the mix? this is 100% contradictory but not gonna say ur mafia because of that, could be perhaps a lapse in thought when u were writing all of this down. but it IS a flaw in ur list

        Comment


        • i read that short paragraph embedded regarding soilderz and rodney, but still rings a question if u think rodney is pro town from what developed but now second guessing yourself? dunno

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ixt View Post

            sorry i should have posted this alongside the last post to make it less tedious reading. im very confused here. u clearly state u have no reason to suspect rodney due to his tone of posting, but in the shorthand version of the list u suspect u throw him back into the mix? this is 100% contradictory but not gonna say ur mafia because of that, could be perhaps a lapse in thought when u were writing all of this down. but it IS a flaw in ur list
            I list the confrontation between soilderz and rodney later, here: "soilderz has been a bit quiet, voted rodney, and now seems convinced rodney is defending himself. if this is all we have to go by I think either one of them is scum or just two townies fighting D1.". The earlier remark was that I didn't see why rodney got all the downvotes before he posted again, besides inactivity perhaps. sort of my thoughts up to that point and not based on all the information currently. Everything after that bit is based on all we 'know' now.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ixt View Post

              did I say irl? Think I said audio version with real people voices, but never irl. And then again, that was werewolf which has variations to mafia. Last game was my very first mafia game played.
              Ah, my bad. It still makes you more familiar with the strategies a normal player would, and an audio version would be more like this version compared to one irl.

              Comment


              • I do find it funny that I am the only person I can definitively recall come out saying that I was going to push a no-lynch scenario if possible, and I said that immediately. That leaves 12 of you, the majority of which called my move scummy and said that we have to pursue a lynch day 1. There were 2 people high on the scum list, Rodney and ixt, and the other 10 of you pursued a no-lynch scenario despite saying you would do the opposite. I did what I said and completely stayed out of it, but I'm scum, while people like Exalt said that no matter what a no-lynch scenario is pro-mafia, and then pursued a no-lynch scenario themselves?

                There are sides forming and a lot of information to be gained from day 1, if you think otherwise, you're not paying attention. Especially coming from Exalt. He says no lynch is always in favor of mafia no matter what, and then puts a vote on Rodney and doesn't budge, despite the clear cut chance to get a lynch on ixt and get the information he's been calling for. He says if Ixt is scum, why doesn't his mafia tell him to cool it with his "role claims" and start diverting attention, instead of attracting it. Then, ixt has a conference via private message in game with exalt, changes his vote to Rodney (pursing a no lynch scenario might I add), and stops posting walls of gibberish roleclaims. Exalt, if you believe that people need to make up for day 1 actions next day phase, then it seems to me that we should expect quite a lot out of you, maybe more so than anyone else.

                tl;dr 1 person did what they said they were going to do right off the bat, ~10 people did otherwise (hard to tell based on some people's inactivity)
                Peyton Manning

                Originally posted by Vatican Assassin
                all stats should be removed except for the stat of how many times mattey can go fuck himself which I would expect should be rather high
                JAMAL> didn't think there was a worse shark than midoent but the_paul takes it

                Comment


                • and u have contributed more thoughts than he has? looks like ur trying to vs people here, EVEN THOUGH u did not vote for either rodney or myself, doessnt make yourself clear either. gonna wait to see what exalt's response is to this "interesting post" by paul

                  Comment


                  • and what do u have to say in response tho those people who have u on their "potential" scum list? u do realize ur name is on a few, while i seem to miss exalt's name on any (of course it doesn't clear exalt's name) but of course at this phase he would seem more likely to have the town's best interested compared to yourself

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ixt View Post
                      and u have contributed more thoughts than he has? looks like ur trying to vs people here, EVEN THOUGH u did not vote for either rodney or myself, doessnt make yourself clear either. gonna wait to see what exalt's response is to this "interesting post" by paul
                      I wasn't really measuring anything in terms of contribution, but sure, I probably have. I told everyone right off the top what I was going to do, and I did it. I didn't interfere with any other plan, I did what I was going to do. Exalt wrote a very long, well thought out piece that disagreed with me, which is fine. Nothing wrong with disagreeing. However, I did exactly what I said I was going to do, and Exalt did exactly what he criticized me for doing, and has received absolutely no push back for it. You don't find that suspicious in the least?

                      Originally posted by Exalt View Post

                      I don't find your reasoning scummy, but I disagree with it in terms of the Day 1 No Lynch idea. It's fundamentally the wrong way to play imo for a variety of reasons.

                      Other reasons why No Lynching is always bad outside of a Mislynch & Lose scenario:

                      1. Lynching can kill scum. Scum kills do not kill scum. More lynching = more scum deaths. Not lynching = less scum deaths.

