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  • #31
    Originally posted by qan View Post
    Henry went against the judgment of a lot of people to rehire you, in part this was because of me ... because I've always believed you have good intentions. Pretty much universally from staff we heard, "Wait, you're actually rehiring Jessup?" Got a lot of eye-rolls and took a lot of flak to even give that chance. Then, when you mishandled that call so completely, so absolutely thoroughly mishandled it, that was a clear indicator we'd made a mistake. I'm sorry for having made that mistake, which caused even more unnecessary stress.

    Suicide's a slightly sensitive topic for me. A good friend of mine from SS -- a transgendered person, coincidentally -- killed herself. It wasn't as a result of people saying "kill yourself" online, of course. But certainly, there are people this happens to, and it's a serious issue.

    The bottom line, though, is that we enforce a set of rules in TW. And we don't deviate from them or interpret them as we see fit. According to our rulebook, harassment, generally, is handled via ?ignore. If you are being harassed, you're asked to ignore the person. If they change names specifically to get around the ignore, staff can then intervene. We've discussed this at least 3 times in the past, so I know you're aware of this. You've refused to use ?ignore, insisting you have the right to defend yourself. As a result, we've been unable to do anything about it.

    This is our policy. This is what we enforce. Nothing else. However, policy can easily change. If you don't think this is the best policy, you can put together some kind of proposal to change it.

    It doesn't have to be anything fancy. This seems to be an issue you're passionate about. Why not try to change things for the better? It would be easy enough to create a simple, concise rule on personal harassment.

    You might wonder: why don't I do it myself, or ask ban ops to do it? Because I'm not certain it's the right way to go (though I'm not certain it's not the right way, either). There's a reason we've handled things as we have up until now: because for the most part, it's worked, without unnecessarily restricting freedom of speech. (There are also problems of verification of private messages, which "real" game companies don't have to worry about because they can see the messages going through the servers. Mods in TW can't see PMs. BIET was working on an interesting solution to verify PMs, though. Still, if you just focus on non-PM messages, you could put together a decent, effective policy.)

    There's also a problem of punishment. What happens to the harasser in this situation? A normal silence? A ban? Permban?

    I don't have the answers to these questions. But someone who cares deeply about the issue could work out a smart way to handle it, and possibly make TW a better place through their effort.
    I think you interpreted the Zone rules incorrectly qan. I was staff wayyyyyyyy before either you or Henry and believe me we used to look out for the players gaming environment as our top priority.. not the abusers. You all allowed this to change when you came into power. I was just a zh then (2006ish) but I saw trolls shut down quickly and effectively. The population was large and if you wanted to play you had to abide by the rules. I could be wrong if you were there or not then but I'm 99% sure you were not. You have been a dean for what.. like 4 or 5 years here? Didn't you start in DEV? You were quite quiet when you first joined staff and never were a hands on call taker type. These were the days of D0ck and da1andonly, up in ya, pure_luck , Dameon Angel and many more great old vets. Before shadowmere took over which was the beginning of the end, I certainly know Henry was not there. There was a reason they posted the rules listed in pub arena and they followed them! Were there inner staff issues??. yes of course.. but the deans were clear about what was overstepping boundaries when it came to excessive harassment. Trash talk was always allowed.. yes.. but it had to pertain to gameplay skills with room for some small personal jabs but if it devolved into hate and bigotry or suicide goading and the likes it was dealt with swiftly and harshly. It was not uncommon to see month long bans imposed for such infractions. Staff did NOT play! I remember year long bans sent out. I remember many perma bans too. We always were fighting evaders as a result but staff was doing no BS moderation with harsh sentences for rule breakers and rightly so. Cheaters and harassers were NOT welcome... and they knew it.

    I've posted this 2 times and you never seem to address it. THESE ARE THE RULES PLAYERS MUST ABIDE BY!!


