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  • Dreams of my Father

    Many here know of the struggles facing white men in society today. It's suddenly wrong to be white and nobody has faced and understood this struggle more than former CEO, Papa John. Recently he was fired for saynig the "N" word at a high-level company meeting. What the press didn't understand is that he was merely quoting someone and in the original quote the person who spoke was black, making it ok.

    Fast forward a few days, maybe hours, to yesterday, where after schooling the alt-right TW crew I decided to fire up some Ice Cube and finally play the game - sounds like any other day right?

    Well in my jubilation I accidentally quoted Ice Cube and didn't use any clever way to 'hide my racism' so to speak and ended up using the n word in its looser, more jovial form. I believe the exact lyric I quoted was, "wanna talk about this concrete? [expletive] I'm a scholar."

    30 minutes later.. some 3 letter nobody named 'vys' tells me not to be racist in chat, obviously sent by the alt-right group that I was owning earlier. I explained to him that it's a quote and I'm not racist, but he just doesn't want to hear it.

    Yet every day someone is called a f*g.. someone brings up a penis, etc. Seems like being unable to say the n-word has really bothered some people, and my saying it roused an envy they could only dream of. This wasn't my intention and I hope deeply that there is a day when you can express your own racist beliefs in a more overt manner, perhaps at a board meeting.

    But until then I propose treating the slurs equally. People who say flag get warned etc. Not just selective hit jobs on the people daring enough to suggest that it's actually Trump's supporters who are indeed the retarded ones.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Dierienow; 07-25-2018, 04:34 AM.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by Dierienow View Post
    Recently he was fired for saynig the "N" word at a high-level company meeting.
    Edgy.

    I agree tho. Saying the N word doesn't mean you're racist. And you have the right to hold racist beliefs anyway. So f everyone who says otherwise.

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    • #3
      i dont want to get into a big debate or start a big debate...

      this has been a long standing issue in TW as long as i can remember which is about 20 years lol. sure ive come and gone.. but always end up coming back lol

      usage of the word... was instructed to me that we look at the context of its use... which is common sense.. if you are using it in a derogative manner... then take your ban and grow up lol (i dont mean you, i mean anyone in general here)
      If you are using it as a term of endearment... then most of us are going to wipe it off as clean usage... and it doesn't have to be the n word alone it can be any racist type comment towards any group or person or gender...

      there is far too many wannabe pretender racists in TW.. don't know of they think its cute or funny or living in the shadow of internet makes them brave or maybe they are just down right racist...

      just remember.. its easy to hate on staff the second you get your hand slapped for breaking the rules... and to finallly get to the point of my replies.. some days its a never ending repetition of expletives and hate and racisim it just wears on you... so maybe someone says something that might not be down right racist... like in your case where its a quote.... but at the end of the day if your patience has worn thin you might just see the Bot catch the word and take action....

      everyone has a right to play the game.. and no one should ever feel bullied or subjected to racist comments...

      i wont stand for it... a few found out lately and now have a hate on for me... it doesn't matter if i we don't happen to be on the moment its said.. if its an old call it doesn't matter... someone was logged saying it and its all logged.. if i come back to the pc and see the log.. i will still immediate take appropriate actions... and i hate having to be that guy.. but the rules are there and should be upheld....

      anyways... sorry for a ramble... and hopefully next time there's no confusion on the usage
      Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dierienow View Post
        Many here know of the struggles facing white men in society today. It's suddenly wrong to be white and nobody has faced and understood this struggle more than former CEO, Papa John. Recently he was fired for saynig the "N" word at a high-level company meeting. What the press didn't understand is that he was merely quoting someone and in the original quote the person who spoke was black, making it ok.

        Fast forward a few days, maybe hours, to yesterday, where after schooling the alt-right TW crew I decided to fire up some Ice Cube and finally play the game - sounds like any other day right?

        Well in my jubilation I accidentally quoted Ice Cube and didn't use any clever way to 'hide my racism' so to speak and ended up using the n word in its looser, more jovial form. I believe the exact lyric I quoted was, "wanna talk about this concrete? [expletive] I'm a scholar."