                      2. If you don't lynch someone Day 1, you cannot analyze the wagons Day 2. Wagons/Lynches and where people vote during a lynch give information necessary to scum hunting. No Lynches give zero information in that regard while giving scum a free kill at night. You essentially lose a townie for zero gain.

                      3. The only reason I can think of for anyone to want a Day 1 No Lynch, aside from their faulty math, is because they generally think something like "the Cop will eventually save us, and the game doesn't even start until like Day 3 when they find a guilty." Sure, that may happen, but you're placing blind trust on a random person who may or may not be good at being the Cop. Also, what if that Cop gets NK'd immediately Night 1 while you No Lynched and placed the entire game on the hopes that they save the town instead? Also, even with a mislynch, one less player for the Cop to potentially investigate means a higher % chance for them to correctly investigate scum.

                      6. Without a Day 1 lynch giving any information, and assuming a Town PR like the Cop doesn't claim, the Day 2 lynch after a Day 1 No Lynch is just as random and blind as a Day 1 lynch, with near zero differences except one less townie and fewer allowed mislynches before game over.

                      7. A Day 1 mislynch at the very least allows town to move past specific reads they had from the start of the game, because they are proven right or wrong based on what their Day 1 lynch flips. It allows the game to move past the initial phase of the game. A Day 1 No Lynch just makes town repeat the exact same arguments and exact same reads they had on Day 1 with little to no change, meaning the Day 2 lynch will likely be the same person who would've otherwise been lynched Day 1.


                      I'm sure I can think of more reasons, but that's my stance on the issue, and it's pretty strong. I'll always say a Day 1 No Lynch is a terrible move for town to make in nearly every situation. There is a time and a place for No Lynches, but it's almost never on Day 1.

                      So here is the post Exalt wrote (I omitted a few parts because it's long), which led to several people being suspicious of me. Fine, no big deal to me. But the entire point of his post is that day 1 no lynches almost always favor the scum, regardless of the outcome. Having said that, and specifically saying it's even worth it to mis-lynch a townie day 1 (which I disagreed with in my post), why did he not switch his vote onto you to do what he said, since it's worth it. Your "role claim" is a pseudo power role from what I can tell from your hints, why didn't he do what he said and lynch you so that there can be information out there for day 2? What is with his blind allegiance to you? Your role claim sounds invented to me, and either way its only marginally useful to town if its true. Even if you are telling the truth, outside of an illegal screenshot of your role, how could you have possible convinced Exalt that you were coming to him not knowing his role, to convince him of your role, without having to prove anything to each other, and he would have bought it? You're telling me that scenario is more plausible, to the point of Exalt backtracking on what he spent the first 3 pages saying, than the thought that you 2 are on the same side and already know each other's roles? I am unconvinced of Exalt but quite suspicious, I'm strongly leaning towards the fact that you are not what you say you are, and I have actually presented a scenario that holds water on multiple levels, while you and Exalt have not. Maybe you're both scum, maybe Exalt is just gullible, I hope whatever happens tonight gives us information so that we can get rolling Day 2, because I will not be no lynching then.


                      Originally posted by Exalt View Post
                      Day 1 lynch is statistically always the best bet. I've never seen a game where there was no day 1 lynch that was productive in any way. Lynches give information based on who voted and why, while scum NKs do not this early in the game barring some lucky watcher/tracker kind of thing. Assuming that doesn't happen, a No Lynch means you start day 2 with one less townie and no more information than you started with.. No Lynching on Day 1 is basically a free turn for scum. Also, if someone gets too high in votes and will be lynched, they can claim. If no counterclaim and they get lynched as an important town role, we go after the people who didn't unvote, since they're either obvious scum or braindead town.
                      Just some more evidence here that Exalt was willing to sacrifice an important town power role, just not a marginally useful role like ixt claimed. I am not responsible for the no lynch, I stayed out of it and did exactly like I said I would. The 10 of you (minus inactive people I guess) are responsible for the no lynch.