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Jessup View Post

      I think you interpreted the Zone rules incorrectly qan. I was staff wayyyyyyyy before either you or Henry and believe me we used to look out for the players gaming environment as our top priority.. not the abusers. You all allowed this to change when you came into power. I was just a zh then (2006ish) but I saw trolls shut down quickly and effectively. The population was large and if you wanted to play you had to abide by the rules. I could be wrong if you were there or not then but I'm 99% sure you were not. You have been a dean for what.. like 4 or 5 years here? Didn't you start in DEV? You were quite quiet when you first joined staff and never were a hands on call taker type. These were the days of D0ck and da1andonly, up in ya, pure_luck , Dameon Angel and many more great old vets. Before shadowmere took over which was the beginning of the end, I certainly know Henry was not there. There was a reason they posted the rules listed in pub arena and they followed them! Were there inner staff issues??. yes of course.. but the deans were clear about what was overstepping boundaries when it came to excessive harassment. Trash talk was always allowed.. yes.. but it had to pertain to gameplay skills with room for some small personal jabs but if it devolved into hate and bigotry or suicide goading and the likes it was dealt with swiftly and harshly. It was not uncommon to see month long bans imposed for such infractions. Staff did NOT play! I remember year long bans sent out. I remember many perma bans too. We always were fighting evaders as a result but staff was doing no BS moderation with harsh sentences for rule breakers and rightly so. Cheaters and harassers were NOT welcome... and they knew it.

      I've posted this 2 times and you never seem to address it. THESE ARE THE RULES PLAYERS MUST ABIDE BY!!

      Does anyone else think Jessup is an annoying little cunt or is it just me? Holy fk. So glad I got rid of this pest from my e-life.
      "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
      Napoleon Hill


      wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
      Dral>I can get implants

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jessup View Post

        I think you interpreted the Zone rules incorrectly qan. I was staff wayyyyyyyy before either you or Henry and believe me we used to look out for the players gaming environment as our top priority.. not the abusers. You all allowed this to change when you came into power. I was just a zh then (2006ish) but I saw trolls shut down quickly and effectively. The population was large and if you wanted to play you had to abide by the rules. I could be wrong if you were there or not then but I'm 99% sure you were not. You have been a dean for what.. like 4 or 5 years here? Didn't you start in DEV? You were quite quiet when you first joined staff and never were a hands on call taker type. These were the days of D0ck and da1andonly, up in ya, pure_luck , Dameon Angel and many more great old vets. Before shadowmere took over which was the beginning of the end, I certainly know Henry was not there. There was a reason they posted the rules listed in pub arena and they followed them! Were there inner staff issues??. yes of course.. but the deans were clear about what was overstepping boundaries when it came to excessive harassment. Trash talk was always allowed.. yes.. but it had to pertain to gameplay skills with room for some small personal jabs but if it devolved into hate and bigotry or suicide goading and the likes it was dealt with swiftly and harshly. It was not uncommon to see month long bans imposed for such infractions. Staff did NOT play! I remember year long bans sent out. I remember many perma bans too. We always were fighting evaders as a result but staff was doing no BS moderation with harsh sentences for rule breakers and rightly so. Cheaters and harassers were NOT welcome... and they knew it.

        I've posted this 2 times and you never seem to address it. THESE ARE THE RULES PLAYERS MUST ABIDE BY!!
        The rules were updated after Azov came through as ban op, and possibly a bit before then. I wasn't involved for a few years during that time and missed out on some developments, so I can't say exactly when it happened. (By the way, I've never been Dean of Staff. I've been a dev SMod off and on for years, and came back as a dev sysop a few years ago at Beasty's request. Then a bit later, I was promoted to Head Sysop. Beasty went inactive to begin his career, and I was left holding the baby.)

