[TW MAFIA] Western Chronicles

[the_paul]

Double post FTW. I wouldn?t mind being the mayor so that I could immediately lynch the least active player without having to argue through a day phase about doing it. That?s one perk I would enjoy, assuming nobody does anything stupid enough to make them an obvious choice.

[RoDNeY]

Wait so if someone is elected Mayor or marshall do they still retain their normal role? Like can the Marshall still use their Mod given night ability? If marshall and mayor are immune to being killed at night until the bodyguard is killed that means the marshall and mayor could be extremely transparent in the thread as they are safe at least until the bodyguard is killed.

Someone could roleclaim (dont tell me that im baiting out power roles this is serious) and hold the marshall position and be extremely transparent with their night results in the thread and be protected at night by the bodyguard. The player could literally just pick players one by one and let town know their findings each day and we would be able to get behind that person to lead town lynches based off the night results

[RoDNeY]

If this is the case i would debate that a role of Cop or Tracker would be best fit for one of the elected

[RoDNeY]

If this is the case i would debate that a role of Cop or Tracker would be best fit for one of the elected

ehh scratch that maybe, if scum has a roleblocker they would know exactly who to block to prevent night results

[the_paul]

Wait so if someone is elected Mayor or marshall do they still retain their normal role? Like can the Marshall still use their Mod given night ability? If marshall and mayor are immune to being killed at night until the bodyguard is killed that means the marshall and mayor could be extremely transparent in the thread as they are safe at least until the bodyguard is killed.

Someone could roleclaim (dont tell me that im baiting out power roles this is serious) and hold the marshall position and be extremely transparent with their night results in the thread and be protected at night by the bodyguard. The player could literally just pick players one by one and let town know their findings each day and we would be able to get behind that person to lead town lynches based off the night results

This seems super overpowered, but it?s a great question that we really need an answer to

[WillBy]

They do retain their normal role. I had previously discussed the mechanics with field and that was one of my big concerns.
I'm currently wondering how bodyguards get assigned, if they have to use protection as a night action, and how many bodyguards we will get.

Also, in my head-canon the previous mayor and
marshal are jessup and wicket. This is completely unrelated to game but I think it should be out there.

[the_paul]

Also, in my head-canon the previous mayor and
marshal are jessup and wicket. This is completely unrelated to game but I think it should be out there.

This has completely soured me on either role. Those are not shoes I want to fill there.

So we can basically play this the normal way, or we can try to force a massive role claim and play a guessing game, where if there is a town killing role/role blocker they try to find the mafia role blocker before the bodyguard gets killed.

I won?t trust a roleclaim from any of you, so I?m rolling with option A, but option B is pretty fun to think about.

Willby, still waiting for that campaign speech. Earn my vote man, come on!

[Exalt]

Marshall and Mayor investigate as such, regardless of alignment. Or at least that's how I've read that

So I did some thinking about how to best play this out. I originally figured scum wouldn't automatically jump at those roles knowing the spotlight and likely investigation it will cause, but it's actually a bigger win for them if they get it due to investigation-immunity. That is, it is if that player is sufficiently skilled at mafia. It likely isn't if that player is inexperienced. Due to the investigation-immunity I overlooked before, Marshall is now the best possible role for any scum (or SK) to remain ambiguous, because they don't actually have to take the heat in lynching anyone, they are bulletproof due to the Bodyguard, and they can hide away their scum buddies from ever having to participate with the jailkeeper ability. Scum incarcerating scum means that player won't have to talk (and potentially make mistakes) all day and cannot be targeted by anyone at night, so nobody can claim guilty on them. That means Marshall can cause both themselves and a scum buddy to be immune from everything. It's the perfect way for scum to hide away a weak-link and/or lurker-type teammate from having to do anything at all. I imagine that if Rodney or Paul could have done that last game for BIET, they would have. Marshall is the perfect role for scum in every scenario I can think of, with the only drawback being investigative-immunity as a Godfather, since they'd likely want to be investigated instead.

