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  • #31
    We need more guidelines and a star cap estimates for rookie lines and elite cores. Right now it seems like everything is very ogrons opinion based. I really think we need rating based specifications in order to get some more team submissions going

    As per current wb cores:

    1. Rage -- RaCka(10*), Lockdown(10*), Turban(9.5*) = 29.5 wb star core
    2. Dark -- Siaxis(9*), zidane(8*), ogron (8.5*) = 25.5 wb star core (average of 8.5 stars per player)
    3. Phoenix -- saiyan(10*) vys (10*) , *UNKNOWN* = 20* so far with 2 players, they can have anyone as their third as they only need 5.5 stars to hit 25.5 stars form an elite core of 3.

    If you set out the guideline that a 3 man elite core for jav/wb needs to be a minimum of 25.5 stars at an average of 8.5 stars per player that automatically would put the Paladen core into a non drafting setup:

    5. Paladen -- Jessup(7.5), J-B-Inc(7.5), Pawner(7) = 22 star core.

    As they do not meet the minimum threshold of 25.5 stars to be considered an elite core they will not be considered as a 3 person elite core but they are welcome to put together a non-draft line.

    Now as I said what we REALLY NEED at this point to get the ball rolling on core submissions is clear guidelines and instructions on how we can begin to submit non-draft lines. I've gathered you would allow non draft lines to form with 7-8 players, that's a start, but what is the highest level of talent we can allow on these non-draft lines?

    You said the star cap for wb/jav is likely gonna be the strongest team + 16 *'s

    For wb currently its 29.5* (racka, lockdown, turban) + 16*s for a star cap of 45.5.

    If we made the star cap for a non-draft line in wb 42.5, that averages out to 8.5 stars per player slot of a 5 man team and is still 3 stars below the elite core draft cap of 45.5 and can account for the advantage of entering the cup with a fully formed starting line with a few sub options as you suggested a roster of 7-8 players.

    There are tons of mid rated players who would only want to be drafted by an elite core and win with them because they don't have confidence in their abilities to pull an upset vs strong players and want to be carried to a title.

    but there are also a lot of mid rated players who would want to play with players of equal skill that they have synergy with and still be able to put together a line that can pull an upset.

    I think these cups have the potential to have more than 4 competitive teams per division.. if you give the community some more guidelines, the teams will come.
    Last edited by Ekk0; 04-21-2022, 11:33 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ekk0 View Post
      We need more guidelines and a star cap estimates for rookie lines and elite cores. Right now it seems like everything is very ogrons opinion based. I really think we need rating based specifications in order to get some more team submissions going

      As per current wb cores:

      1. Rage -- RaCka(10*), Lockdown(10*), Turban(9.5*) = 29.5 wb star core
      2. Dark -- Siaxis(9*), zidane(8*), ogron (8.5*) = 25.5 wb star core (average of 8.5 stars per player)
      3. Phoenix -- saiyan(10*) vys (10*) , *UNKNOWN* = 20* so far with 2 players, they can have anyone as their third as they only need 5.5 stars to hit 25.5 stars form an elite core of 3.

      If you set out the guideline that a 3 man elite core for jav/wb needs to be a minimum of 25.5 stars at an average of 8.5 stars per player that automatically would put the Paladen core into a non drafting setup:

      5. Paladen -- Jessup(7.5), J-B-Inc(7.5), Pawner(7) = 22 star core.

      As they do not meet the minimum threshold of 25.5 stars to be considered an elite core they will not be considered as a 3 person elite core but they are welcome to put together a non-draft line.

      Now as I said what we REALLY NEED at this point to get the ball rolling on core submissions is clear guidelines and instructions on how we can begin to submit non-draft lines. I've gathered you would allow non draft lines to form with 7-8 players, that's a start, but what is the highest level of talent we can allow on these non-draft lines?

      You said the star cap for wb/jav is likely gonna be the strongest team + 16 *'s

      For wb currently its 29.5* (racka, lockdown, turban) + 16*s for a star cap of 45.5.

      If we made the star cap for a non-draft line in wb 42.5, that averages out to 8.5 stars per player slot of a 5 man team and is still 3 stars below the elite core draft cap of 45.5 and can account for the advantage of entering the cup with a fully formed starting line with a few sub options as you suggested a roster of 7-8 players.

      There are tons of mid rated players like Banks who would only want to be drafted by an elite core and win with them because they don't have confidence in their abilities to pull an upset vs strong players and want to be carried to a title.

      but there are also a lot of mid rated players who would want to play with players of equal skill that they have synergy with and still be able to put together a line that can pull an upset.