        30 minutes later.. some 3 letter nobody named 'vys' tells me not to be racist in chat, obviously sent by the alt-right group that I was owning earlier. I explained to him that it's a quote and I'm not racist, but he just doesn't want to hear it.

        Yet every day someone is called a f*g.. someone brings up a penis, etc. Seems like being unable to say the n-word has really bothered some people, and my saying it roused an envy they could only dream of. This wasn't my intention and I hope deeply that there is a day when you can express your own racist beliefs in a more overt manner, perhaps at a board meeting.

        But until then I propose treating the slurs equally. People who say flag get warned etc. Not just selective hit jobs on the people daring enough to suggest that it's actually Trump's supporters who are indeed the retarded ones.

        Thank you.
        This is because staff selectively allows real harassment and hate speech and have no consistent or intelligent approach in dealing with it. I have asked for help against hate speech directed towards me on a daily basis for months now with zero results. I could show 100's of instances like this and am thinking I may expose how poorly staff is being handled with these matter soon in much more detail but below is yesterdays abuse which I did a help call on only to be ignored with zero responses from staff. Sysops were in the room when this happened and the help call I made was completely ignored and I did not receive any response which has happened to me and time and time and time again. Nothing is ever done to stop LGBTQ hate speech. This is not the only type hate speech ignored either but is a clear example of the ridiculous way things are being implemented on this game by staff in these regards. There is a large contingent of players who see how poorly staff is dealing with this obviously and this topic must be properly addressed in a public and consistent way.





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        • #5
          And to clarify I did not PM this player first. I missed the screenshot of the original pm to me, Below is listed start of PM to me.

          Jessup=Mal> trannies are sub human (WAS A PUBLIC STATEMENT WHICH MADE ME DO A HELP CALL)

          (Imagine the above statement being said of black people openly while using the N word) This is preposterous nothing is done and this type talk is allowed to stand and willingly overlooked time and time again )

          P Jessup=Mal> youre a blight

          P Jessup=Mal> repen
          P Jessup=Mal> t

          P Jessup> leave me alone u sad troll
          Last edited by Jessup; 07-25-2018, 01:53 PM.
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          • #6
            IMO that player should have been banned for bullying. People who use the internet to target an individual should be receiving real world criminal charges.

            I don't support the concept of "hate speech" though. The LGBTQ folks, particularly via twitter, take offence from all sorts of things and twist the words to make it look like the speaker meant something which they neither said, meant, or implied. If you let them make the rules it'll be 1984 overnight.

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            • #7
              Bosshawk: Thank you for taking the time to write that. You're correct that TW has a very immature playerbase (although everyone is in agreement that nobody younger than 25 plays this game..) that make moderating the game a challenge for people with a conscience. Your sacrifice is appreciated.

              Jessup: I am on your side I think staff are too lenient towards targeting one group. It's not a problem if they are protecting every group equally but they only target 'racists' aka people who said the 'forbidden word'. Meanwhile you have to suffer sustained bullying (which imo started because you had a playstyle people couldn't deal with.. and they used it to describe/bully me when they couldn't kill me), f*g is used every day and not as a quote but an insult, and so on. If they equally persecuted people there'd be less room to complain. I'm not angry that someone reported me, I'm angry that the system was abused by people to target me. I pretty much solve my disputes with these idiots by playing.. something they rarely do.. and they don't even need to play the game to harass me they can use the chat system entirely.