                      Originally posted by ixt View Post
                      and what do u have to say in response tho those people who have u on their "potential" scum list? u do realize ur name is on a few, while i seem to miss exalt's name on any (of course it doesn't clear exalt's name) but of course at this phase he would seem more likely to have the town's best interested compared to yourself
                      I shouldn't have to spell this out, but I will. Count the number of scum lists my name shows up on. There's 13 people in this game. Theres probably 3 mafia members with a neutral role out there, so 4ish people out there who would have a vested interest in removing a vocal townie and leaving a group of quiet lurkers to be defeated. Exalt told me earlier that my math was wrong, so I'll let you do the math for yourself in this case.
                      Peyton Manning

                      Originally posted by Vatican Assassin
                      all stats should be removed except for the stat of how many times mattey can go fuck himself which I would expect should be rather high
                      JAMAL> didn't think there was a worse shark than midoent but the_paul takes it

                      Comment


                      • Also, I'm not saying anyone suspicious of me is scum. You should be suspicious, because that means you're thinking. But anyone who can put me fairly definitively on a scum list without being able to back it with anything resembling evidence is taking a fairly big reach imo
                        Peyton Manning

                        Originally posted by Vatican Assassin
                        all stats should be removed except for the stat of how many times mattey can go fuck himself which I would expect should be rather high
                        JAMAL> didn't think there was a worse shark than midoent but the_paul takes it

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by the_paul View Post

                          I wasn't really measuring anything in terms of contribution, but sure, I probably have. I told everyone right off the top what I was going to do, and I did it. I didn't interfere with any other plan, I did what I was going to do. Exalt wrote a very long, well thought out piece that disagreed with me, which is fine. Nothing wrong with disagreeing. However, I did exactly what I said I was going to do, and Exalt did exactly what he criticized me for doing, and has received absolutely no push back for it. You don't find that suspicious in the least?


                          So here is the post Exalt wrote (I omitted a few parts because it's long), which led to several people being suspicious of me. Fine, no big deal to me. But the entire point of his post is that day 1 no lynches almost always favor the scum, regardless of the outcome. Having said that, and specifically saying it's even worth it to mis-lynch a townie day 1 (which I disagreed with in my post), why did he not switch his vote onto you to do what he said, since it's worth it. Your "role claim" is a pseudo power role from what I can tell from your hints, why didn't he do what he said and lynch you so that there can be information out there for day 2? What is with his blind allegiance to you? Your role claim sounds invented to me, and either way its only marginally useful to town if its true. Even if you are telling the truth, outside of an illegal screenshot of your role, how could you have possible convinced Exalt that you were coming to him not knowing his role, to convince him of your role, without having to prove anything to each other, and he would have bought it? You're telling me that scenario is more plausible, to the point of Exalt backtracking on what he spent the first 3 pages saying, than the thought that you 2 are on the same side and already know each other's roles? I am unconvinced of Exalt but quite suspicious, I'm strongly leaning towards the fact that you are not what you say you are, and I have actually presented a scenario that holds water on multiple levels, while you and Exalt have not. Maybe you're both scum, maybe Exalt is just gullible, I hope whatever happens tonight gives us information so that we can get rolling Day 2, because I will not be no lynching then.




                          Just some more evidence here that Exalt was willing to sacrifice an important town power role, just not a marginally useful role like ixt claimed. I am not responsible for the no lynch, I stayed out of it and did exactly like I said I would. The 10 of you (minus inactive people I guess) are responsible for the no lynch.



                          I shouldn't have to spell this out, but I will. Count the number of scum lists my name shows up on. There's 13 people in this game. Theres probably 3 mafia members with a neutral role out there, so 4ish people out there who would have a vested interest in removing a vocal townie and leaving a group of quiet lurkers to be defeated. Exalt told me earlier that my math was wrong, so I'll let you do the math for yourself in this case.
                          Originally posted by the_paul View Post
                          Exalt, if you believe that people need to make up for day 1 actions next day phase, then it seems to me that we should expect quite a lot out of you, maybe more so than anyone else.
                          I think your analysis is fair, but only based on the information you currently know. The shade you're throwing on me with this is technically justified based on that information, but I'm hoping it will eventually be proven to be hasty judgement based on false assumptions. I'm also under no obligation to vote someone I think is town just to force a lynch, all because you refused to do anything at all in regards to lynching scum. If you are on ixt or Rodney on Day 2, and it's not based on some town night action information, then you basically admit that you wanted town to waste two full days based on zero reasoning. You claimed your justification for a NL was basic math, but I think I've proven you wrong in that regard, so I still don't know what your justification actually was. Can you explain it now? Why did you want a No Lynch? What did town gain by you not contributing your vote? Why should any townie think your actions to be pro-town whatsoever based on the results you helped create?

                          Comment


                          • I don?t think I need to explain my position on not lynching day 1 again. We fundamentally disagree, which is completely fine. In my experience, I am of the opinion that it does more harm than good in general. You are of the opposite opinion. I understand your position in that regard and I respect that.

