Real "Terrier" Statistics

[Crescent Seal]

I think its because you got penalized for not hitting 30 kills. Its a pretty bogus rule imo because it discourages newbs from even trying terrier.

[Pressure]

[Jessup]

The amount of kills a terr gets shouldn't really be that huge a factor as a terrs job first and foremost is to position safely for the team and give non DOA attach drops and of course avoid being killed. It seems silly to give so much emphasis on kills. It's akin to penalizing a shark for deaths lol..... Terr TEK bonuses I can support as skilled bursts def are an important part of a terrs job in base but this game is a clear example of something awry in the value rating system.... plus where are my bonuses for winning the match in my score/value ??? I fail to see any bonus listed at all here.

[ogron]

I've already explained terrier, and ONLY terrier... at the start of the season... in these forums. I wrote the response to these inquiries almost a month ago because I know people like Henry Saari and Rab exist, and would start posting my boxscores.

Like Kess mentioned, we're not publishing the inner workings for obvious reasons.

The only exception I would consider is in terr, since I'm writing the formulas and I terr, if there is close competition in that ship, and it's one of the more difficult positions to grade, in the interest of transparency. I could see a situation where there's a race between myself, Pressure, Mikkiz for the lone 2 spots in the Finals for terr, where Thix would raise a red flag of suspicion over the math.

Terr:

=((KPG/4)+(IF(KDA>15,15,KDA))*1)+(Teks*2)+(TeamScore)

The current formula is Kills Per Game (more accurately, your kills had the game gone the full 30 minutes) divided by 4, plus your KDA (capped at 15), plus Teks multiplied by two, plus TeamScore (how well your team did, this is unified across all ships and leagues, and not being published).

I think you'll find the formulas fairly robust and difficult to game or abuse.

Again, I reserve the right to modify the formulas over the first two weeks to make sure they pass the eye test.

Stats updated for Wednesday.

-Buffed Spider KPG value to bring them more in line with other ships
-Fixed a Shark formula error
-Terr formula now penalizes hiding all game with good KDA to rec

Spidering should now bring in roughly the same rewards as other ships. Will continue to tweak it until balanced.

Terrs who average less than 30 kills per 30 minutes will now see value penalties to their GameScore. This is an extremely low bar, and only 3 terrs have managed to go under it (Henry Saari, bellflowers (2x), and porkjet). For every kill below 30 (remember, your kills are prorated as if it were a full 30 minute game) 2$ will be taken off your score.

Henry Saari (17-2, prorated to 27 kills)
Porkjet (17-7, prorated to 22 kills)
Bellflowers (15-3, prorated to 21 kills)
Bellflowers (26-10, prorated to 28 kills)

Every other ship is tasked with carrying their own weight, and Terr should be no different. Major Crisis, Turban, Trasher, Ogron, Cape, Rab, dreamwin, and Kess have all averaged between 36-80 KPG, so 30 KPG is not an ambitious target.

I have not touched the WB or Jav formulas ever, they work fantastic.

I tinkered with the basing formulas and locked them in Week 2.


The terring formula is:

=(((H871/2.6)+(IF((B871/C871)>10,10,(B871/C871)))*1)+(E871*3)+(IF((SUM(B874:B878))<(SUM(B883 :B887)),((SUM(B883:B887))-(SUM(B874:B878)))/12,0))+IF(H871<30,(30-H871)*-2,0))-C871+K871

=(((KPG/2.6)+(IF((Kills/Deaths)>10,10,(Kills/Deaths)))*1)+(Teks*3)+(IF((SUM(FriendlySpiderKills1:FriendlySpiderKi lls5))<(SUM(EnemySpiderKills1:EnemySpiderKills5)), ((SUM(EnemySpiderKills1:EnemySpiderKills5))-(SUM(FriendlySpiderKills1:FriendlySpiderKills5)))/12,0))+IF(KPG<30,(30-KPG)*-2,0))-Deaths+TeamScore


You can imagine that in a 15:00-14:59 game, the team win/time bonuses are fairly negligible between the two terriers, then factor in I had more kills, better KDA, 2 teks to your 0, and my spiders got outkilled, giving me further bonuses for playing on a team that got outkilled. When you figure that I got 6$ in Teks alone more than you, it's not hard to imagine more kills on a team with spiders that got outkilled adds up to the extra 4-5$, accounting for the 30$ to 20$ difference.

As for your 11-0 hiding all game doing nothing on a significantly better team, that has already been explained in detail in previous posts. The formula is not going to reward hiding DNBs.