      I think these cups have the potential to have more than 4 competitive teams per division.. if you give the community some more guidelines, the teams will come.
      Simplest solution is if you can’t hit the max stars with adding 10 star players to your core than you don’t get to draft. Paladin can’t hit 45 so no draft.
      In game alias: mvp

      twdt-b 2017 finalist
      twlb 2020 champ cheerleader
      twdt-b 2020 and 2021 champ

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      • #33
        also remember that this is an opt out league. there are people out there that likely dont even know they might find themselves on a team in a summer league.

        that being said, its supposed to be a casual league. i dont have an issue with letting the paladen core draft. the only thing that should explicitly stated is that there will be no repercussion to any player that doesnt want to play. if i get drafted to a team in each league but i decide i only want to base and wb, that should be perfectly fine. i am in no way obligated to show up to the team that drafted me for javs if i dont wish to play it.

        as long as we dont penalize a player later on in the leagues that are taken seriously like twdt and twl, who cares what people do?


        1996 Minnesota State Pooping Champion

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        • #34
          Paladen never submitted anything here. I submitted a core for a yet unnamed team and it was rejected. I'll see if I can make a team but if I can't just put me in the rigged player draft package.
          TWDT-J CHAMPION POWER 2018
          TWDT-B CHAMPION POWER 2018
          TWDT TRIPLE CROWN MEMBER POWER 2018
          TSL TRIPLE CROWN FINALIST 2018
          TSLD CHAMPION 2018
          TSLB CHAMPION 2018

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ogron View Post

            Final Thoughts

            To me, it seems like too many pure drafts in a row, and since we're not running TWL for another 6 months, having a league where you can actually team up with people (albeit with a star cap and a draft element) seemed like a good middleground. But it's whatever people want it to be, I'm just trying to help the zone. I heard multiple players talking about TSL so I stepped in and announced Cup.

            If people would prefer another pure draft I'm happy to run it like Basing Cup 2021... I just thought it would be cool to try a hybrid between TWL and TWDT. If strong players don't step up and participate in the process, then obviously it will not work, and you'll be left with either a 4th consecutive pure draft league, or just nothing, and the zone can die until September when TWDT and TWL bring players back.

            I'm fine with whatever.
            I think you should see this through. You've obviously put some thought and effort into this, so I think it is in our interest to see what comes of it. Perhaps there will be some hiccups, but at the end of the day it's something new, and it might even spark some creativity/imagination in the community for future tournament ideas. You can always iron it out going forward for future iterations as well. I'm all for this, keep it goin' buddy!
            Last edited by RaCka; 04-21-2022, 04:17 PM.
            Subspace - Best kept secret in the video gaming world. Let's keep it that way.

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            • #36
              sry about format
              Subspace - Best kept secret in the video gaming world. Let's keep it that way.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Crazy Canockout View Post
                I think you should see this through. You've obviously put some thought and effort into this, so I think it is in our interest to see what comes of it. Perhaps there will be some hiccups, but at the end of the day it's something new, and it might even spark some creativity/imagination in the community for future tournament ideas. You can always iron it out going forward for future iterations as well. I'm all for this, keep it goin' buddy!
                Hey CC,

                Thanks for the kind words.

                I mean it's not a radical idea, this format has been proposed for TWL many times by multiple players (including myself), especially as the height of the superstack era in the mid 2010s. TWL self-corrected with stricter roster limits and players consciously making an effort to form more contenders and de-stack, but the idea is still good.

                I think it just makes sense in terms of giving the community the opportunity to play with friends, as we are a draft-heavy game now. I'm guessing we'll need TWDT to bring back the player base in the fall, and we've run 3 drafts in a row, without this format we'll be at 4 in a row, which a lot:

                TWDT 2019
                TWL 2019
                TWDT 2019
                TWDT 2019
                TWDT 2020
                Basing Cup 2020

                TWL 2020
                TWDT 2020
                TWDT 2021

                TWL 2021
                TWDT 2021
                Basing Cup 2021
                TWDT 2022

                ------
                WB/Jav/Basing Cup 2022
                TWDT 2022 (September)
                TWL 2022 (November)
                TWDT 2023 (February)

                We'll play it by ear. Racka, myself, and others are talking to people and I know there are cores developing in the background that haven't been announced yet, so I think we'll get there, but certainly Jav Cup seems the furthest behind.

                If we get enough cores for, say, WB Cup and Basing Cup, we can run both of those using the current format. And if Jav Cup flops, we can just run that as a traditional draft. It's not necessarily all or nothing.

                Dreamwin and Pressure are two elite captains I'm hopeful will submit Basing Cores!
                Defending TWLB, TWDT-B, and Basing Cup champion

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                • #38
                  Has there been any word on potentially playing weeknight games? I think you might see some other folks like Rasaq be able to showup should we have a few peppered in during a week. It's a summer league so obviously kids are home for those that have them and typically families enjoy more activities outdoors like camping/boating on the weekends. Having another league that is ran for hours and hours during the middle of the day on Sunday (for US playerbase obviously) is a hard pass for some of us.

