TSLB Standings -- Wednesday

[Ricko]

What are the value increases attached to TeKs and winning games? I'm 1 spot below skyforger in value when we both played 2 matches in spider and I killed 44 more and died 16 less (60 kill swing) however I had 2 less Teks and won only 1 match when he won both.

This isn't a whine, just curious to know how it works as there must be quite a high emphasis on either TeKs or wins as off of a stats based league you'd expect a 60 kill swing to put me significantly higher.

[Major Crisis]

As the season progresses everyone will find themselves on both sides of uneven games. Its probably impossible to get teams right every game, especially in base

Meh. I kinda disagree on that. Because the teams will be made on value now, no? Ofcourse there are some people higher valued than they should be and vice versa. For example zidane, apparently he is after Beasty the worst shark in game.

[Major Crisis]

I think this is a great concept for a league. Sure there are some flaws that need to be ironed out, but that is always what happens when you implement a concept. The main problems are perhaps subs and ship switches. We can have people stand by for subs. On sundays some people will already be staying on if they are guaranteed a place in the second basing game, which they are. Stand-by subs could also be awarded some $, possibly. When it comes to ship switches, I don't have access to the formulae that determine $ but the solution could be really simple. Instead of 'Shark formula (game score)' people could just be rated 'Shark formula (sharking score) + Spider formula (spidering score)'. Or an average of the two depending on how it's calculated. You would need the ship-specific game data to do this, which is available at least in twd games.

Btw, MC in the first game we played you, where you said the teams weren't totally balanced, you still got 20$ which is pretty damn good.

I got that high mainly because of the TeK.
And I am mainly complaining because all the subs that have been made on the teams I played against were a big improvement.
Beam didnt show for base and Smoking Blue played. Big sean lagged and Cloth got in a jav game.

[kess]

Meh. I kinda disagree on that. Because the teams will be made on value now, no?

If i understand correctly, the $ as the season progresses wont affect anything, teams will be based on hidden ratings done previous to week 1. What claus did say is that he could tweak these ratings if it wasnt working. Zidane will still be seen as one of the the top sharks and will be placed taking that in account.

Claus correct me if im wrong

[kess]

What are the value increases attached to TeKs and winning games? I'm 1 spot below skyforger in value when we both played 2 matches in spider and I killed 44 more and died 16 less (60 kill swing) however I had 2 less Teks and won only 1 match when he won both.

This isn't a whine, just curious to know how it works as there must be quite a high emphasis on either TeKs or wins as off of a stats based league you'd expect a 60 kill swing to put me significantly higher.

Teks probably have some weight, but if u look at standings in each league you will see how much wins impact value. a win probably increases 40/50% of the final value for a game

[ogron]

What are the value increases attached to TeKs and winning games? I'm 1 spot below skyforger in value when we both played 2 matches in spider and I killed 44 more and died 16 less (60 kill swing) however I had 2 less Teks and won only 1 match when he won both.

This isn't a whine, just curious to know how it works as there must be quite a high emphasis on either TeKs or wins as off of a stats based league you'd expect a 60 kill swing to put me significantly higher.

TeKs are worth 2$ a pop for spiders and terrs, and 5$ a pop for sharks.

Winning (or losing by a slim margin) is worth more. It's always worth going to the win.

A shark tek is, to me, the most valuable and intentional. Terr teks tend to be intentional as well, but it's much easier with bursts.

Spider Teks are... eh... i dunno. I have them at 2$ atm, but i've never been crazy about valuing them because you can simply get the last hit after someone else does the work. Turban and M_M God are Rodman-like in their domination of the category in spider and you can tell it's more than luck by the way they push and play, but for the majority of the zone it's more of a random variable.

I keep it in as underspiders who excel can rack up Teks, and in TWLB I measured you lose about 7 kills per 30 minutes undering i think? so the increased probability in Teks helps close the gap between over and under.

Ultimately the most important variable is getting as much time as possible if you want to do well in spider. Kills are important, but your value will be higher getting 95 KPG and 15 minutes than getting 120 KPG and losing 15-7.