              Everyone else:

              Today a critic of Putin and a supporter of feminist ideas was found dead in her Paris apartment from 'suicide'. It could've been a feminist, an LGBTQ+ activist, or just a poignant critic - they are all targeted by Putin's regime. We're entering a new era where people were scared for a moment that the world could improve - otherwise would these intellectual/cultural icons be targeted? There are many people who don't want the world to improve and this is an era where you can pay for propaganda, pay to have your message sent across the world, pay to have an expert claim what you want, etc . Authoritarian/right-wing types, under the guise of 'bringing things back to when they were better', are using this false message capability to influence people across the world. Unfortunately its seen as a dichotomy: "every opinion is equal" which of course isn't true but that's how its seen. You get a stupid opinion? (In their mind) Then they get a free stupid opinion. There is no longer a necessity to follow logic or reason when a 'news' article can be made up claiming anything you want: a flat earth, natural climate change on 100 year scales, etc. They're almost always fairly intelligent or skillful and take this real superiority and extend it to the political realm - inherently bereft of concrete, absolute facts in almost all situations - to crazy ends. What starts as a tirade against vegans almost inevitably ends up as a rant against Hillary, millenials, the left, and so on. It's very rare that someone has a nuanced view on all these subjects but that's the state of the modern right who need to seek out more extreme ways to win in light of the world moving forward without their salty asses.

              I hope that sheds some insight on my own perspective as well. I like holding nuanced views - it never prevents people from putting you in a box but the labels people put on it are usually wrong. I think its stupid that a word is banned and I can't say it - it invites all sorts of exceptions that can benefit nobody. I still respect the rule IRL out of respect (I try not to call anybody by a slur.. it's intellectually lazy) but to extend that online invites problems. So I am not just disagreeing because I got punished its very nuanced. Very rarely do you see the nuance in any of these tweets or facebook posts that blow up, very rarely see both sides.. and that is true whether it benefits your political affiliation at the time or not.

              I'm not sure we can ever solve bullying, liars, corruption, even politically motivated killings. But I do know that letting these things exist without a fight is what allows them to win. The alt-right has taken root like a virus in people's heads.. they don't even see reality anymore they see their Infowars/Fox News spin and apply it homogenously to entire peoples. Clearly if there was one stupid trans person they must ALL be like that. You think that reasoning is stupid but I see it all the time. It's like if you supported Obama, the alt-right thinks you HAD to support his foreign policy, drone strikes, etc. Completely ignoring the reality we're faced with in the middle east. I don't support any wars but if this is the world I was born into then there is hardly any room for my ideals is there? If Obama started wars like Bush did you will see my extreme hatred make no doubt about it.. but it doesn't anger me nearly as much if Obama continues those wars because we have something invested now, or have more responsibilities to the world or our people now. They're not two sides of the same coin - one person is a warmonger the other is carrying out a mission so that it doesn't fail spectacularly and turn out to be pointless. Yet the right always atracks Obama for his foreign policies because "that's what the left did to Bush". It sickens me, none of these pea-brains ever fight fairly because the only fight is getting their guy in power.
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              • #8
                trans are gross
                dont touch me
                Leland

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                • #9
                  idk why u guys think these things only happen on SS..? i get that monitoring pub is your full-time job but sounds like you need a new field of work cause obviously you're too soft for the e-world

                  P.S stop being lazy and use ignore.txt instead of asking staff to drop their irl matters to make sure no1 makes you feel butthurt
                  8:beam> yo tiny i have some good news for u
                  8:Tiny> U COMING SUNDAY BRO?
                  8:beam> i wont be here sunday but you could save on your car insurance by switching to geico

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Heaven View Post
                    P.S stop being lazy and use ignore.txt instead of asking staff to drop their irl matters to make sure no1 makes you feel butthurt
                    i am in agreement here.. what is also stated is simply that you have the right to choose to ?ignore anyone in the game.... and thus they are unable to pm you, can see their chat thus removing the issue from yourself...and if someones going to take the troll bait and keep on pushing the trolls just to make them target you more then its really on the individiual... that is definitely your first line of defence yet most dont use it...
                    Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

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                    • #11
                      So why doesn't staff just ignore N words especially if not in a hateful context? Why doesn't staff just ignore all racism and say use ?ignore to anyone offended? When is the line drawn from a minor instance to racism or a derogatory type speech or bullying? Was the case above I mentioned a hateful, derogatory, bullying one in your opinion or not? There are serious flaws telling people to just ?ignore. Was Dierienow being warned for quoting an icecube song appropriate or inappropriate? I will be happy to explain in more detail why staff is very wrong on this stance if I must which seems to be the case for me to make in the near future if staff continues to face this issue with answers of just ?ignore. You are feeding a culture of hate and bullying while empowering trolls and saying it is acceptable behavior for people to do this to the entire playerbase by allowing these type issues to continue. I will remind you clearly of the rules posted on the public arena.