        We were experiencing a lot of staff abuse at one point. Azov and others set about more carefully refining the rules so that they could only be enforced in a certain way. The same policies that had people banned for 30 days for violating arbitrary interpretations of very general rules were also the ones that abusive mods easily used to subtly terrorize the playerbase. "Talk back to me and I'll ban you." It also had the effect of easily removing the "undesirables," at the cost of empowering the ruthless and power-hungry. We attracted that sort to staff in droves. Corruption was rampant. Remember when you could ban a player for PMing you something racist, and the "proof" was your word as a mod over the player's?

        Under the new way of doing business, we now follow a very specific set of rules and enforce them in very specific ways. The side effect is that some things slip through the cracks. By the way, yes, that's what's posted in A1, but what really matters is what's in the ban manual. Those are the general, outward-facing rules. How they're enforced is clearly not covered.

        If you think it's important to address those things that slip through the cracks, it's time to take a stand and change it!
        "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
        -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

        Comment


        • #34
          Staff did not help me a staffer as harassment towards me went out of control. in fact trans slurs were thrown at me so often even on staff chat it was happening regularly.. something a dean in days before you guys would have stopped immediately.. as the same they would towards abuse of a persons religious ideas or skin color or gender.. It was not perfect but it was much better than what has been allowed to happen in the present.

          You say staff all rolled their eyes when I was let back?? That is funny I had multiple staffers pm me saying how unfair I was treated. You do realize because I am trans a lot of this trolling started on me as a result of that when I came out both in my real life and here on the game. No issues in 2006 when I was in the closet.. zip none, I was an up and coming staffer doing a great job. I had people pushing me to be s-mod.. many of them. People in the zone have also always fixated on me over my play style too though and that being contention and frustrated people who were fighting me in game too,, Terrible things started being said time and time again to me by trolls and I'll be damned if I'll let abuse towards me slide without a fight where I stood up for myself. As a result staff grew uncomfortable.. Jessup was always into with "people" you thought.. rather than addressing where it started. DEANS ALLOWED IT.. from the top down this came to be. You threw your hands up.. you failed to protect me.. a fellow staffer when you should have. I've explained time and time again the issues.. but to you the drama was more than it was worth.. the drama of me defending myself against lies and slander and bigotry was making you both uncomfortable. You admitted this yourself to me.. more trouble than it was worth.. but the core issues why they were not addressed not looked upon. You both failed me by saying do ?ignores.. when the harassment on me as staff started .. ban mods were NEVER told to do ?ignores.. WE WERE STAFF. Another change you two implemented .. I was to be respected,, I earned it by hard work and dedication to the game.. or I should have been in my position. I wasn't though.. I'm quite sure henry or you in my position would be very pissed off too.. Imagine if YOU were on the receiving end of all this after the work you put into the game only to be shunned and fired after years of dedication. You twisted the facts .. and punished me for not doing ?ignore as staff.. improper from the get go...?. It is what it is though now.. the game is dying and near dead. Nothing will ever be as it was. People grew up.. they went to other games ect ect. We all know TW time is almost up. It certainly is for me.. I have a foul taste in my mouth because of how this transpired. You both let me down.. you did not comprehend what was going on. I've become bitter and angry here and it is unhealthy both in my real life and to the game as a result. What did I do to deserve this.. I responded to hate and stood up for myself. I was not only allowed to sink but purposely sunk....henry obviously had no intention of working with me nor did you. It was cruel the way this transpired... You failed me.. I deserved better.


