Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Improve Quality of Life (IQoL) #1 - Free Speech

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Improve Quality of Life (IQoL) #1 - Free Speech

    Mission Statement: I am a firm believer that if you could improve the quality of life of any organization, inevitably the system will grow and improve. Therefore, I will start a series of suggestions and feedback to what I believe may be a positive impact on the zone. Feel free to leave your constructive criticism, whether it be support or against the premise. Trolls will not be tolerated.

    Topic: Free Speech - this alludes to Qan's recent public opinion poll: https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...f-speech-in-tw

    In your opinion, should Trench Wars introduce the following new rule?

    "Discussions of politics, race, gender, sexuality, and religion are not allowed."

    Pros: The point of this is just a public opinion, which I am confident most people will be against since it restricts free speech. However, the intention is altruistic because there is an abundant of racists/homophobic/religious wackos in the game that sometimes "cross the line" and should be punished for their harmful speech.

    Cons: Simply not practical. The staff team is scarce and this sets up a a gray area where people can unintentionally discuss a particular subject which may be difficult to assess. In addition, people may not even be aware of this particular stipulation in the game and be may unjustly warned for ignorance. This will lead to anger and distaste for the game. This is a game where people communicate and exchange ideas. Restricting any sort of speech is authoritative and will ultimately backfire. Let's keep it simple and not make the game complicated.

    Solution: Enforce warnings and mute people who are extremely inflammatory and disrespectful. Do it in an objective manner where both regular and staff members are equally punishable. Do not turn a blind eye.

  • #2
    didn't read but I agree
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lrim's Turtle View Post
      Solution: Enforce warnings and mute people who are extremely inflammatory and disrespectful. Do it in an objective manner where both regular and staff members are equally punishable. Do not turn a blind eye.
      This was what I first asked for. Staff said they couldn't do it without a rule. So I'm basically jumping through hoops to try and get them the precious rule they need.

      Comment


      • #4
        right...have some common sense and decency and start moderating again.

        https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

        https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

        https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png

        ..its not. that. hard. just moderate. this is not a "free speech" zone and it never has been.
        "TW and EG staff are both insanely lenient on hate speech, to the point that they're jeopardizing the game's survival" -SpaceHiker

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by trancE tunes View Post
          right...have some common sense and decency and start moderating again.

          https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

          https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

          https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png

          ..its not. that. hard. just moderate. this is not a "free speech" zone and it never has been.
          Commenting on that third pic, you are not quoting the context which paved way to that topic. Someone had asked me about the demographics of interracial marriage, so I simply gave them the statistical information I found. There was no intention of offending any particular race, it was just facts.

          Comment


          • #6
            "black males want white wives looking at the statistics"

            "it's a status symbol for a black dude + white women are better looking"

            this is an example of UNACCEPTABLE racism without using blatant racist words such as the n word etc...

            this is not YOUR SOCIAL LIFE OR SOCIAL CIRCLE where you can just state these racist statements and still feel completely welcomed by everyone in the zone..

            and no one cares if you have a random website showing skewed/mis-representative correlations/data. and that is not what this conversation is about AT ALL so please do not even start debating that on this thread.

            staff, this is EXACTLY why i provided the example https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png.

            we need common sense and decency in moderating this kind of behavior and STOP being so fucking lenient as SpaceHiker mentioned...(see my signature)

            it doesn't matter if someone said something about interracial marriages. the point of the example is YOU and "notoserio" went too far.

            its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...

            https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

            https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

            https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png
            "TW and EG staff are both insanely lenient on hate speech, to the point that they're jeopardizing the game's survival" -SpaceHiker

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by trancE tunes View Post
              "black males want white wives looking at the statistics"

              "it's a status symbol for a black dude + white women are better looking"

              this is an example of UNACCEPTABLE racism without using blatant racist words such as the n word etc...

              this is not YOUR SOCIAL LIFE OR SOCIAL CIRCLE where you can just state these racist statements and still feel completely welcomed by everyone in the zone..

              and no one cares if you have a random website showing skewed/mis-representative correlations/data. and that is not what this conversation is about AT ALL so please do not even start debating that on this thread.

              staff, this is EXACTLY why i provided the example https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png.

              we need common sense and decency in moderating this kind of behavior and STOP being so fucking lenient as SpaceHiker mentioned...(see my signature)

              it doesn't matter if someone said something about interracial marriages. the point of the example is YOU and "notoserio" went too far.

              its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...

              https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

              https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

              https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png
              It's called extrapolating the data and giving an objective analysis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interr..._United_States

              Don't get offended over something so trivial. I made no racial slurs toward any group, and you're omitting a major chunk of my conversation leading to those remarks for your convenience. This is not normal human behavior.

              Comment


              • #8
                See that? Now he wants to debate here just like he does in pub.

                STAFF, THIS IS EXACTLY THE DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

                "I made no racial slurs toward any group"

                This is exactly why I provided the example, staffers.

                its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...

                https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

                https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

                https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png
                "TW and EG staff are both insanely lenient on hate speech, to the point that they're jeopardizing the game's survival" -SpaceHiker

                Comment


                • #9

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Keep proving my point, thanks.

