Vys

[Zeebu]

how old was priitk when he rewrote subspace into continuum?

[Kolar]

in my opinion a person that is still in highschool still does not need to be running this zone when they are more prone to be influenced (and coached) by older people's opinions rather than their own and more of a risk than an asset in most cases, you cannot argue with that reasoning because its true, special circumstances are not the norm, therefore why base everything as if its all a special circumstance

Well that's not something we can change. This is a computer game and most people playing will be younger and most if not all upper staffers are in their 20s. The hiring process screens out most of them. I'm probably the youngest Smod being that Reaver's birthday is 6 days before mine. Young children may be more open to influence but young adults probably much less as most kids in high school who aren't hitting the crack pipe have likely formed their own opinions on religious/political/social matters. But that's a whole other topic to discuss and I don't think either of us are qualified nor have the resources to go into it. We can all be influenced by others, they can change our mind on things, that's the point of having forums like these. The onus is on you to get out of the situation if you want to, not on us to give you every break possible so you're given every chance to disrupt the game for others.


There are set rules for cheating. First offense is 365 day network ban, second time is a permanent or another year network ban. There's flexibility in the system (very little actually) for those who want to come back and can be reasonable and mature. Most people who go this route still have to serve their ban length regardless or some chunk of time. It's not special, it's not out of the norm and it's not discrimination. Vys could have worked it out with Rudy and Pure_Luck, they're the final authority in this zone so if they say no then find another game.

So I can go on and on debunking your bullshit trying to game the system to getting your cheating friend out of a ban or we could just end it right here?

[Exalt]

I'm not saying because of your behavior you're banned for life, I'm saying that because you didn't plan on stopping and quit with the bullshit your ban will remain in full. Change your ways or sit in the corner, a ban is as much a deterrent for others as it is a punishment. Making the system less fair and tolerable would be to set hard limits for everyone, not allowing for any exceptions at all. With no chance to return I think many would evade but you're given an initial chance and more, if you fail to follow though it's your own fault and not ours.

We don't keep records on staff member age. It is a factor in the hiring process but character and other factors have more importance in the process. And I wouldn't equate wisdom or maturity with that of age entirely. There are other sociological, cultural and environmental issues that go along with studying youth culture.

why are you debating that people are more mature at an older age than at a younger one? yes a 15 year old can be in many cases more mature than an 18 year old but everyone put in the same environment, the older person is more mature and wiser. Yes an 18 year old who has been through a war in the military will be more mature than a 22 year old who is still living at home but how many times do you honestly see that in today's world?

in my opinion a person that is still in highschool still does not need to be running this zone when they are more prone to be influenced (and coached) by older people's opinions rather than their own and more of a risk than an asset in most cases, you cannot argue with that reasoning because its true, special circumstances are not the norm, therefore why base everything as if its all a special circumstance

edit: and you are saying that because of behavior your banned for life... read what you typed after that and tell me thats not what your saying, you just contradicted yourself

and once again why make special circumstances the norm when it is not usually the case? Make a set rule and length of ban time for the offense, because a person that cheats knows what they've done, theres no special circumstances involved with it

ims orry but if I go into TW right now and use CE, and get banned for it and say "oops i didnt know" your not going to believe me

if jacklyn for instance goes into tw and uses CE and says "oops i didnt know KEKEKE ^_^" i bet you let her off the hook am I right?

and dont tell me about "prior record" because I have none and have played years longer than a large majority of staff, but in the end you would say "i like jacklyn better, lets not lifeban her"

[Kolar]

so what i want is you to be fair to all parties involved, make a specific rule for cheaters that is a hardcopy punishment that involves EVERYONE that cheats, dont make it case by case, and dont unban one person because of being "friendly" while keeping other lifebanned for being immature


and I think a big problem with your response about not caring about maturity is that majority of staff are not infact mature themselves, i think 50% at least of staff are under the age of 21 am I right? your all kids straight from high school in most cases so you really are on the same level of maturity as vys, to me thats definately not the person I want running a zone that has been around longer than they have been out of elementary school

I'm not saying because of your behavior you're banned for life, I'm saying that because you didn't plan on stopping and quitting with the bullshit your ban will remain in full. Change your ways or sit in the corner, a ban is as much a deterrent for others as it is a punishment for you. Making the system less fair and tolerable would be to set hard limits for everyone, not allowing for any exceptions at all. With no chance to return I think many would evade but you're given an initial chance and more, if you fail to follow though it's your own fault and not ours.


We don't keep records on staff member age. It is a factor in the hiring process but character and other factors have more importance. And I wouldn't equate wisdom or maturity with that of age entirely. There are other sociological, cultural and environmental issues that go along with studying youth culture.

[Exalt]

And I already said it doesn't matter. We're not going to start giving people special treatment because they're not mature enough to have some little restraint.