          Believe me I know what your trans friend went through mentally.. imagine how she must have struggled and how low she mentally went.. even things she cared about and committed to were likely taken away from her by forces she had no control of.. or so she was convinced by an often cruel murderous world us trans people face. The looks, the laughs, the sometimes in your face rude disparaging comments, perhaps violence and sexual abuse from men.. maybe even from women. Society as a whole telling her she was not one of them. A compounding of things leading to mental despair to the sad point that her very existence was too much to bare. Constant struggling in a world she felt could not embrace her. Mental health deteriorating. Even things she committed herself to and people she loved and worked with likely many betrayed her trust too. They say they accept us but at the core most of them struggle to fully and we can tell . I can't blame people unaware of the trans life experience either as it is a hard adjustment for them too to understand and I don't want to be unfair to their discomfort either which may be very real too. Believe me hun.. I know the drill, I've cried with them, I've had friends die, I've seen them crumble, I've seen the substance abuse, the legal problems and discrimination we are so disproportionate to face. I've done it myself. I've experienced it myself. This is NOT just internet trolling for me on this game I face.. it is my daily existence too ..all us.. trans people. My support groups I belong to I've shared the struggles with trans girls and guys and seen these exact difficulties time and time again. Besides Nixi I know of only 2 other trans people in the history of this game I've met. I don't know if your friend was open about it,, if not maybe wisely so.. just a girl on the game,, much easier.. maybe she was out. I don't know, I'm sorry to have lost another sister hearing this from you. I'm sorry you lost her too. ...Which is why my point that this trolling is completely unacceptable on this game and telling people to ?ignore and continue to allow it toward the community at large is a true travesty. It is not imaginary because it is internet.. real people struggling more than anyone knows are having attacks online hurt them deeply more than people can know.. and yes to the point of real suicide. IT IS NOTHING TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. DEPRESSION IS REAL KILLER. It is not only the trans and gays ect who face it. It is pervasive in all walks of life in this twisted sick world we live in.We should and can be better. At times I think mentally stable ones living in this fked up world are the real mental cases. Any sensitive person with humanity in them will see this world is a cruel messed up place. Sometimes I think mentally ill people are just reacting to a fcked up environment imposed on them... it isn't them .. it is the world doing this to them...which is why there is NO PLACE for cyber bullying like what has devolved here in our game that came to be at all new lows.. People are all the time trolling each other and attacking each other. It is unhealthy , I never used to do it.. now I do even because of this sick history I have with so many players over the years and the foul things they said or did to me here. The leaders of the zone are ultimately responsible for this sadness I feel.
          TWDT-J CHAMPION POWER 2018
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          • #35
            Originally posted by qan View Post
            You weren't banned from staff; you were fired. You thought a bot was sending in an automated call about another player suggesting someone kill themselves on team chat. That's not strictly against the rules, though the banops might be able to make a case for it. The correct response would have been to talk to the player making the call, talking to the player making the comments, and getting a log to forward to the ban ops. You silenced the player making the report without talking to anyone, and without having seen any kind of log.

            Regarding staff policy in general, though, logs aren't necessary for any sort of firing or disciplinary action. It's all on a case by case basis.



            That log is always reviewed by the ban ops, who oversee each and every ban to make sure it follows policy.

            Tucker is the Head Ban Operator, so technically the only person who watches him are other members of upper staff. He has probably the most fluidity of any member of staff in his interpretation of the rules, as he is in charge of maintaining them, and is therefore more likely to be able to abuse those rules. (Not suggesting he does.)

            Here's the section from our ban manual on spam. Like most rule/lawbooks, it relies on language that is open to interpretation. For example, what is considered "unnecessary" text is not well-defined.

            My guess is that people had been complaining about you. I've seen your typing style; it does tend to dominate a chat. Have you considered typing more words on a single line so as not to be so annoying to other people? I understand that you don't care very much at all about other people, but please try to see things from someone else's point of view from time to time.
            Typically people don't approach me and ask if I can tone it down. I've never seen staff take an interest beyond being a tyrant as their first approach. Apparently they open with threats like "Shut up or I will silence you." Try that in real life and see it's effective. It might work on cowards who are easy to bully, it doesn't work on me, not even with a loaded gun to my head would that work on me. No one commands me. Staff could benefit from a distraction policy in how they deal with people. Hire more staff so "time" is a none-issue, then do as I suggested before. Have a team of people who redirect pub conversations, make them unaware of each other, make sure staff doesn't know who they are, and make sure no one else does either. This way harmful pub topics can easily be redirected to better ones. You could also have mods themselves messaging players and asking what's wrong, and just generally distracting them and taking up their time in PMs until they calm down. The only time anyone ever asked me anything was POID, and we ended up having a 20 minute convo. He's not even staff, but his action was better than anything staff ever did.

