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Does anyone feel like the thrill of returning to TW is kinda fading?

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  • #31
    Can we just jump to playoffs after week 6 games?
    In game alias: mvp

    twdt-b 2017 finalist
    twlb 2020 champ cheerleader
    twdt-b 2020 and 2021 champ

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    • #32
      Think we should just run TWL and TWDT both as tournys.

      Structure for both is fine, people should be allowed to stack with their buddies for their nerd rights or w/e makes them happy.

      But both leagues should be short, 6 weeks~.

      Everyone has fun with TWD and its casual and no time constraints, TWD should be the main fuel that keeps the zone alive, as it has been.
      1:Jerome> ON THE THIRD DAY GOD CREATED THE REMINGTON BOLT ACTION .33, AND SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD, AND ON THE FOURTH DAY HE USED IT TO KILL DINOSAURS AND HOMOSEXUALS

      Juice

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      • #33
        anyway, nothing can be done about TWL.

        Getting rid of the star cap for TWDT would be great whenever someone runs it. Going back to max slots + low-star slots would be nice. something like:

        wb/jav: max/9/8/8/7
        base: max/max/max/9/8/8/7/7

        The 6*s are killing the game, especially in wb/jav where they go 3-10 every game unless you luck into the one misrated player. This problem was solved years ago but it's been re-introduced.

        And playing as a 10* is not fun and onerous, especially because you get stuck with 6*s in your line who are disproportionately worse than a 7* is relative to an 8*.

        There is a difference between a balanced league and punishing people for being good.

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        • #34
          A few notes. It has been mentioned a few times that there are literally 4 euros playing this zone. Well this is not true. I counted over 30 euros in listed in twl rosters, in most of teams around 25-30% of roster are euros.
          One of the big reasons EG died off was because decisions were made that killed off the zone activity during non-us timezones. EG used to have a very healthy aussie/asian timezone playercore, majority left the zone after baseduel was killed. This resulted in euros coming to empty zone and games picking up considerably later than before, which then resulted in euro timezone dying out and east-coast US coming to zone that was empty with no games. Once u only prioritize one timezone, game will die. The Sunday evening timeslot is definitely not perfect, but it is the only reasonable compromise, cannot expect players to care enough to show in the middle of the night or early mornings.
          Secondly, how about you try cup-type of tournament instead of league. I remember hosting an EG league, where we used ELO type of system (well basically twd math), but with scheduled games giving double amount. So squads were free to play as many matches during week, but still had fixed gametimes and had to face each other once during Sunday time. In the end top 4 squads made it to best of 2 type of playoffs.
          Second option is to just have twd going on for a month, top 8 teams in all categories make it to playoffs with 1st ranked team facing 8th, 2nd 7th and so on. 3 weeks of playoffs and we are done in less than 2 months.Can have more strict rules to borrowing during that time for twd as well.
          am not saying i do not enjoy TWL, its fun league if u are on a fun squad, but it does seem really long.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Claushouse View Post
            anyway, nothing can be done about TWL.

            Getting rid of the star cap for TWDT would be great whenever someone runs it. Going back to max slots + low-star slots would be nice. something like:

            wb/jav: max/9/8/8/7
            base: max/max/max/9/8/8/7/7

            The 6*s are killing the game, especially in wb/jav where they go 3-10 every game unless you luck into the one misrated player. This problem was solved years ago but it's been re-introduced.

            And playing as a 10* is not fun and onerous, especially because you get stuck with 6*s in your line who are disproportionately worse than a 7* is relative to an 8*.

            There is a difference between a balanced league and punishing people for being good.
            Cuz the ratings got inflated stupidly. People who are decent in another league, are auto 7+ in their worst league, even if they play it once a year. Players like vehicle, pressure, rageritual and many more are forced into 7 star rating for what? Imo those are the true 6 stars, many 8 stars are the true 7 stars and so on. With them being 7/10, you say with all respect that they do 70% of the work a 10 star does, while we all know its not even close.. There is a skill gap that doesn't show in the ratings in general in every league.

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            • #36
              then we should just separate the leagues for TWDT, and eliminate the star cap.