Figure out what you want from staff first before replying again. I still can't figure out if you want staff to be less strict on cheaters, more strict, give special treatment, not give it...?

im saying you unbanned method who was far worse as far as what he did to the server and the game and you keep vys "lifebanned" when all he did was be a wanna be cheater using CE, which was not a program made for subspace, its just a memory editor that happens to work with it, not that other memory editors arnt able to do the same thing

method actually CREATED a cheat specifically for subspace, and then he also fed out a trojan to steal other player's names, and even if these players deserved to be screwed and lose their names for wanting to cheat, it still does not excuse what he did

method saying he will help out after all hes done is the same as vys saying he will help out and be good after all hes done, which to me is a lesser version of the crimes both committed

so what i want is you to be fair to all parties involved, make a specific rule for cheaters that is a hardcopy punishment that involves EVERYONE that cheats, dont make it case by case, and dont unban one person because of being "friendly" while keeping other lifebanned for being immature


and I think a big problem with your response about not caring about maturity is that majority of staff are not infact mature themselves, i think 50% at least of staff are under the age of 21 am I right? your all kids straight from high school in most cases so you really are on the same level of maturity as vys, to me thats definately not the person I want running a zone that has been around longer than they have been out of elementary school

[Kolar]

and you still havent answered any of my questions, you just step around them, what about vys' age and the maturity level that goes along with it, you havent even touched that one. Don't tell me your the same person you are now that you were a couple years ago, good or bad. He's only 16 so lifebanning is pretty harsh for someone that has yet to reach any type of adulthood

And I already said it doesn't matter. We're not going to start giving people special treatment because they're not mature enough to have some little restraint. Again you'll call it discrimination, we call it bullshit and this thread hits page 3 for no good reason.


Figure out what you want from staff first before replying again. I still can't figure out if you want staff to be less strict on cheaters, more strict, give special treatment, not give it...? Get a stance on the issue that does not center around getting a single player unbanned by any means possible.

[Exalt]

Unless Method went to some extreme lengths to mask his connection information then no, using one of those names would be no different then using 'Method'. Rudy is pretty good at what he does. It boils down to this- he came clean and quit the bullshit, speculating into what he did with his time is wasteful at best.

So now you're pulling out the discrimination card. Exalt... really just give it a rest. Read over Reaver's and Rudy's last post.

i did read them, and im still going to say that there is a large bias in the way staff handle things, and dont deny it... everyones human so its not that hard to believe or that crazy to think that people are bias toward people they like or dont like, this isnt the supreme court

im just saying to at least step back and TRY to be more fair toward people, not just saying vys but his is a case that gives some good evidence about the bias

and you still havent answered any of my questions, you just step around them, what about vys' age and the maturity level that goes along with it, you havent even touched that one. Don't tell me your the same person you are now that you were a couple years ago, good or bad. He's only 16 so lifebanning is pretty harsh for someone that has yet to reach any type of adulthood

[Kolar]

now how do you know he didnt use one of those names while evading and you never knew about it? ever thought of that? so reality is that method could get around being detected a lot better than vys, and probably was smarter about it by not TELLING you he was evading like vys usually does

Unless Method went to some extreme lengths to mask his connection information then no, using one of those names would be no different then using 'Method'. Rudy is pretty good at what he does. It boils down to this- he came clean and quit the bullshit, speculating into what he did with his time is wasteful at best.

So now you're pulling out the discrimination card. Exalt... really just give it a rest. Read over Reaver's and Rudy's last post.

[Exalt]

How does that work Exalt? If Vys is acting like an immature asshole and jokes about our inability to keep him out of the zone on a ban then why the hell not judge him on his character? And what I get from that is a person who has little to no respect for this zone and its community.

All other people like Method who you love to bring up often, made a pretty good deal: sit out your ban length, don't evade and don't cause too many problems for us and you might have the opportunity to return. Why is that so hard to understand? It's not favoritism or abuse on our part. All of these people worked to get back into this zone. Our rules are not black and white, there's room for those who are reasonable and mature.

except when some of the staffers are not reasonable or mature on their own level, i realize vys says some stupid things but look at the overall age level between method and vys... method can do a lot worse to the server and the game than vys and the only reason he was able to sit his time out was because he is older (and maybe wiser) but in the end he did also do a lot more damage at the time than vys did

heres a condition you havent thought of, what about all those names that method stole from players using his fake gashi trojan, since there was infact two gashis, a real one he gave to friends and a fake one he gave to people that just wanted to cheat

now how do you know he didnt use one of those names while evading and you never knew about it? ever thought of that? so reality is that method could get around being detected a lot better than vys, and probably was smarter about it by not TELLING you he was evading like vys usually does

so what im saying is vys is what, 16? is a lifeban really necessary? how mature were you at age 16? and tell me you didn't grow more mature as you grew older am I right? people grow out of the immaturity stage eventually, your not giving vys that chance

[Kolar]

judge the situation by evidence, not by a persons character

How does that work Exalt? If Vys is acting like an immature asshole and jokes about our inability to keep him out of the zone on a ban then why the hell not judge him on his character? And what I get from that is a person who has little to no respect for this zone and its community.