In contrast, Mayor is good for scum in that it allows them another vote and the one insta-lynch (along with being bullet/investigation proof), but they still have to take the heat for who they lynch Day 1 and where they vote afterword. It's more powerful in the right hands I suppose, especially in the very late game, but it has major drawbacks for scum as well. It's almost suicidal for them I think, because how many days in a row will town allow a scum Mayor to fuck them over with mislynches before giving him the noose?

Okay, so I can potentially see two ways scum go about this: either scum go hard for both roles (and ultimately hoping for Marshall long-term) for the obvious benefits that will bring, and they blindly hope it doesn't get them lynched due to the inevitable heat that will come, or scum stay far away and hope for a few mistakes to happen that gets the mayor/marshall lynched, since they cannot be cleared by town PRs. If scum have any investigation-proof roles like Godfather, then it's likely better for them to stay away from either position, since they'd probably prefer to be investigated and 'cleared' while their buddies try getting elected, assuming they are experienced players. Inexperienced scum would likely not go for either role, leaving only the best scum players that aren't investigation-immune (Godfather, Ninja, Lawyer, Tailor, Banker, etc) going for it, and probably for Marshall rather than Mayor. Everyone else is probably town or third party. I will say that if there is an SK or other third-party role, they will go for broke to get one of these roles, because it's likely their best game-winning strategy. Again, Marshall would be the best role for them too.

So the way I see it, we can look at this from multiple angles. One is the obvious, which is that these roles are powerful enough for scum to want them, because the right town players getting them really makes scum's life miserable. That said, inexperienced scum would probably not go for it, because the spotlight will be on them regardless of the investigation-immunity, and they probably wouldn't be the ones a Vigilante or SK would go after for the bulletproof modifier to matter at all. This leaves the roles really worth it for only the best scum players (if the scum team contains them at least), any third-party role (either role is a dream come true for an SK), or townies that care more about being NK'd than being lynched, since being lynched is likely inevitable barring great results. Other than that, scum might go for them to play keepaway, but Mayor has way too many drawbacks for it to be worth it imo, and Marshall can just be considered an auto-lynch if the game gets near the endgame to remove any sort of vote manipulation.

Any thoughts?

From what I conclude, the people most willing to be elected need to be suspected as scum, me included for parity's sake. That said, it's likely only one among us are scum, unless Field put together an unlikely all-star scum cast (making two of them go for it), leaving everyone not going for it as possibilities in the 'inexperienced' scum pool. Right now, that pool should statistically contain more scum than the pool of players seeking election. If we assume balanced teams in terms of skill, then scum likely have one really experienced player who will go for broke to get Marshall, with the rest of the players as town or third party. I do all this with the assumption that inexperienced scum will stay on the sidelines, experienced scum will only go for the roles if they aren't the Godfather, and scum will try their best to actually stay away from the Mayor role unless they have balls of steel and/or are kind of dumb. I guess the last part depends on whether you view it a positive for scum to get one free insta-kill on town and possibly another mislynch or two before they find a noose around their own neck. I assume most experienced scum want to stay alive the entire game rather than possibly trade 1 for 1 and leave their team in shambles, but that's just me.

This means that the best lynch for Day 1 and maybe even in future days is someone not going for the election. If a scum player does win the election, it's bad, but only one of them will likely get a spot. If they get Mayor, they're eventually SOL due to their town mislynches, because they can't hide in the shadows. If they get Marshall, town can just set a rule to lynch the Marshall before LYLO (lynch scum or lose) to prevent any shenanigans taking away town votes. It doesn't even matter if they are scum or not at that point, because a bad Marshall removing a townie from voting/talking during the endgame is a liability that town mathematically can't afford, if it comes to that stage. It's a pretty easy solution I think. Going for either role is essentially suicide from how I see this playing out, leaving most of the scum team on the sidelines for their own good.

Oh, and all of this is assuming everything remains as it is on Day 2. Field did write [DAY 1 MECHANIC]rather than just [GAME MECHANIC], so it's possible there's a new mayor/marshall or something else entirely each day phase. If that's the case, then I have no idea what to do.