Your 11 kills are prorated to 20.6 KPG, costing you -2$ for every kill below 30 KPG.

I've been extremely transparent about terr scores, the formula has been set for weeks, and hope this will satisfy your curiosity.
Basing statistics are never going to be perfect. Teks outside the FlagRoom should not be worth as much (flinging a piece of shrap and costing the enemy team 15 seconds does not hold the same value as getting a crucial tek in a 50/50 FR fight), but for the purposes of TSL they have the same value.

That said, the formulas are geared towards action, and doing things that are measurable. Offense is measurable. Winning is measurable. Winning games or losing in a close game is worth much more than losing in a blowout.

KDA is not factored in spidering, only your kills are, so camping serves no purpose and is therefore dis-incentivized. Hiding all game in terr is dis-incentivized. I've done my best to simply make the formulas invisible and reward playing aggressively, and playing to win. Camping and hiding are not going to be rewarded in TSL.

[ogron]

This is the absolute last time I respond about the terring formula.

You have less kills, less teks, and your spiders outkilled mine... these all give me extra value. Your "win" bonuses relative to mine are minor, since my team got 13 minutes.

The formula is doing its job. You were absolutely atrocious in that game, and the only reason we got 13 minutes was due to your play in terrier. If anyone else was in, we would have lost 15-2.

The formula is guessing that you only got 26 kills, less teks, and while on the better team, and not giving you lots of $$$, and assuming you're not a good terr and did not play well, which is absolutely correct.

I want to congratulate an inane Excel formula I wrote weeks ago on not rewarding bad play.

It also only gave Rab 15$ for his do-nothing 11-0, which is spectacular. And yet, it keeps giving out tons of money to Trasher, Cape and Thix -- three of the best terriers in the game. Even in losses! It's almost as if the formula was written by someone who actually terrs, and is pretty good (albeit not perfect) at rewarding quality play, and not just sitting there on a significantly better team with no pressure and doing nothing as you accumulate burst kills and finish 21-3 in a 30 minute game.

[Rab]

You are wrong Claus. There's nothing impressive about trying to get kills just to satisfy your formula. All it does it suit your style so you can end up ranked top. Seeing as it's the last time you're going to respond, I'm also done trying to help you with drafting. Good luck sorting it out on your own.

[ogron]

lol ya, because i really need help in terr. you're right, man! it's not like i constantly change and adapt my play between TWLB and TWDT-B and TSLB depending on the personnel and teammates I have and can play every type of style. you think it matters what the rating formula is to me?

i've put thousands of hours into terrier, unlike you, who complains about how you "could" have been a TWLB starter, could have done this, could terr for that, yet never did anything. all i see are 6 and 7 star players who never worked their way up the basing chain and never pushed themselves to be great, whining about a formula that doesn't reward doing nothing and hiding.

you want to take the ball and go home like a little baby, go ahead. you've always been a quitter who bails out when things get tough, and i see nothing has changed.

[Jessup]

Gibberish nonsense dude. Incorrect stats offered in defense. Incorrect break down of the game offered. Elitist attitude offered. You are a complete joke.

That game was very fairly balanced. I did better than you and helped my team win while your deaths and reckless style made your team lose.. face it.

[ogron]

You're a garbage newbie who is terrible in every ship and has never done anything, has a brain tumor pressing against their head complaining and whining about everything all the time, you are absolute fucking trash in base, and one of the worst terriers I've ever seen play.

You don't know anything about basing or terring, and you're a complete joke in warbird and javelin running and hiding all game and being on 1 death when your entire team is out. You've given me so many free wins when we would have otherwise lost because of your terrible play I hope you never quit.

You and Rab trying to tell me you know more about terring than me is like Ray Charles telling Monet he's a shitty painter.

Just look at Sunday's games:

