MMR in a Nutshell

[Kassius]

Wait, there's a tier system now? What is the cutoff and how does it work? Do you get promoted/demoted based on rating or what's the deal?

It's the way it's been done for weeks now, the top elo pilots get matched first, then the rest. A lower elo pilot might make it to the top game if it needs to balance the teams.

[Exalt]

Wait, there's a tier system now? What is the cutoff and how does it work? Do you get promoted/demoted based on rating or what's the deal?

[Sprackle]

My thoughts above ⬆️

https://forums.trenchwars.com/main/1...im-from-jessup

My thoughts above ⬆️




Riverside

[Jessup]

Why is HeelzNo! hurling personal insults when I own him in wb?

My thoughts above ⬆️

[Zeebu]

just put a twl base in ?go mmr and after a few games, just host a base game right there. if the can the bots be finagled, start grabbing MMR data for the players. Let the caps do the 'balancing' for now; good caps should pick decent teams. If nothing else, we can start to compile MMR stats for basing. I'd be interested to see the stats for the 3 primary basing ships laid out with a players overall basing MMR and how they compare. It seems like it'd be a handy precursor to figuring out how to handle basing MMR auto-matching.

speaking of basing MMR in general, what is the current status there?

[Kassius]

Tonight Greed stopped MMR after a few javs and a few wbs for basing, result was 1x bd and 1x dd at the same time, 8v8 and 5v5. Seems like a way forward.

[Riverside]

If I'm logging on, I'm logging on to mmr & chill. A lot, according to da #s.

I've read similar sentiments from a few other players. Competitive team games are fun.

Thank you to those who created these bots voluntarily: qan seems to have taken the lead, alongside BIET.

From a staff pov: my feedback is to look at da #s: how many twd games were there monthly before & after mmr?

If mmr has indeed contributed to improving zone activity (which typically fades during & after TWL/TWDT playoffs);

I recommend adding mmr as one of the centers of the community regarding decisions.

This could include:

• Introducing an MMR League
• An <MMR> tag similar to the <ER> tag
• (more mmr hosts.....)
• Scheduled times that move 15 mins back monthly (to help gradually re-engage international time range players)

[Riverside]

My feedback regarding making time for basing:

For a period of 1-2 hours:

1. Stop mmr games for a few minutes, until the basing game starts.
2. Start an mmr game while 16 players play a game in ?go twbd3
3. Repeat 1 & 2 when basing game finishes, within the basing pow wow hours

I also like the idea of gradually introducing earlier mmr start times to re-engage inactive & active international time-range players.

[Kassius]

MMR needs base asap! should be top priority for dev/leagues

Agreed. But I think a simple solution for now is to schedule MMR. 1 or 2 hour windows for each type, e.g. 2000-2200 UTC Jav, 2200-0000 UTC WB, 0000-0200 UTC no MMR to leave room for base and twd etc.

Often I log in and it's only Jav from 2200-0100 UTC, I've learned there's no point sticking around for wb/base as it'll only be Jav so I just log out for the night.

[zidane]

MMR needs base asap! should be top priority for dev/leagues

[HellzNo!]

Why MMR is broken...

1) Guys like ogron decided to complain about bad lines ruining "quality" of games and then pushed for a segregated arena setting for those under 1300 rating and for some asinine reason staff decided to implement this.

2) This has completely destroyed the true value for ELO ratings for the entire zone because you have people in mmr "jr" arena being dragged down by the really noob players while you have mediocre players being boosted up in the mmr "pro" arena by the really pro players.

This is an argument made from the perspective of a shit player playing in the “jr” arena. If you play well, team and win, your rating will increase and you will be promoted to the main arena. The quality of games in the main game are substantially better and shouldn’t be tarnished by allowing equal opportunity like some participate league. When I play well in jav, I win and maintain my high rating which guarantees my spot in the main game. Whereas when I play like shit in wb I get relegated to the jr arena, and rightfully so until I earn my way back up. I don’t think this system is as flawed as you believe it is, but I understand your bias.