                            What I do not understand is that you originally said that a day 1 lynch is almost always worth it, even if it means lynching a townie or forcing a legitimate role claim. This was your position until it came time for you to act on it. Outside of something illegal like screenshotting the role PM, putting myself in your shoes, I cannot imagine what would make me back off of such a stout stance and have you both be pro town. You drew a line in the sand early on and painted people on one side potential townies, and on the other side potential scum. When it came time for you to back those words up, you didn?t.

                            Naturally I?m only going off of what has been said publicly. I don?t play this game anymore, so I?m not privy to any conversations that happen outside of here. I?m not expecting you to divulge everything right away, you?re obviously not a dumb player so I wouldn?t expect you to do that. However, I think you?ll agree that I can?t be blamed for forming an opinion based on what I can see.

                            You willingly ignored your math to pursue a no lynch scenario, so I don?t think I really need to address that part. There is no way you can honestly believe we didn?t learn anything Day 1 though. When I get back to a computer (hard as hell to read through this stuff on mobile), it shouldn?t take a lot of time to be able to come up with a list of several people who did the complete opposite of what they said they would definitively do, and instead did what I was criticized for saying, and are skating by without any scrutiny. You are foremost on that list because you?ve been the most vocal, but there are several more that did the same thing, and anyone will be able to scroll back and make their own list of suspicious names.

                            I?m not saying you are absolutely anti town, my point is that you should not be blindly trusted just because you?ve posted a lot. I?m trying to force a dialogue, because while this thread has been dominated by about ~4 of us pointing fingers at each other, there?s been ~9 people sitting in the shadows doing nothing of substance. I learned a lot day 1, and I think forcing a dialogue to happen on day 2 will bring people out of the shadows where we can start making progress.
                            Peyton Manning

                            Originally posted by Vatican Assassin
                            all stats should be removed except for the stat of how many times mattey can go fuck himself which I would expect should be rather high
                            JAMAL> didn't think there was a worse shark than midoent but the_paul takes it

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                            • And in regards to your point about what I do tomorrow, that is untrue. You had the chance to back up your words, where you literally said even if a power role is exposed it?s worth it, and you didn?t. You played it safe, because if you changed and voted ixt, you would have taken the heat. I understand why you did it, but it is disingenuous to try and pin the heat on me ahead of time. I told you what I would do to pursue a no lynch scenario, and I did it. You told me what you would do to force a lynch, and you decided against it. Own that decision, along with the other ~9 who painted me into a corner and then did the same thing, and make some progress from it.
                              Peyton Manning

                              Originally posted by Vatican Assassin
                              all stats should be removed except for the stat of how many times mattey can go fuck himself which I would expect should be rather high
                              JAMAL> didn't think there was a worse shark than midoent but the_paul takes it

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                              • The_paul, since you didn't want to vote ixt or Rodney, you must think both are town, correct? That is literally the only justification whatsoever as to why you voted neither one and threw your vote away on purpose, and so your 'suspicions' of ixt and you threatening to vote him on Day 2 looks like you are admitting you purposely screwed town over. There is no other viable excuse that doesn't directly correlate with you either being scum or just dumb, and we already know you aren't dumb. From what I see, you basically admit that you never intended to help town in any possible way on Day 1, and now you intend to waste town's time even more on Day 2 by voting ixt and hopefully lynching him then. You could have lynched him Day 1 as the deciding vote, which means town could look for someone else on Day 2 and move on, but you refused to do so, so I'm wondering what it is you think you've accomplished to help town? If you think ixt is scum, then why would you refuse to vote him Day 1? Why would you want to waste two days of town's time by only voting for him on Day 2? Regardless of what he flips in the future, your actions directly caused town's chances of winning to go down for no apparent reason, since I already proved your original justification of a No Lynch (basic math) to be false. It seems to me that you've done nothing but be detrimental on purpose, so I really want to know what your thought process is here.

                                Also, do you have any ideas of who else is scum? You didn't seem to have any interest in talking about anyone except Rodney/ixt at all Day 1, yet you also refused to vote either one, so what can we all take away from that in regards to your motives? Did you purposely use the No Lynch excuse as a reason for not scum hunt anyone at all? At least everyone who voted Rodney or ixt had a reason to focus on them, since they were invested in those wagons through their vote, yet you don't have that excuse. Why didn't you try to find other scum players, since you clearly didn't think ixt or Rodney were worth your vote? Which of the other 10 players in the game did you interrogate to learn more about them and their possible alignments for when you are finally ready to lynch someone on Day 2+? If ixt is the only player you are ready to lynch on Day 2, then you effectively admit you screwed town on purpose, so I sure hope you have a very good list of players you intend to lynch on Day 2 that isn't named Rodney/ixt.

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