            There is still ?IGNORE. I don't ignore evade, I really don't see the issue with making an ignore.txt and never hearing me in game again. I'm literally begging for this. I want to be ignored by intolerant people who call for bans/silences instead of ignoring me. Fucking ignore me, and lets keep it that way permanently. I don't need you to read what I type.

            If I were a mod and people were complaining, I would have literally told them did you try ?ignore Falconeer, and then if they persisted I would have told them to stop abusing help function, and warned them instead. That's what a proper moderator would do. Tucker obviously prefers to be used as a tool by other trolls/people, or he has a personal bias against me.

            Comment


            • #36
              I'm pretty sure there is a new line in Staff guidelines now saying:

              Do not under any circumstances appoint wiibimbo as Dean of Staff as he would make this zone fun again. We don't want this at all.
              "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
              Napoleon Hill


              wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
              Dral>I can get implants

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Jessup View Post

                I've posted this 2 times and you never seem to address it. THESE ARE THE RULES PLAYERS MUST ABIDE BY!!

                https://i.imgur.com/b7gI7V6.jpg
                The spam rule needs to be eliminated or spam needs a proper definition (but i would just delete that rule entirely, especially since verbal harassment can be calling someone a noob, and excessive needs to be defined).

                I would annihilate these rules and make them better.

                The very last rule needs to go. Text does not disrupt a game because ?ignore exists. Therefore you need a rule on ?ignore evaders, and a rule for greifers; that is people who use actions to disrupt the game. In which case the punishment would be that they are spectated.

                I would also list all punishments publicly and not base them on history, it's the same punishment every time. And I would make the punishments proportional to the offense. You don't get banned for text, you get silenced for text.

                Why is no one implementing my rule change suggestions? It shows how backwards everyone here is, and how much your ego is getting in the way of doing the right thing. You know what if it helps I'll disappear for a year, and you take these suggestions and propose them as your own. Will that settle your egos? Fucking people.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Falconner for sysop
                  wii for dean
                  jessup head of trans-parency
                  make tw great again

                  ps

                  down with twd killer henry

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                    Staff did not help me a staffer as harassment towards me went out of control. in fact trans slurs were thrown at me so often even on staff chat it was happening regularly.. something a dean in days before you guys would have stopped immediately.. as the same they would towards abuse of a persons religious ideas or skin color or gender.. It was not perfect but it was much better than what has been allowed to happen in the present.

                    You say staff all rolled their eyes when I was let back?? That is funny I had multiple staffers pm me saying how unfair I was treated. You do realize because I am trans a lot of this trolling started on me as a result of that when I came out both in my real life and here on the game. No issues in 2006 when I was in the closet.. zip none, I was an up and coming staffer doing a great job. I had people pushing me to be s-mod.. many of them. People in the zone have also always fixated on me over my play style too though and that being contention and frustrated people who were fighting me in game too,, Terrible things started being said time and time again to me by trolls and I'll be damned if I'll let abuse towards me slide without a fight where I stood up for myself. As a result staff grew uncomfortable.. Jessup was always into with "people" you thought.. rather than addressing where it started. DEANS ALLOWED IT.. from the top down this came to be. You threw your hands up.. you failed to protect me.. a fellow staffer when you should have. I've explained time and time again the issues.. but to you the drama was more than it was worth.. the drama of me defending myself against lies and slander and bigotry was making you both uncomfortable. You admitted this yourself to me.. more trouble than it was worth.. but the core issues why they were not addressed not looked upon. You both failed me by saying do ?ignores.. when the harassment on me as staff started .. ban mods were NEVER told to do ?ignores.. WE WERE STAFF. Another change you two implemented .. I was to be respected,, I earned it by hard work and dedication to the game.. or I should have been in my position. I wasn't though.. I'm quite sure henry or you in my position would be very pissed off too.. Imagine if YOU were on the receiving end of all this after the work you put into the game only to be shunned and fired after years of dedication. You twisted the facts .. and punished me for not doing ?ignore as staff.. improper from the get go...?. It is what it is though now.. the game is dying and near dead. Nothing will ever be as it was. People grew up.. they went to other games ect ect. We all know TW time is almost up. It certainly is for me.. I have a foul taste in my mouth because of how this transpired. You both let me down.. you did not comprehend what was going on. I've become bitter and angry here and it is unhealthy both in my real life and to the game as a result. What did I do to deserve this.. I responded to hate and stood up for myself. I was not only allowed to sink but purposely sunk....henry obviously had no intention of working with me nor did you. It was cruel the way this transpired... You failed me.. I deserved better.


