Judge Not

[Troll King]

The word "judgement" means many things, and the negative meaning people are looking at follows more along the lines of "condemnation". When you are trying to help someone, you may be making a "judgement" but I wouldn't call it condemnation.

[bloodzombie]

you have to make the judgement that he's IN NEED OF HELP first.

edit: and in the example, I'm trying to depict a situation where a person needs your help (he/she may or may not desire it, as per the drug example) but before you try and help them, you recognize what is wrong.

You said that he can't stop, but he wants to... that's different than someone that doesn't have any desire to stop.

But either way, you're not passing judgement on the person. If you didn't think he was a good person, you wouldn't be his friend in the first place. You're taking 'judgement' to extremes here.. you might judge that you're taller than your friend, but I don't think that's what the scripture refers to... it refers to judging a human being, not deciding whether or not you want to reach out to someone and ask if they need your help.

[Facetious]

to me, the judgment you should be making is that the person knows they need help, but are afraid to ask. if youre confident that your friend is okay with their choices, i wouldnt intervene, what good do you expect it to do? theyll just get pissed off at you. id say that situations involving physical addiction (crack, coke, heroin, etc) are different, though.

[Bioture]

Also nothing to do with judging... he's decided that he wants your help, and you're willing to give it to him because you give a shit about him.

you have to make the judgement that he's IN NEED OF HELP first.

edit: and in the example, I'm trying to depict a situation where a person needs your help (he/she may or may not desire it, as per the drug example) but before you try and help them, you recognize what is wrong.

[bloodzombie]

I'm also assuming that since the person is using drugs so heavily, he can't really make the decision to stop, but he wants to.

Also nothing to do with judging... he's decided that he wants your help, and you're willing to give it to him because you give a shit about him.

[bloodzombie]

maybe he's been talking all week about scoring drugs from some guy, and bio happens to know the guy is an undercover. this is a situation that could happen.

this has nothing to do with judging, this is about warning your friend that some dude's a narc and not to deal with him.

[bloodzombie]

If your friend is a crack addict, you are not judging him if you have an intervention. If anything, you're deciding that he's a good person and you care about him, and he's gotten himself into a bad place and he deserves help.

[Facetious]

maybe he's been talking all week about scoring drugs from some guy, and bio happens to know the guy is an undercover. this is a situation that could happen.

im sure that if your friend is doing this, bioture, and you let him know he should stop that behavior, your friend would not think you were judging him.

[K2Grey]

You cannot help someone without judging them, because in order to help someone, there first needs to be some kind of problem or deficiency, and you must first judge whether there is a problem or deficiency in the first place.

For example, you can help someone with drug problem, but first you must say to yourself, "drug addiction is undesirable." Otherwise, you get something like this:

A: You should get off drugs!
B: Why, is there anything wrong with them?
A: No, there's nothing wrong with them, but you should get off them anyway
B: Why don't you stop surfing the Internet?
A: There's nothing wrong with the Internet!
B: I didn't make the judgment there's anything bad about it, but you should probably stop surfing anyway. Just in case.

[Squeezer]

Ok, but all of these arguments kind of fall flat, because there is a huge difference between helping someone and judging someone. Helping someone is in a sense, promoting good by using your positive actions to help cure someone's negative's. Judging is telling someone what they are doing is wrong.

But, to block my own shot, Can you help someone without first judging them?

[K2Grey]

IMHO, "judge" can be used in many contexts and definitions. For sure everyone makes judgments. You judge whether an action is good or not, you judge the relative merits of this product vs. another product, you judge whether a person is good for this task or that task etc.

Now, I am not Christian, but when I hear a strange quotation, I usually try to interpret it in a meaningful way rather than immediately bash it (although it is true that it is not short on contradictions), and it seems like in this context the judgment only applies judging people. So it seems to say one of two things:

1. You should not make judgments about a person's overall nature, or
2. You should not judge others unless you are ready to be judged yourself.

Now, IMHO the 2nd one makes more sense. But just because you have some kind of problem, does not mean you cannot point out another has one, too. If someone else has drug problems, you're perfectly fine criticizing them over it and telling them to quit, even if for example you have self assurance problems. Now, obviously it's good to recognize that you too have problems, but just because you have them, that does not mean that you cannot point out the problems of others, especially if there is a big difference in scale.

[Verthanthi]

also, what does "about to go to jail" mean? if the dudes been arrested and charged with something he's clearly beyond your help, if he hasnt been arrested, i think its your arbitrary judgement that hes "about to go to jail"

maybe he's been talking all week about scoring drugs from some guy, and bio happens to know the guy is an undercover. this is a situation that could happen.

[GoldenPlums]

You know, if I'm ever hit by a car crossing the street, in that nanosecond before you start judging me, or referring to parts of a book or consulting theologists, please just call me a fucking ambulance. You can debate the reasons why you struggle to form your own opinions while I'm on my way to hospital.

[WiseCherub]

Yeah, Bioture I thought about this too in the past, and I asked a friend you has a Masters in Theology.

That verse refers to Judging the spiritual status of a person.

Like if I judge and say this person is going to hell.

Only the Heavenly Father has the right to judge is this regard, we have no right to judge at this level.

I think the intention of this verse is to avoid being self-righteous and holier than thou. Unfortunately, some Christians act this way towards other people.

So recognize/acknowledge, rather than judge.

Also I think you were talking about how can I help another person, if I can't judge them. Well I think judge is too extreme a word used in this context, don't judge, but offer an opinion (critique, constructive critism) to help another person.

[Facetious]

true, but sometimes if a person is that much into doing drugs, they won't know(we'll, actually they'll know, but they won't want to stop) unless they OD or die or something. If you had a friend who just recently started doing drugs, and he starts failing classes and is about to go to jail, you wouldn't help him? would you stand back and let him keep doing drugs?

i mean, ive just sort of assumed youre talking about non-addictive drugs like pot, shrooms, etc, tell me if youre wrong, you just dont seem like the kind of guy that would end up surrounded by cokeheads/crackheads. again, though, telling the guy "youre fucking up your life, you need to change it" is almost never going to accomplish anything, and pretty much will make you look like a douche. either he has a drug problem, and doesnt need you to come down so hard on him, or he doesnt care about school in the first place. some people dont care about school that much, whats so god-awful about that?

also, what does "about to go to jail" mean? if the dudes been arrested and charged with something he's clearly beyond your help, if he hasnt been arrested, i think its your arbitrary judgement that hes "about to go to jail"