TW Mafia: Sweet Vengeance

[field]

So at this point claims:

halp -vengeful townie.
beast - vengful townie
exalt - vengeful townie or day vig
ffe - vengeful townie
grand - claimed vengeful townie ( but is actually a super saint)
downfall - vengeful townie
ixt - supersaint
kthx - vengeful townie

People remaining unclaimed : willby, backwards, the_paul, field, voth (since he said his vengeful nurse was a joke)

I'm sure some lies are out there about there about claims.

Unvote: ixt
Vote: backwards

How do you propose we verify who is lying, after giving scum all the info they need to form believable fake claims?

That's really not aimed at you, but at Halp (or whoever started role claiming -- am assuming your list is in order).

The most valuable piece of info a townie has at beginning of the game is their role. Halp is experienced enough to know this, and almost always tries to make a big play early in the game. Him fake claiming on d1 is not farfetched to me, and certainly sounds much better than an experienced townie roleclaiming. vote: halp

I wouldn't lynch ixt or grand this phase.

[Exalt]

I hope there's no mafia and we're all vengeful town roles so it's basically just a giant game of last man standing.

That being said, anyone want some side action on who the first person to be vengefully killed is going to be? Best odds have to be on Voth, because if ixt gets lynched and is vengeful, he's 1000000% going to kill Voth.

I rechecked the mafia wiki about supersaint, and after thinking about it, I have a theory about who scum might be. What if scum are all Supersaints instead of Vengeful?

Mafia Wiki says the following:

"A Vengeful player is a one that, when lynched, is awarded the ability to kill any other player as they die.

Vengeful roles are much more commonly Town than Mafia, as Vengeful Mafia roles essentially punish the Town for lynching them."

"A Super Saint is a Vengeful Townie who only kills the person who placed the hammer vote (they do not get to choose)."

Notice how in the second line about Vengeful roles, it says it's much more commonly used as a Town role instead of Mafia, because a Vengeful Mafia player essentially punishes Town for lynching them? SuperSaints can only kill the last player on the lynch, so they don't get to choose. That doesn't punish town more than necessary for trying to fulfill their wincon.

So yeah, with so many people claiming Vengeful Townie, what if Super Saints are scum? I mean the name of the game is Sweet Vengeance. Likely everyone has some type of vengeance role, but scum having the same as town would likely be imbalanced, especially if any of them have some sort of bulletproof. The way to balance it is by using SuperSaints instead.

[Voth]

So baseless lynching is clearly going to be dissuaded because of all the vengeances.

However we can't do much about it first phase. Can confirm Grand and Downfall told me to join this mafia phase so nostalgia is in play however doesnt mean Downfall is innocent.

Why I think Downfall is innocent is not based on game mechanics or the thread so far, just how he acts irl. Meaning I wouldn't be too upset if we have to vote him out.

Ixt gonna defend yourself any further?

Unless I missed something, you claimed vengeful townie, but didn't say a damn thing about being a Saint like ixt yet.

[Voth]

Unless I missed something, you claimed vengeful townie, but didn't say a damn thing about being a Saint like ixt yet.

Meaning you didn't say anything about being a saint until you latched onto ixts claim, hence my vote.

[Downfall]

...you think he took a shot in the dark (as a bad guy) and was the first person to role claim vengeful townie with no specific reason to and coincidentally the entire town happens to be vengeful townies?

i don?t think so

[Downfall]

Above post was to fields post about halp

[Voth]

So at this point claims:

halp -vengeful townie.
beast - vengful townie
exalt - vengeful townie or day vig
ffe - vengeful townie
grand - claimed vengeful townie ( but is actually a super saint)
downfall - vengeful townie
ixt - supersaint
kthx - vengeful townie

People remaining unclaimed : willby, backwards, the_paul, field, voth (since he said his vengeful nurse was a joke)

I'm sure some lies are out there about there about claims.

Unvote: ixt
Vote: backwards

I am town, and I am a vengeful _________.

I will obviously not full fledged roleclaim right now.

[field]

I rechecked the mafia wiki about supersaint, and after thinking about it, I have a theory about who scum might be. What if scum are all Supersaints instead of Vengeful?

Mafia Wiki says the following:

"A Vengeful player is a one that, when lynched, is awarded the ability to kill any other player as they die.

Vengeful roles are much more commonly Town than Mafia, as Vengeful Mafia roles essentially punish the Town for lynching them."

"A Super Saint is a Vengeful Townie who only kills the person who placed the hammer vote (they do not get to choose)."

Notice how in the second line about Vengeful roles, it says it's much more commonly used as a Town role instead of Mafia, because a Vengeful Mafia player essentially punishes Town for lynching them? SuperSaints can only kill the last player on the lynch, so they don't get to choose. That doesn't punish town more than necessary for trying to fulfill their wincon.