3) The population is not large enough to do this with and besides MMR was meant to formulate rating based off of the ENTIRE zone as a collective. Segregation has NO BUSINESS in collecting this data.

4) As a result MMR data has been completely corrupted and is now a worthless dynamic to make leagues and teams from.

Again I disagree. MMR games in the main arena have been close and competitive for the most part. There are some outliers with skewed ratings that throw off the occasional game, but from what I’ve witnessed most of the player ratings are accurate, especially towards the top of the ladders.

5) Either reset MMR NOW to an all inclusive setting or just go back to TSL bot with human made star ratings implemented. We could allow for a system where star rating can change if a player proves by stats and wins they are being more impactful than their star rating shows.

6) MMR is also ruining TWD

This is true, but who cares? The majority of TWD games are atrocious, with some stacked squad like rapid torturing a pawner or yogi team filled with borrows. I would take MMR any day of the week over these horseshit TWD games

7) It can't go on like this. People are getting sick of it. Proceed with your caution staff if you don't want the game to die.

If they’re sick of it, they have a strange way of showing it. The arena is active from late afternoon throughout the evening, with games sometimes running well past midnight. Whenever I’ve logged on in the past at these times, you would be pretty hard pressed to get any games going. Most of the players have hundreds of games played by now. Compare these to TWD numbers previously, or even TSL, I’m sure it’s not close.

8) That is all except Wii even though you called me out like a jerk I wish you well. Sorry I slapped you tonight many times in dd.

My thoughts above ⬆️

[LeeRomeno]

My 2 cents as well:
Ever since mmr was introduced, there has been 0 basing games in euro timezone (with exception of those league games on Sundays). As stayon stated, basing is now dead. (Well it was pretty dead before as well, but i recall at least 4-5 games before that in timeslot between midnight 1am here, now 0). Not sure how mmr would work with base as it is much more complex (3 ships for starters, how bot makes up the team etc).
The original format was bad, because some awful low rating players ruined quite a few matches. Current format has issues jessup describes. Most often the jr arena games are decided whatever team gets the leftover high rating player (there usually are some) who carries and wins them, or then what team gets the absolute worst player. Maybe, as long as its not automated, we can have it in a way that games are hosted so that 1 game bot puts together team without tiers, second with tiers etc?
As for rest, its by far better then the twd system as in its last moments, at least in my timezone it only featured sulla and yogi challenging each other and making up games, which were in no way of better quality than what we have now in mmr.

[Stayon]

- Just being a little more clear and assertive, the balancing is way off.
- While not as valued and also not perfect, with the small sample size we have from TSL, it might appear that, that bot functioned better.
- Somewhat creating a rift, in which to have basing or MMR, being unfair for both parties, for one to happen, the other hás to stop. Before, depending on zone day activity, we could have both basing and/or a wb or javelin twd match. Thus catering, for both religions. If this is going forward, please speed up MMR basing.
- Not minimizing the work of host volunteers and Qan or Biet (Top G Staffers) who deserve credit.
- On fairly positive notes, it has a nice automatic format and a good pace between rounds, despite relying on human hand.
- Weirdly good vibes, It's congregating people on the arena due to it's format.
- The entire concept behind it, is something to be enhanced and valued, as it's a indeed a small leap to the future, regardless of the game's size these days.

[Stayon]

Someone end this virus.

- It's killing the rest of the biggest and most stable community the game ever had, basing.
- It's killing the biggest and most stable league the game ever had, TWD. Making recent years borrow solution, obsolete.
- It's taking a piss on the effort of years of coding on superior bots, given how bad this bot works.
- Has the least ammount of fun per capita in 20 years.
- There was an orgy in RoboPark, and he wasn't invited.

[Riverside]

My mmr rating is higher than *insert player* / your mmr rating, pass it on.