                    See that? Now he wants to debate here just like he does in pub.

                    STAFF, THIS IS EXACTLY THE DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

                    "I made no racial slurs toward any group"

                    This is exactly why I provided the example, staffers.

                    its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...

                    https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

                    https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

                    https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png
                    "TW and EG staff are both insanely lenient on hate speech, to the point that they're jeopardizing the game's survival" -SpaceHiker

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You need to prove racism beyond a shadow of a doubt. You also need to define it really well. In most cases you can't moderate a racist person, and you can only moderate OVERT racism... covert racism is something else entirely.

                      In this case the current racism rule doesn't cover what LRIM said, it's his opinion on data so far. He might be racist, but we can't moderate him just because we know/believe him to be racist. Similarly we can't always moderate covert racism.

                      What a moderator can do, and should do in this case is screenshot what is going on and bring it to the attention of staff, staff decides if it's serious; from there the question is posed to the public... since this isn't your zone but a zone for the people. If a majority of players don't want to see comments similar to that, then you all have to define exactly what it is, how to spot it, and how to prevent it.

                      I've actually studied history, and topics surrounding racism and lynching, particularly i read journals on the famous boxer jack johnson who was banned from the USA and set up by the FBI, who also dated white women... (some who were prostitutes) because at the time white women having relationships with black men was highly prevented in society, the women would be ostracized and racists would openly insult them and go after them. The fact that Jack Johnson won the championship belt made everyone angry because that belt basically symbolzed you were the best, physically and strategically at fighting... which previously was a title held by a white man. This was further compounded by him dating white women to almost intentionally piss white people off... to the point that the combination of the two had the government against him, as well as caused riots in USA which lead to deaths. Interesting part of history. There is some merit for saying SOME black men like white women, but it's not necessarily a fact all, LRIM stated it as a generalization/stereotype.. so i would advise that a future rule actually state that stereotypes are against the rules.

                      I would argue too, that context does matter, in the context of a game, i think most people are screwing around because they are bored, and they don't really understand how bad their words/actions are... with that in mind, we aren't faced with "true evil" here or something like that... more like immature people. so with that in mind, a ban is really heavy handed, this is why i advocate for proportional punishment, text violations earn you text punishments..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        *harshly throws shoes one by one (total of two shoes) at thread*

                        "Yeah, so what if the guy threw a shoe at me? *Shrug and grin*. No, I consider it an important STEP in a, in a, on the road toward an Iraq that can sustain itself, govern itself, and defend itself. But lemme talk about the guy throwing the shoe. Uhhh.. it is one way to gre- gain attention. Uhhh... it's like going to a political rally and having people yell at you. It's like driving down the street and have people not gesturing with all 5 fingers. It's a way for people to draw, ya know, attention - I don't know what the guy's cause is - but one thing is for certain: he caused you to ask me a question about it."
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "You need to prove racism beyond a shadow of a doubt. You also need to define it really well." -Falconeer's apparent main issue. If staff has this same issue, then yes do the ban of all topics. Like I said, if there isn't any COMMON SENSE AND COMMON DECENCY available, then we should in fact just ban all of those topics altogether.

                          However, its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...

                          https://imgur.com/9Mz56mH.png

                          https://imgur.com/i6IqDDj.png

                          https://imgur.com/rnlCrfW.png
                          "TW and EG staff are both insanely lenient on hate speech, to the point that they're jeopardizing the game's survival" -SpaceHiker

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We already have a mission statement up on the Trench War's site :P
                            "What is it? Um . . . what do you want it to be?" —Juzba, Izzet tinker
                            • Shark
                            • Dicer
                            • Sager
                            • Trench Wars Map Uploader

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by trancE tunes View Post
                              "You need to prove racism beyond a shadow of a doubt. You also need to define it really well." -Falconeer's apparent main issue. If staff has this same issue, then yes do the ban of all topics. Like I said, if there isn't any COMMON SENSE AND COMMON DECENCY available, then we should in fact just ban all of those topics altogether.

                              However, its not. that. hard. common sense..common decency...
                              Yep so my point would be then, make that a rule, give an example so there is no question on what the rule means. Then moderate it... in this case you want a rule that says:

                              Treat everyone with respect and kindness take arguments and disputes to PMs.

                              And you'll want a second rule, about content appropriate in public chat... so something along the lines of nothing obscene, no racism, no sexism, etc.

                              If there are rules in place that everyone can agree on, and the moderators can match an offense to a rule without ambiguity or doubt, then i have no problem with moderating rules. But these criteria have to be met... And again if there is doubt about something, it's not the moderators place to put an end to something that isn't clearly defined and listed. Just wait a day or a week and get the rules updated and now you've changed what happens in the zone for the better. In the long term people respect people who are fair, regardless of disagreements.

                              Example, i might disagree with you about what a rule should be, but if you're posting rules and moderating fairly, i won't feel abused or attacked personally, i'll feel like staff is just doing their best. This a good thing, that's what we want i hope.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X