So yeah, with so many people claiming Vengeful Townie, what if Super Saints are scum? I mean the name of the game is Sweet Vengeance. Likely everyone has some type of vengeance role, but scum having the same as town would likely be imbalanced, especially if any of them have some sort of bulletproof. The way to balance it is by using SuperSaints instead.

I think it'd be too broken, and mass claim would break setup. Plus, scum team would not claim SuperSaint and we already have 2+ claims as such.

[field]

One of the oddest moments in game so far:

-halp claims vengeful townie
-beast votes him, no reason given
-beast unvotes, says he too received vengeful townie PM

Beast's backtracking is suspect.

[Exalt]

I think it'd be too broken, and mass claim would break setup. Plus, scum team would not claim SuperSaint and we already have 2+ claims as such.

Supersaint isn't inherently a scum role, but this game isn't a normal game either. There's no night phase, and the game mechanic seems to be based almost entirely on the vengeful mechanic. Scum already have a huge advantage in being able to steer the votes where they please, and if they have the same free-will vengeful mechanic as townies do, then it's a broken game in their favor. You can't even say they have a chance to die out through rando vengeful shots, because townies have a much larger chance to be the target than scum do through sheer numbers, and if scum do actually get lynched, they 100% will hit a townie every single time.

So yeah, I think the only way to seriously balance it would be if scum were supersaints. Maybe grand and ixt didn't think long and hard about whether it was smart to claim that or not, because maybe they assumed other townies are as well. Perhaps some even are to screw up mass claims, but I think it's a decent enough theory right now that's worth proving right or wrong.

[field]

...you think he took a shot in the dark (as a bad guy) and was the first person to role claim vengeful townie with no specific reason to and coincidentally the entire town happens to be vengeful townies?

i don?t think so

If he was vanilla mafia, he would know that vanillas exist and that they have vengeful modifier.
It looks like this game Vengeful Townie is the "vanilla."

And if any person were to do this, it'd be halp.

[Exalt]

One of the oddest moments in game so far:

-halp claims vengeful townie
-beast votes him, no reason given
-beast unvotes, says he too received vengeful townie PM

Beast's backtracking is suspect.

Of all the things you could've pointed out, none of those were the odd at all, at least not compared to almost anything else that's happened in this game.. Halp literally just claimed what 90% of townies are, which you'd know if you were one yourself. Your suspicion against it shows you likely aren't one, which makes you scummier than him.. As for Beast, his RVS vote isn't any wierder than any others, and him seeing his role being claimed was a valid enough reason to unvote Halp. The entire game didn't claim vengeful townie at that point, so it's ridiculous to think that was scum theater.

You're reaching really hard here, and I'm wondering why? You discount my supersaint theory immediately, then go after the first vengeful townie claim in the game as if that's suspicious or something. Since you clearly aren't a vengeful townie (or you'd not be suspicious of that claim), it means you have a very high chance of being scum. Perhaps you are a Super Saint instead?

[field]

Supersaint isn't inherently a scum role, but this game isn't a normal game either. There's no night phase, and the game mechanic seems to be based almost entirely on the vengeful mechanic. Scum already have a huge advantage in being able to steer the votes where they please, and if they have the same free-will vengeful mechanic as townies do, then it's a broken game in their favor. You can't even say they have a chance to die out through rando vengeful shots, because townies have a much larger chance to be the target than scum do through sheer numbers, and if scum do actually get lynched, they 100% will hit a townie every single time.

So yeah, I think the only way to seriously balance it would be if scum were supersaints. Maybe grand and ixt didn't think long and hard about whether it was smart to claim that or not, because maybe they assumed other townies are as well. Perhaps some even are to screw up mass claims, but I think it's a decent enough theory right now that's worth proving right or wrong.

With no night phase, does that mean scum do not get a nightkill? (Question probably better directed towards RoDNeY)

If so, then that could be how the game is balanced against vengeful scum.

[Beast]

Vengeful modifier, LyLo situations. :P

[field]

Of all the things you could've pointed out, none of those were the odd at all, at least not compared to almost anything else that's happened in this game.. Halp literally just claimed what 90% of townies are, which you'd know if you were one yourself. Your suspicion against it shows you likely aren't one, which makes you scummier than him.. As for Beast, his RVS vote isn't any wierder than any others, and him seeing his role being claimed was a valid enough reason to unvote Halp. The entire game didn't claim vengeful townie at that point, so it's ridiculous to think that was scum theater.

You're reaching really hard here, and I'm wondering why? You discount my supersaint theory immediately, then go after the first vengeful townie claim in the game as if that's suspicious or something. Since you clearly aren't a vengeful townie (or you'd not be suspicious of that claim), it means you have a very high chance of being scum. Perhaps you are a Super Saint instead?

Beast voted for halp AFTER halp claimed. That's what makes it odd.

And no, I'm not Vengeful Townie. I'm SuperSaint (hence why I said I wouldn't vote for ixt or grand).

I wouldn't doubt scum have already claimed vengeful townies. That's why role claiming d1 with no heat is a scummy move.