[WillBy]

Not so sure I agree with a lot of the above, Exalt. Marshal is a 1 shot, so as long as the player is careful, town should be fine. And just like any other game, we will likely never hit completely confirmed town status, but if we can reasonably confirm either elected role as town, we would be incredibly far ahead of previous games.
I dont see how it will impact the game much beyond d1. Election seems like as much a shot in the dark as lynching, but this time were hoping to hit a townie. I think well get even more info from an election than a lynch.

And I've already given my campaign speech. Trustworthy, vocal, smart, town. That's about all I can give until I pull a lucky investigation out of my pocket on day 2 (in b4 "is that a roleclaim") (no)

[Zeebu]

I don't think they are investigation immune, at least from what I've read. The description just says they are kill immune.


Marshall - You are the primary elected role of the game. You get to, once during the game, incarcerate a player for one day and night cycle. You must PM me if you want to incarcerate a player and it will happen the next day (+ night). The incarcerated player cannot vote, cannot use his role, and is immune to being targeted by kills during the night.

Mayor - You are the secondary elected role of the game; the runner up to the election. You gain one extra vote during the day. You also, once elected, get to choose the first player to get lynched in the game (on Day 1). You cannot choose the Marshall.

Note: Elected roles can be of any alignment and will investigate as Marshall or Mayor.

Additionally,

Bodyguard - You are the protector of the elected roles. As long as you are alive the Marshall and Mayor are both immune to all hits during the night. The elected roles will not know who you are. The bodyguard will randomly be chosen from the remaining townies after the Mayor chooses who s/he wants to lynch.

the way i read this is that there will always be a bodyguard? even if the bodyguard dies, a new one is chosen with each mayoral election?

[field]

Some clarifications regarding the roles and Day 1 mechanic after reading your questions whether in public or private:

-Player selected by Marshall will be notified that they've been incarcerated.
-Self-voting is OK. First player to receive the most votes will be elected Marshall, in the event of a vote-tie.
-Marshall one-shot incarceration and Mayor one extra vote can be used at any point during the game. Mayor must pick someone to be lynched on Day 1. Whoever gets elected Mayor, please submit a target as soon as phase ends (or is nearing its end if you have substantial lead). I will set a rough date and time for phase change when I get a chance so you all have an idea. I will end phase, then in separate post I will do a phase change write-up after I receive a name from the Mayor.
-Bodyguard does NOT die if either Marshall or Mayor were targeted with a kill. This is a slight variation from the traditional Bodyguard role.
-Marshall, Mayor, and Bodyguard are all in addition to your regular role.
-Bodyguard will flip upon death.
-This is only a Day 1 mechanic. Subsequent Day phases will be normal (vote to lynch, player with most votes gets lynched). Marshall, Mayor, and Bodyguard will remain in the game until killed or lynched.

Lastly, as WillBy mentioned, we discussed the mechanic so that I can better balance these three roles. I was counting on him asking questions for clarification, and he came through. I did not share with him anything about the setup that gives him an advantage over the rest of the players.

Note: I will add these clarifications to Day 1 write-up for your future reference.

[Zeebu]

you say the person incarcerated cannot vote, can they talk and still try to affect the vote?

though the mayor and marshall are immune to night kills while the bodyguard is alive, are they able to be voted for during day phase?

[field]

you say the person incarcerated cannot vote, can they talk and still try to affect the vote?

though the mayor and marshall are immune to night kills while the bodyguard is alive, are they able to be voted for during day phase?

Yes to both questions.
They can even vote if they want, but I will not count their vote in my vote counts.

[Zeebu]

ok, the bodyguard is a very odd mechanic. is there currently a bodyguard out there assigned or will that wait until a mayor is almost chosen? if that is the case, then what is the point? its a totally random thing tossed in the game. if you choose a bodyguard randomly, their use is only during that particular night phase.

does the day 1 voted in mayor and marshall stay the mayor and marshall until they die?

[Zeebu]

i think maybe that was the part i was not understanding. the chosen day 1 mayor and marshall look to keep these abilities until death