              Basing Cup showed how fun and competitive the game is with a flat draft in 1 league where people aren't sacrificing some leagues and stacking others, it creates natural parity.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Majorcrisis2 View Post

                Cuz the ratings got inflated stupidly. People who are decent in another league, are auto 7+ in their worst league, even if they play it once a year. Players like vehicle, pressure, rageritual and many more are forced into 7 star rating for what? Imo those are the true 6 stars, many 8 stars are the true 7 stars and so on. With them being 7/10, you say with all respect that they do 70% of the work a 10 star does, while we all know its not even close.. There is a skill gap that doesn't show in the ratings in general in every league.
                I do agree with this. I've asked to be bumped down in all leagues but especially javs. Because I am bottom-level 7*, there's really no reason for a cap to consider playing me.

                When I complained about rating inflation last season, I was basically told to 'get good' as the solution.

                I also think it's dumb to have a 0-10 rating system when only 4 numbers are used.

                Beyond that, I do want to mention that the goal of TWDT should include efforts at inclusivity of players across all skills. I understand the argument that star caps don't necessarily create the strongest lines, but they do maintain a level of parity while also also ensuring newer, less-skilled players get play time.
                Vehicle> ?help Will the division's be decided as well today?
                Message has been sent to online moderators
                2:BLeeN> veh yes
                (Overstrand)>no
                2:Vehicle> (Overstrand)>no
                2:BLeeN> ok then no
                :Overstrand:2:Bleen> veh yes
                (Overstrand)>oh...then yes

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                • #38
                  Many people have brought up the issues with the star system in the past, in that how we rate people doesn't map well to how useful they actually are on a team in terms of numeric value.

                  Run a team of five 6 stars vs a team of five 10 stars. How often will the 6 stars win? 1% of the time? Probably it's closer to 0.1%, or even less. Nothing but an act of divine intervention could save them, honestly. Yet the team composition via stars shows it at 30 vs 50 strength. Those are nowhere near the odds of each side winning. It doesn't take a mathematician to see how broken that is.

                  Can keep star values as they are, but they just need a mapping to a numerical value of worth that tracks better with actual odds. This can be done manually and adjusted with time as we learn what works. For example, 10 stars = 100 team value, 9 stars = 85 team value, etc.

                  Then for lineups, you use team value (or whatever it's called). For rating players, you still use stars, because it's convenient and familiar.
                  "You're a gentleman," they used to say to him. "You shouldn't have gone murdering people with a hatchet; that's no occupation for a gentleman."
                  -Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment

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                  • #39
                    Meh...have a 6*/7* only TWDT league. Then leave the 8/9/10 to the TWDT Masters. Who sticks out from the 6/7* league? Can rate them better when they all play against each other.

                    The issue isn't the low stars and never has been. It's the POS vets who despise playing with or even against the low stars. If you ever took the time to play with or against them you'd know who to draft and who to stay away from.

                    Weather is getting warmer! Hiking and Disc Golf FTW!! TOODLES my PEEPS!! Accuracy for TWLB Champs! Hopefully I'll see you all soon. MUCH love and respect to every single person in this game.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Claushouse View Post
                      then we should just separate the leagues for TWDT, and eliminate the star cap.

                      Basing Cup showed how fun and competitive the game is with a flat draft in 1 league where people aren't sacrificing some leagues and stacking others, it creates natural parity.
                      In TWL the 9/10* players all stack together, and everyone else is screwed. While the idea of a no star cap DT might be a good idea to throw in once a year, we really shouldn't do it right after TWL. We need to do something for our lower * players to participate in too.

                      The ratings are inflated and we should probably only have a set amount of 10* players per ship every season and go from there. Basing cup was okay but it needed about 2 more teams for more to participate, which always ends up being problem: deciding on how many teams.
                      If you're going to do a thing you should to it to the best of your ability or don't do it at all.

                      Siaxis> yo it was way harder to kill Rage then beam in that dtd

                      Originally posted by olde;n1353305
                      I can't beleive you left Acc. on Tj's birthday...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RageRitual View Post

                        In TWL the 9/10* players all stack together, and everyone else is screwed. While the idea of a no star cap DT might be a good idea to throw in once a year, we really shouldn't do it right after TWL. We need to do something for our lower * players to participate in too.