                    Believe me I know what your trans friend went through mentally.. imagine how she must have struggled and how low she mentally went.. even things she cared about and committed to were likely taken away from her by forces she had no control of.. or so she was convinced by an often cruel murderous world us trans people face. The looks, the laughs, the sometimes in your face rude disparaging comments, perhaps violence and sexual abuse from men.. maybe even from women. Society as a whole telling her she was not one of them. A compounding of things leading to mental despair to the sad point that her very existence was too much to bare. Constant struggling in a world she felt could not embrace her. Mental health deteriorating. Even things she committed herself to and people she loved and worked with likely many betrayed her trust too. They say they accept us but at the core most of them struggle to fully and we can tell . I can't blame people unaware of the trans life experience either as it is a hard adjustment for them too to understand and I don't want to be unfair to their discomfort either which may be very real too. Believe me hun.. I know the drill, I've cried with them, I've had friends die, I've seen them crumble, I've seen the substance abuse, the legal problems and discrimination we are so disproportionate to face. I've done it myself. I've experienced it myself. This is NOT just internet trolling for me on this game I face.. it is my daily existence too ..all us.. trans people. My support groups I belong to I've shared the struggles with trans girls and guys and seen these exact difficulties time and time again. Besides Nixi I know of only 2 other trans people in the history of this game I've met. I don't know if your friend was open about it,, if not maybe wisely so.. just a girl on the game,, much easier.. maybe she was out. I don't know, I'm sorry to have lost another sister hearing this from you. I'm sorry you lost her too. ...Which is why my point that this trolling is completely unacceptable on this game and telling people to ?ignore and continue to allow it toward the community at large is a true travesty. It is not imaginary because it is internet.. real people struggling more than anyone knows are having attacks online hurt them deeply more than people can know.. and yes to the point of real suicide. IT IS NOTHING TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY. DEPRESSION IS REAL KILLER. It is not only the trans and gays ect who face it. It is pervasive in all walks of life in this twisted sick world we live in.We should and can be better. At times I think mentally stable ones living in this fked up world are the real mental cases. Any sensitive person with humanity in them will see this world is a cruel messed up place. Sometimes I think mentally ill people are just reacting to a fcked up environment imposed on them... it isn't them .. it is the world doing this to them...which is why there is NO PLACE for cyber bullying like what has devolved here in our game that came to be at all new lows.. People are all the time trolling each other and attacking each other. It is unhealthy , I never used to do it.. now I do even because of this sick history I have with so many players over the years and the foul things they said or did to me here. The leaders of the zone are ultimately responsible for this sadness I feel.
                    Qan already explained that your first line of correction was to ?ignore, and staff couldn't help you unless the perpetrators tried to alias around it. That's all you had to do, and apparently you refused. You talk about a lack of rules and procedure following as the problem with staff, yet you willingly avoided those very protections in favor of what? Facing down your accusers? That was your choice, and shouldn't be blamed on anyone but you. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