                      Last edited by Jessup; 07-25-2018, 06:32 PM.
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                      • #12
                        I'm far from the final word on this -- the final word always must be the community -- but I believe the reasoning behind enforcing racism more harshly than other forms of discrimination is because today racism's condemned almost universally, in virtually all realms of society.

                        There are very few people who are openly racist. Just like there are few people who will admit to smacking around their kids. Or acknowledge what happened with their cousin when they were 14, other than by avoiding eye contact over potluck potato salad.

                        But in modern society, you can hate liberals or conservatives with a passion. You can make fun of and disparage religion. You can openly show contempt to gay folks, trans folks, what have you. And while you may not be the most likeable person in so doing -- and in fact, people may rightly think of you as a bit of an asshole -- you won't be quite as much a social pariah as the basement-dwelling guy who's always posting dodgy PNGs with racial IQ stats, and blaming the Jews for all of his problems.


                        In TW, generally, we enforce any hard racism. To refer to this specific case: people, particularly black people, usually don't use the hard "er" but rather say "nigga." I don't think I've ever heard a black person say "nigger" except to specifically point out that the derogatory term for blacks that denotes a slave (and not a human being) is quite different than "nigga." To call someone "nigger" is to specifically say, "You're not a person." It's universally agreed that this is not OK. Please don't use "the n-word."


                        The point is, TW enforcement policy mirrors social mores. It's not clearly delineated but rather a bit vague. So if some behavior, such as racism, is universally condemned, it's generally punished. But if it's not unequivocal, for example when many members of many religions believe homosexuality is a sin, as a neutral party, the point is not to advance a position of social justice or to create a safe space at the expense of free speech. Instead, imperfect though it may be, we advocate using ?ignore. Then if the ?ignore is evaded, we consider the evasion an attempt to bypass something the ignorer clearly doesn't want to engage in, and can act on it. (We are old internet, and old internet doesn't censor unless necessary.)


                        I've had many gay friends in my life ("Many of my best friends are black!"). One of my best friends turned out to be trans a bit later on. (RIP Stultus/E. Love you, my poor friend.)

                        But that doesn't mean I advocate silencing people for homophobic stuff. I might think you're just not a very thoughtful person for unironically calling someone a faggot, and are the sort of person I'd avoid talking to at a party. But I'm not going to demand that someone kick you out of the party for being a douchebag. You're tolerable within a certain crowd, though that crowd isn't mine.

                        I'm saying my personal opinion doesn't matter on this, and neither does anyone else's -- individually. Rather it's more, democratically, what we believe as a community. Any of our rules can be changed. If there's a wish to change the rules, or how we enforce them, let's do so. There's no reason not to. But let's have some kind of real majority opinion on it.

                        There's still a votebot readily available. If you'd like to make a change in how things are handled, then put together a petition, get a few people to agree it should be voted on, and let's change something that most of us can agree is in the best interest of the zone. It doesn't have to be anything all that professional, just something clear enough that people have an exact idea of what it is.