                        The ratings are inflated and we should probably only have a set amount of 10* players per ship every season and go from there. Basing cup was okay but it needed about 2 more teams for more to participate, which always ends up being problem: deciding on how many teams.
                        Why is deciding how many teams an issue? You allow for signups and then see what would be the ideal amount of teams from that? Man though is it ironic that you are the guy saying we should do something for the low stars when you literally left your squad because they recruited low stars and you were sick of playing with noobs. Must have sucked getting crushed by them in LB lmao... anyway that is enough trolling so I'll stay on point.

                        Low star players and problems with star cap: in most DTS these low star players end up being people playing ships they don't normally play, because there are no noobs in tw (Nobody is installing this game randomly and jumping into a league lets be real). An example of this is I don't enjoy jav/wb but teams keep trying to make me practice/play in this format because I am a low star. This creates frustration for higher skilled players because then you are playing with players who have to play with someone who isn't even motivated to get skilled in that format. In my example vio was going to bench me in base, but play me in jav/wb until I had a freak out on him. I went through last years DT star cap real quick for base and looked at who was 7* and lower. Can anyone else tell me who actually plays base from this list?? I have seen kov/retro/lee and dad in base, but none of them are super active except for maybe retro and lee. Trying to fix this issue gets into starcap inflation, but IMO we shouldn't be making leagues with this shitty star cap system it is fucking garbage. The star cap system rewards play time to mediocrity and this shouldn't be the case. If you want to play then you should work to earn your spot on a team and get good.

                        Low * players are a fucking illusion and are only a damn issue because of keeping all 3 leagues on 1 roster. The biggest issue in TWL is most of the population quits because they feel they can't compete with a stack so why bother. NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST A LOW * SCRUB. Separate the damn leagues, remove the fucking starcap/other shitty systems and just have a normal draft. It isn't fucking complicated so why does everyone try to add all these roster rules????
                        Last edited by MousE; 04-03-2021, 12:35 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Claushouse View Post
                          anyway, nothing can be done about TWL.

                          Getting rid of the star cap for TWDT would be great whenever someone runs it. Going back to max slots + low-star slots would be nice. something like:

                          wb/jav: max/9/8/8/7
                          base: max/max/max/9/8/8/7/7

                          The 6*s are killing the game, especially in wb/jav where they go 3-10 every game unless you luck into the one misrated player. This problem was solved years ago but it's been re-introduced.

                          And playing as a 10* is not fun and onerous, especially because you get stuck with 6*s in your line who are disproportionately worse than a 7* is relative to an 8*.

                          There is a difference between a balanced league and punishing people for being good.
                          I forgot about this but definitely the way to go. Especially if no adjustments in twdt for the rating inflation.

                          Also agree basing cup + wb cup + jav cup as 3 separate drafts as the next possible option.
                          In game alias: mvp

                          twdt-b 2017 finalist
                          twlb 2020 champ cheerleader
                          twdt-b 2020 and 2021 champ

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Rasaq View Post
                            Meh...have a 6*/7* only TWDT league. Then leave the 8/9/10 to the TWDT Masters. Who sticks out from the 6/7* league? Can rate them better when they all play against each other.

                            The issue isn't the low stars and never has been. It's the POS vets who despise playing with or even against the low stars. If you ever took the time to play with or against them you'd know who to draft and who to stay away from.

                            Weather is getting warmer! Hiking and Disc Golf FTW!! TOODLES my PEEPS!! Accuracy for TWLB Champs! Hopefully I'll see you all soon. MUCH love and respect to every single person in this game.
                            The vast majority of the playerbase is a 7* though. I'd rate literally 90% of all active WBs as 7*s, like maybe 5 at 8*, a couple at 9*, and a couple at 10*. Even the 10* players are more than likely 9* than 10, and are only reserved for like the top 5 players in the game, none of whom dominate anymore with weak lines in the way you'd expect a 10* to dominate in years past.

                            Your idea only works if we redid the rating system to be much more spread out than it currently is. I don't see that going down well though with the egos this game has. Try explaining to some 8* people who have never done anything without a stacked lineup that they're actually a 6* without always being surrounded by 8-10* players. They'll probably throw a fit, even though it's true.