                  There's been talk about trying leagues on different time slots for years and I think this would be a great time to test the waters. It was hinted at in another thread concerning TWD Cup's but haven't heard anything on it which brings me here. I know other zones like Hockey league had Friday night leagues and were very successful despite many being Euro's. Don't get me wrong either--I'm all for equality in that we could host a coupe late night games then a couple early morning/midday games so no matter where you are in the world, you have an opportunity to play this game during ideal times which tends to be night time for numerous reasons (no glare, kids/wives are in bed, little distractions, no work calls, ect.)

                  Edit: Am not saying get rid of Sundays schedule but maybe add to it some week nights? Will say reducing points seems harsh for weekday games but if its the only way to work it so be it. Anything is better than nothing.

                  Everything else looks great and I hope I have an opportunity to play but it largely boils down to scheduling. Thanks for the considerations and hope everyone has a great weekend.
                  Last edited by Grasps; 04-21-2022, 06:06 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Suggestion

                    This cud b a league where one cud mix an aspect of:
                    1. A couple of bi-weekly weeknight games (choose 1 or 2 nights that r most packed according 2 twd numbirs)
                    2. A couple of early games (noon/1pm EST start) on Saturdays or Sundays (play 1 wb/jav/basing league game before 11pm b4 a Monday: hopefully begins 2 meet wants/needs of a few of our belovid international friends)

                    I wud considir alternating between (so every othir week):
                    • 1 week of weeknight mitch
                    • 1 week 12:30pm EST Sunday mitch (with the next set of games starting at 2pm)
                    Last edited by Riverside; 04-21-2022, 07:44 PM.

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                    • #40
                      I personally love the idea of weeknight games, and I am in favour. Keeping sundays of course as well, but as was said 'sprinkling' some in there during certain weeknights would definitely be worth a try I would think. Also other days of the week would be fine too, and/or other time slots as is mentioned above.
                      Subspace - Best kept secret in the video gaming world. Let's keep it that way.

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                      • #41
                        You'd kinda need to decide that before submitting cores - because USA/CAN weeknight games exclude UK/EU players - so having them in your core would be a disadvantage.

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                        • #42
                          just wondering, what do you think an example of one of the draft package of players would look like?


                          1996 Minnesota State Pooping Champion

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Grasps View Post
                            Has there been any word on potentially playing weeknight games? I think you might see some other folks like Rasaq be able to showup should we have a few peppered in during a week. It's a summer league so obviously kids are home for those that have them and typically families enjoy more activities outdoors like camping/boating on the weekends. Having another league that is ran for hours and hours during the middle of the day on Sunday (for US playerbase obviously) is a hard pass for some of us.

                            There's been talk about trying leagues on different time slots for years and I think this would be a great time to test the waters. It was hinted at in another thread concerning TWD Cup's but haven't heard anything on it which brings me here. I know other zones like Hockey league had Friday night leagues and were very successful despite many being Euro's. Don't get me wrong either--I'm all for equality in that we could host a coupe late night games then a couple early morning/midday games so no matter where you are in the world, you have an opportunity to play this game during ideal times which tends to be night time for numerous reasons (no glare, kids/wives are in bed, little distractions, no work calls, ect.)

                            Edit: Am not saying get rid of Sundays schedule but maybe add to it some week nights? Will say reducing points seems harsh for weekday games but if its the only way to work it so be it. Anything is better than nothing.

                            Everything else looks great and I hope I have an opportunity to play but it largely boils down to scheduling. Thanks for the considerations and hope everyone has a great weekend.
                            Dude just give it up already. There has never been any serious consideration for this. You bring it up at the start of literally every single league, you’re a broken record.
                            In game alias: mvp

                            twdt-b 2017 finalist
                            twlb 2020 champ cheerleader
                            twdt-b 2020 and 2021 champ

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by afghan View Post

                              Dude just give it up already. There has never been any serious consideration for this. You bring it up at the start of literally every single league, you’re a broken record.
                              Hey man, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else for bringing weekday games up. I was simply inquiring since Ogron mentioned it when he was announcing cups as a 'maybe'. https://forums.trenchwars.com/forum/...he-next-league

                              Not trying to piss you or anyone else off asking about weekday games and honestly, had it not been mentioned, I wouldn't of bothered this time around but it was.. and we are getting close to this stuff getting underway so am generally curious. I do believe it would allow more of us to participate but what do I know? I'm just a nobody.
                              Last edited by Grasps; 04-22-2022, 11:18 PM.

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                              • #45
                                I bet there will be weekday games at least early on, but those games will be worth less points than on Sunday which makes sense.

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