                        We're small enough that we don't even need representatives, so we can operate democratically rather than as a republic, as in the US, UK, Japan and so on... all those "democratic" nations that are anything but. Let's give it a go, eh. If you see something you want changed, say what it is and what you'd like it changed to. Then get support and let's vote.
                        "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
                        -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                          So why doesn't staff just ignore N words especially if not in a hateful context? Why doesn't staff just ignore all racism and say use ?ignore to anyone offended? When is the line drawn from a minor instance to racism or a derogatory type speech or bullying? Was the case above I mentioned a hateful, derogatory, bullying one in your opinion or not? There are serious flaws telling people to just ?ignore. Was Dierienow being warned for quoting an icecube song appropriate or inappropriate? I will be happy to explain in more detail why staff is very wrong on this stance if I must which seems to be the case for me to make in the near future if staff continues to face this issue with answers of just ?ignore. You are feeding a culture of hate and bullying while empowering trolls and saying it is acceptable behavior for people to do this to the entire playerbase by allowing these type issues to continue. I will remind you clearly of the rules posted on the public arena.
                          honestly i think people go out of their way just to be racist/derogatory towards you because of your personality.. you're a very weird person (something everyone can agree on). somehow it's always you in the crosshair when someone says something in pub chat. you pick up a welfare cheque every 2 weeks so you have minimal interaction with the outside world but im sure if you worked even part-time at mcdonalds you would see things differently. racism/bullying exists everywhere.. am i empowering bullies? no, i just know not to give them any recognition for their actions and they move on, and so should you.
                          8:beam> yo tiny i have some good news for u
                          8:Tiny> U COMING SUNDAY BRO?
                          8:beam> i wont be here sunday but you could save on your car insurance by switching to geico

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Heaven View Post
                            honestly i think people go out of their way just to be racist/derogatory towards you because of your personality.. you're a very weird person (something everyone can agree on). somehow it's always you in the crosshair when someone says something in pub chat. you pick up a welfare cheque every 2 weeks so you have minimal interaction with the outside world but im sure if you worked even part-time at mcdonalds you would see things differently. racism/bullying exists everywhere.. am i empowering bullies? no, i just know not to give them any recognition for their actions and they move on, and so should you.
                            Heaven you obviously do not know me one bit and why you decide to reply and make up lies about me here shows how little regard anyone should have for your opinion. I have NEVER received one penny in any form of a welfare check my entire life and I do work part time 24/7 on call as a property manager and am looking for full time job now. I have recently had to enroll in a charity based medical program to be able to find a cancer surgeon I will see in mid August which is the closest thing to welfare I've ever received and I still pay out of pocket for what I get but at a reduced rate.


                            You have been one of the bigoted trolls out here too in the past. Remember this instance where you where you decided to be derogatory and blame me for any and all problems Trench Wars faced. Real logical of you...

                            Jessup> apparently twdt is on hold i guess cause 3 caps quit with ogron.. think they saw writing on wall there wouldnt be enuff
                            1:Jessup> make 4 squads
                            1:Jessup> or something.. we can adapt
                            1:Heaven> go circle jerk it in EG u tranny
                            1:Henry Saari> This will be figured out
                            1:Jessup> nice heaven nice..
                            1:Heaven> u single handedly killed what was left of tw
                            1:Heaven> tsl and twdt
                            1:qan> heaven chill man

                            Remember this unprovoked attack on me? This is who YOU are. Somehow YOU decide to blame me for Trench Wars failing rofl.. ridiculous

                            I am not really that weird either. I'd love to hear what I do that makes me so weird in your mind. This is a small community now and I think a snowball effect has happened with trolls and I became the focus of a fair percentage of it.. not all.. others get it too I know... this happens possibly because I am honest, possibly because I fight back when I hear lies and slander set against me. As far as I know I'm the only out transgendered/"gay" person on this game currently too who still plays. The toxic environment and insults would make the most sane people stay in the closet here so I don't blame any other lgbtq members for staying quiet about their status but that is not me. I wanted to be honest and be open and real and express my opinions on politics and the world as I see it which is my human right. It is a terrible shame imo this lgbtq hate has become so prevalent here. We have had trans and gays on the game before I know and in the old days the community was much better in treatment of them. Now it has gotten to a new low in toxicity unfortunately. I think lgbtq rights should be up there equally in protections on this game as race and no one should be harassed like I've been without actions being taken to curb the abuse. I feel the same should be said about a persons religious rights too. While I am not religious myself I do respect peoples rights to have their faiths but NOT if they use that faith to propel hate towards members of the community to a point of harassment.
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                            • #15
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