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                            • #44
                              Just get rid of points and instead make a more simple rule, divide people into 3 groups - top tier (so previous 9s and 10s), mid tier (7s and 8s) and low tier (everyone below 7). Make it obligatory to use 1 low and 1 mid-tier in wb and jav matches and maybe 1 low and 2 mid-tiers in base. That way maximum amount of vets get to play, but more active and deserving mid and low tiers also get a chance. Easier to organize games as well as you do not have to constantly calculate if some subs are possible or not.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by MousE View Post
                                Low * players are a fucking illusion and are only a damn issue because of keeping all 3 leagues on 1 roster. The biggest issue in TWL is most of the population quits because they feel they can't compete with a stack so why bother. NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST A LOW * SCRUB. Separate the damn leagues, remove the fucking starcap/other shitty systems and just have a normal draft. It isn't fucking complicated so why does everyone try to add all these roster rules????
                                While I agree with most of what you said, I don't agree with all of it. One issue is with people who firstly don't know how to accurately rate people in an unbaised manner (I'd say the majority of the playerbase has this issue). Even the best players in the game can struggle with this, because having skill doesn't necessarily mean you can accurately judge skill. Most people judge other player's skill based on themselves, thinking 'I can regularly beat this other guy, so he must be rated lower than me) or (I can't beat this guy, he must be higher), etc. If you want a classic example of the greatest player of all time having terrible talent judgement of others, just look at Michael Jordan running the Bobcats/Hornets. Lots of people in this game think going positive is the only thing that matters, not realizing how important staying alive is, or how to lure for teammates for easy vulches, or how to accurately read the flow of a game and change the momentum, or how to read rushing lanes and take good angles, or how to keep track of 9s and go after them instead of whoever is trying to draw their shots, how to take the lead when you are low deaths and teammates are high, how to stay safe on high deaths, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on, and I can name plenty of players who don't understand the nuances of the game besides simply shooting stuff. A person that understands all of the above and does the little things in games that the bots don't know how to record and averages the same record as the guy who simply shoots stuff and nothing else still gets the same star rating. They absolutely should not, but how many players in this game are informed enough to judge the little things that the bots don't record? I'd say a couple players could, but not many.

                                Another issue that when the lowest possible rating is 6*, there is no real separation of actual skill. Anyone who goes positive semi-regularly, regardless of how they do so (maybe they're the most selfish player in existence, but they go + every round) automatically gets an 7-8*. There's basically no gap in how people are rated, so 99.9% of the game falls within the same 7 or 8* range. In that case, there's no reason whatsoever to have a * rating to begin with. People lost sight of that because they want to be rated high and have all their friends rated high. This game lacks brutal honesty and an unbiased system of rating people.

                                Besides that, I agree that TWDT should be separated by leagues, because the vast majority of players in this game cannot accurately rate all 3 leagues even if they can judge one. It just isn't a thing. There are like maybe 10 players who are consistently good in all 3 leagues as it is, and not all 10 of those players are captains in TWDT. Usually it's just one or two guys at most, leaving one or two-leaguers as the rest. These guys then have to sacrifice one league to the benefit of the other, and it fucks over everyone who gets drafted to play in the sacrificed league. What ends up happening is a bunch of squads like Accuracy (no offense friends) essentially get drafted, where they have to play all 3 leagues, but are good in only one of them. All the WBs that get drafted into an Accuracy-type team suddenly have to play in losing matches every week, because they are surrounded by lower-skilled people who don't even want to be there.

                                If you want a balanced league with no * cap, the way to go is to separate leagues and have the drafts be like Wbduel/Javduel/Baseduel. Also, everyone knows when they have a bad captain in wbduel or something, because that person drafts a shit team that gets steamrolled. They tend to be the first ones to captain too, because it is the only way they'll get playtime, but that's just how it is. I'd bet that more people would be willing to be a captain and draft a team IF they only had to worry about a single league. Very few people are actually qualified to draft for all 3, which probably makes most people not want to try. That's a lot of homework they'd have to do for leagues they might not even care about. It should be easier to be a captain and draft in TWDT, not more difficult.

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