All other people like Method who you love to bring up often, made a pretty good deal: sit out your ban length, don't evade and don't cause too many problems for us and you might have the opportunity to return. Why is that so hard to understand? It's not favoritism or abuse on our part. All of these people worked to get back into this zone. Our rules are not black and white, there's room for those who are reasonable and mature.

[Exalt]

Let me assure you I do not benefit from holding grudges against anyone. Everyone's bans are just 0's and 1's that I keep track of. I don't care if you're the princess of Monaco, a ban is a ban.

Vys, your permanent ban is solely based on a strike two provision. Nobody in this game likes a cheater (besides Paradise and Exalt apparently). So with me, you only get once chance to redeem yourself, and that follows being initially (net)banned for a total of anywhere between 100 and 365 days. DoCk> once banned you for using gashi back in '05. Since returning from that, I have had every man and his dog making claims they have seen you cheating, despite your constant reassurances otherwise.
Finally you slip up and get caught red handed a second time doing the thor thing. Ba-bow! Instant permanent local ban. Simple as that.

Ask me how many others are permanently banned along with you if you think you've been unfairly targeted. You have to take into consideration anyone who has hacked the game more than once, either in this zone or another, within days, weeks, months, or even after their first year. Method was one of those people, as was Zerzera (who despite being initially perm-banned, is unbanned due to his honesty in serving out a year long term). Pure_Luck came to an agreement with Method. I was quite happy to keep him perm-banned, but personal assurances were made by Pure_Luck himself that Method would behave henceforth (and he has). Perhaps you might one day fall into that same category, but your constant evasions and threats to evade have disqualified you from being unbanned any earlier than is deemed neccesary for you to grow the fuck up.

I don't want to be wasting my time rebanning the same people who cannot control their urges to fuck with a game that is played by hundreds of other people who expect a level playing field. I owe it to them to do what I can to keep this ancient game as clean as possible, if only to dedicate my efforts to those same people that keep this game alive and kicking for as long as it has.
I'm good at this, everyone in zone staff knows it. You would be hard pressed finding someone better at it than I am. I don't expect you to give me credit. A pat on the back is something I don't expect from anyone given the daily abuse that comes with this role. Just take it on good faith that my moral compass always points North and you'll never need complain.

dont bring my name into this, i just support fairness, in which you obviously dont along with most upper staff, who are biased as hell toward people they like and dont like, and bend the rules as far as possible for some people and then tighten them up as much as interpretation allows for others

i know what its like to be screwed about a retarded rule because of a nitpicky call from a staffer just because they may dislike me, and then be screwed over more by how its implimented because its "within the rules as by interpretation"

I just think fair is fair, whatever your ruling is do it for all or for none

the fact is most long standing players, (and this isnt about vys either), get screwed over by the system for w/e circumstances may come up, and the only reason is because certain staffers take the rules too far in their own interpretation and want to set an example for the "newer" players in the zone

the rule that was against me was agreed on by some staff and disagreed with by others, so it was open for interpretation but overall it was who checked me out in the first place to find a nitpicky bullshit call who overall decided the ruling, which to me is retarded since they were already biased

in any case its not a big deal now but the fact is that I would like to see more stability in the way you interpret the rules and ban lengths instead of taking it person by person and basing it on how well you judge a persons character, because frankly you can't do that over the internet, you know nothing about ther person in real life

being so judgemental about a persons attitude shows you have major character flaws in yourself honestly, and its a person problem with you that you take out on the rest of the community...

judge the situation by evidence, not by a persons character

Edit: also you may try to point back at me my own character flaws, which i admit i have a lot of, but im also not a staff member, let alone a high level staff member with huge amounts of power over regular players in the game

[Ephemeral]

The best part about this thread? Everyone on here who has sided with vys has at least one point in time used ?cheater in a TWD match claiming that someone from the other team is either lag inducing or using CE. Make up your mind you either don't want cheaters or you do.

There is no best part of this thread.

[Reaver]

The best part about this thread? Everyone on here who has sided with vys has at least one point in time used ?cheater in a TWD match claiming that someone from the other team is either lag inducing or using CE. Make up your mind you either don't want cheaters or you do.

[Nickname]

Well said, and I'm sure more people appreciate you than tell you they do.

the message i have entered is to short

[Zeebu]

shrug

if anyone can find a way to nail the people who are just barely cheating, that would be awesome.