KDA is NOT factored in spider, so going 120-110 and 120-1 is the same. Campers are not being rewarded, so for those of you I saw in the ear streaming, I have bad news...

Sharks and terrs have insurance against terrible spiders, where if your team is significantly outkilled it will boost your value for that game (hence why MC's terr score in game 1 is pretty good, he had a decent record and his team got outkilled by 100, giving him a nice boost.)

[ogron]

The new matchmaking fixes for base I sent unfortunately won't be implemented until Sunday as Qan is busy, so we'll have to make due for the weekday games.

[project dragon]

TeKs are worth 5$ a pop for sharks.

[Zeebu]

i feel like sharking is clearly the way to go. looking at the values, the top is dominated by sharks

[ogron]

Stats updated for Wednesday.

-Buffed Spider KPG value to bring them more in line with other ships
-Fixed a Shark formula error
-Terr formula now penalizes hiding all game with good KDA to rec

Spidering should now bring in roughly the same rewards as other ships. Will continue to tweak it until balanced.

Terrs who average less than 30 kills per 30 minutes will now see value penalties to their GameScore. This is an extremely low bar, and only 3 terrs have managed to go under it (Henry Saari, bellflowers (2x), and porkjet). For every kill below 30 (remember, your kills are prorated as if it were a full 30 minute game) 2$ will be taken off your score.

Henry Saari (17-2, prorated to 27 kills)
Porkjet (17-7, prorated to 22 kills)
Bellflowers (15-3, prorated to 21 kills)
Bellflowers (26-10, prorated to 28 kills)

Every other ship is tasked with carrying their own weight, and Terr should be no different. Major Crisis, Turban, Trasher, Ogron, Cape, Rab, dreamwin, and Kess have all averaged between 36-80 KPG, so 30 KPG is not an ambitious target.

[Major Crisis]

Look at that $53 shark game. Beat that guys.

[Spezza]

I dunno if its possible but in dsb it had the bot detect what area of the game we were playing (east/north/south/west). If its possible to do that in this it should be done for over/under because under is basically impossible to get a high ranking right now. I don't think any under spider would get to top18 if they just played under. I understand if its impossible but it does make things hrr unfair in terms of dollars vs actual performance.

[Spezza]

The ter punishment is very extreme as well. It's a stylistic way to play saving burst and energy.. im sure the ters that didnt get 30 prorated kills were very important to their teams. I understand it's not hard to get 30 kills but its basically punishing ppl for not playing the way you think it should be played, mikkiz has been a top ter for awhile and he doesnt get alot of kills. Theres no good formula for ter when it's impossible to see impact from statistics but choosing to pick kills as the statistic that is worth a TON is very strange when alot of the kills are just a shark recycling on ter bullets..

[ogron]

it doesn't matter what style you play, hitting 30 kills in 30 minutes (thats like going 20-5 in a 15-5 game) is objectively almost impossible not to hit unless you're literally hiding the entire game not bulleting, which is negatively impacting your team. it has nothing to do with style.

mikkiz playing safe and saving bursts easily hits 30+ kills every game, as do most terrs. Remember its not 30 kills, its 30 prorated kills adjusted for 30 minutes, meaning if you get 15 kills in a 15 minute game it counts as 30 kills.

Trasher and I are averaging almost 60 KPG, hitting 30 isn't asking for much and given it's a statistically driven league expecting certain benchmarks to be hit is perfectly reasonable.

[Crescent Seal]

The ter punishment is very extreme as well. It's a stylistic way to play saving burst and energy.. im sure the ters that didnt get 30 prorated kills were very important to their teams. I understand it's not hard to get 30 kills but its basically punishing ppl for not playing the way you think it should be played, mikkiz has been a top ter for awhile and he doesnt get alot of kills. Theres no good formula for ter when it's impossible to see impact from statistics but choosing to pick kills as the statistic that is worth a TON is very strange when alot of the kills are just a shark recycling on ter bullets..

It may also discourage newer players from trying the ship if they are penalized for not meeting the quota.