                    We all face adversity and prejudice, Jessup. What most of us do is fight against it or rise above it. I've had many toxic people in my life that I've cut out. We don't go running to authorities for solutions, we accept that life has good and bad people and choose where we live among them (barring the law and enforcement of it). This same philosophy applies to subspace. Instead of blaming others or allowing their hate to affect you, remove them from your life and keep those who celebrate you instead.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      The issue here is you do need someone active in head of staff to keep track of the moderators. If I was a sysop of a zone, and hypothetically Jessup was a moderator, and we all had rules we agreed upon to enforce, lets suppose he broke the policies behind enforcing these rules. Either due to clear abuse, or some other reason.

                      The first thing I would do is assign a different moderator to deal with the problem player that incurred Jessup to abuse. This eliminates potential for it happening again. My responsibility as staff therefore would be primarily to keep moderator staff active, and full of people so i can rotate people around easily.

                      The second thing I would do, is probably not fire him/her. I would say "hey, we agreed to these rules", and see if it can be worked out - see if they still agree with those rules and methods of enforcing them... and then you can take it from there. But mainly since I would be online every day, I could undo abuse quickly. If I had access to a developer, or was a dev myself I would make a notification system every-time someone is silenced/banned. Could be by email, so then I could respond instantly. Because abuse is undone fast, I really wouldn't need to fire him, he likely would get frustrated and quit because every time he tries to silence someone, i login and undo it. But also, I doubt it would get that far, pretty sure if there is a common ground everyone can agree to the rules and enforce them based on those agreements. Bottom line is he would have some chances at least to operate as a good moderator, but it would also minimally effect the offender/victim.

                      But this a dying game, we lack a big mod staff, we lack active syops, and we lack development because of really shit attitudes from people in charge like qan... etc.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jessup
                        Which is why my point that this trolling is completely unacceptable on this game and telling people to ?ignore and continue to allow it toward the community at large is a true travesty. It is not imaginary because it is internet.. real people struggling more than anyone knows are having attacks online hurt them deeply more than people can know.. and yes to the point of real suicide. IT IS NOTHING TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY.
                        Thanks for taking the time to write. I understand what you're saying, and agree that it can be a problem. But I'm ever the pragmatist. So I'll always be asking: what do you think is the solution? In the end we've got to look at solutions to the problem, rather than identifying it as a problem over and over. What will fix this?

                        Originally posted by Falconeer
                        The second thing I would do, is probably not fire him/her. I would say "hey, we agreed to these rules", and see if it can be worked out - see if they still agree with those rules and methods of enforcing them... and then you can take it from there. But mainly since I would be online every day, I could undo abuse quickly. If I had access to a developer, or was a dev myself I would make a notification system every-time someone is silenced/banned. Could be by email, so then I could respond instantly. Because abuse is undone fast, I really wouldn't need to fire him, he likely would get frustrated and quit because every time he tries to silence someone, i login and undo it.
                        We do have such a system. All our bans are pushed to Slack, where all mods can see them (the details of the bans, including logs, can be viewed in-game). And as mentioned before, this is essentially the job of the Ban Ops, to be constantly reviewing bans and ensuring they're done correctly. Perhaps the move to remove Jessup was rather hasty, but it was probably the worst series of mistakes on a call I've seen in several years, and did not bode well for her return. I'm not saying she's not capable of being a moderator. Obviously she still continues to care a lot about the game, and wants to help. Those are serious assets. But clearly some training and perhaps a test are in order, as clearly, many things have changed since she first started as a mod. And some time for the air to clear, as well.

                        As for eliminating the spam rule, I don't think many people would be in support of it, but you'd be welcome to try to get some momentum going toward removing it, perhaps get a short proposal together, if it's something you feel strongly enough about.
                        "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
                        -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

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                        • #42
                          I still argue trolling isn't that big of a deal, the big deal is 'harassment' which is unwanted attacks. If you can't ?ignore someone, or refuse to ?ignore them, then you've failed to take the first steps in saying...

                          "This attack you're giving, either directly toward me, or to another player, is not wanted. I no longer want to see it. I no longer want to participate."

                          Once you ignore someone, you are saying 'NO' and if they then choose to ?ignore evade, that becomes harassment.

                          Until then, you have to realize... like it's pretty clear... there's no way you can't realize this... we aren't a zone/game of saints. I'm not perfect, I see myself as an anti-hero, other people see me as downright evil. Qan isn't perfect, and I honestly had a way higher opinion of him until today, and nobody is perfect...

                          People will lie and say they don't want to hear you, but why aren't they even taking the first step and ?ignoring the trouble maker? And I would argue it's because there are many people who want to see actual harm done to others who "dare" to versus them with text or oppose them. They want to get these people banned and then laugh at them and rub it in, which is even a more extreme form of bullying I would argue. A lot of people say they hate my text but literally never ignore me, and I don't understand why, I swear to god I might not change names in game for like months at a time, (and in fact only recently have i been alternating between falconeer and falco-girl, before this I was falconeer for years) but I would definitely be ignored for a long period. All I can assume is that i'm entertaining or people actually like having an enemy/someone to versus against, or they just really aren't that bothered by me at all, not enough to take the step to ?ignore me.

                          Mainly I'm saying trolling isn't an issue, so long as players have a reliable way out and ?ignore can actually function for a period of time.

                          100% if rabs ignore list is real, then he hasn't heard from me in game for months and months. So it's a none issue to me, my trolling.

                          P.S qan what at least begins to fix trolling, is letting people feel apart of the community (ie letting them help), being kind to them, and basically realize as staff you aren't just a caretaker of people you like, but everyone in the game. if you fail me, or someone else, then you're failing as staff... with that outlook you can achieve a lot. if you don't even try.. if you just assume the worst, then nothing changes. there's definitely a time to be tough with real assholes. i'm not one of them, my request to help was and is legit and real, i did the work already for the DSB discord, why would I not want to see the actual subspace discord benefit from the same features and care?

                          Also beer hunter has said he realizes his role is to talk to people with mental illness, that's literally how he views subspacers... now... i don't know if that's very politically correct of him... but pretty sure mental illness is wide-spread in society, and everyone can fall into bouts of it, especially given the nature of what subspace has become in the past 20 years. qan, i'm all in for not fighting, if it means some development happens.
                          Last edited by Falconeer; 12-07-2018, 02:23 AM.

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                          • #43
                            I like how every topic someone makes ends up talking about Jessup and the problems she had in the past. It's hard to discuss anything nowadays on the TW forums.
                            "Action is the real measure of intelligence. "
                            Napoleon Hill


                            wiibimbo>I'm gonna take u out next week for a beer and pizza at Leonardo's...no homo tho! I prefer big boobs
                            Dral>I can get implants

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                            • #44
                              qan people tell me to kill myself all the time, and then we have qan denying me the ability to help the discord because i was mean to him. *face palm*

                              okay mtine we can talk about you, i say give mtine staff if he's willing to work with henry saari.

                              Also people assume when I say "If I was sysop" as me saying I want to be sysop. No, i'm trying to say i'm not a hypocrite with double standards and that I actually believe in what I'm writing here. I'm able to put myself in your shoes and say firmly that I would treat people a certain way. I'm trying to make a point. i honestly could care less about that level of access beyond development abilities that come with it. All my thoughts on moderation, the majority are development ideas, and some require an AS3 server.
                              Last edited by Falconeer; 12-07-2018, 10:06 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Jesus, even with the zone dying all you faggots can do is argue semantics about something useless like Jessup being a mod and yet you still wonder why the zone collapsed. 1. It was going to happen no matter what and 2. You let faggotry and liberalism corrupt staff and instead let dick sucking determine power structures over capability. This is always the end result of such a system.
                                Rabble Rabble Rabble

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