Blueout has been disabled. You can speak in public now.
Result of Freq 1 vs. Freq 2: 10:53 - 15:00   09 Jul 2017 22:27:51
,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
|                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 1                  /   414 |  501 |    4 |     55135 |   27 |    8 | 562 |      1139 |  0 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  Attacks                     98 |   66 |    0 |     10510 |    0 |    1 |     |       296 |  0 |
|  duality dude                69 |   86 |    0 |      8452 |    3 |    0 |     |       189 |  0 |
|  Mythril                      8 |  105 |    1 |      2357 |   10 |    1 | 2.8 |         1 |  0 |
|  not u                       73 |   56 |    0 |      9188 |    1 |    1 |     |       204 |  0 |
|  Ogron                       51 |    3 |    0 |      8202 |    0 |    3 |     |       145 |  0 |
|  skullspace                  15 |  106 |    3 |      4144 |    9 |    0 | 2.5 |         1 |  0 |
|  stung                      100 |   79 |    0 |     12282 |    4 |    2 |     |       303 |  0 |
+---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 2                  /   497 |  418 |    4 |     85529 |   27 |    3 | 568 |      3094 |  1 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  afghaN                      99 |   46 |    0 |     15473 |    5 |    1 |     |       547 |  0 |
|  GLYDE                      120 |   53 |    0 |     18336 |    2 |    0 |     |       625 |  0 |
|  Iron Survivor               89 |   56 |    0 |     15438 |    2 |    0 |     |       510 |  0 |
|  Kian                       131 |   66 |    0 |     18971 |    2 |    0 |     |       664 |  1 |
|  mcvicar                     20 |   95 |    1 |      5324 |    4 |    0 | 3.1 |       251 |  0 |
|  Mean Gene                    7 |   94 |    3 |      4160 |   12 |    1 | 2.9 |       195 |  0 |
|  Tiny                        31 |    8 |    0 |      7827 |    0 |    1 |     |       302 |  0 |
`---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'

Can you go 51-3 with 3 teks in 26 minutes in a loss where your team got outkilled by 100?

Can you then immediately follow it up with a 55-4?

Result of Freq 1 vs. Freq 2: 11:08 - 15:00   10 Jul 2017 00:08:14
,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
|                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 1                  /   524 |  559 |    7 |     74739 |   14 |    4 | 688 |      1488 |  1 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  afghaN                     106 |   61 |    0 |     14196 |    2 |    0 |     |       333 |  1 |
|  bumpa                       96 |   56 |    0 |     12674 |    0 |    0 |     |       296 |  0 |
|  Hellrazor                   64 |   87 |    0 |      8703 |    2 |    1 |     |       178 |  0 |
|  Holy Ship                   93 |   56 |    0 |     11609 |    0 |    0 |     |       285 |  0 |
|  mcvicar                     14 |  115 |    3 |      4879 |    1 |    0 | 3.0 |         1 |  0 |
|  Mythril                     15 |  114 |    4 |      4243 |    7 |    1 | 3.0 |         1 |  0 |
|  skyforger                   93 |   63 |    0 |     10895 |    1 |    1 |     |       285 |  0 |
|  thix                        43 |    7 |    0 |      7540 |    1 |    1 |     |       109 |  0 |
+---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 2                  /   552 |  531 |    7 |     93092 |   14 |    7 | 621 |      3416 |  0 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  Henry Saari                109 |   50 |    0 |     15465 |    0 |    1 |     |       577 |  0 |
|  Invincible                  80 |   83 |    0 |     12539 |    2 |    1 |     |       469 |  0 |
|  Jessup                      11 |  109 |    4 |      4534 |    4 |    1 | 2.7 |       198 |  0 |
|  kess                       116 |   55 |    0 |     19411 |    3 |    1 |     |       602 |  0 |
|  Ogron                       55 |    4 |    0 |     11484 |    0 |    1 |     |       393 |  0 |
|  stung                       83 |   69 |    0 |     12781 |    1 |    1 |     |       480 |  0 |
|  Weak                        87 |   49 |    0 |     13039 |    3 |    1 |     |       495 |  0 |
|  zidane                      11 |  112 |    3 |      3839 |    1 |    0 | 2.9 |       202 |  0 |
`---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'
Freq 2 wins this game!
MVP: kess!

Let me answer that for you -- the answer is no.

Because you're not good at the game, despite delusions to the contrary. So how about you shut the fuck up for once and just enjoy that someone has actually put time and effort into creating a league that let's you play, despite the fact you're an untalented, ungrateful, brain-damaged fuck who makes every game 10 minutes longer than it has to be because you're too retarded to understand death management and too stupid to understand you're a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[zidane]

Cracking up irl. Rab and jessup are both slightly better than afghan but absolute turd status in all ships

[Jessup]

superiority complex much???

[Rab]

Okay, clearly there's no point taking part in this league. Have fun awarding yourself a medal.

[ogron]

lol you weren't going to make anything anyway, stop kidding yourself.

[Jessup]

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...e-illegitimate

[ogron]

Cres> it wouldnt hurt to get rid of this rule...infact it would make them happy and give u a point to slap them once they dont make it despite the rule
Ogron> all it does it encourages delusional bad players to think theyre good hiding and doing nothing all game
Cres> thats my point, in the end they wont make it regardless...so let them think they failed w/o rules being against them instead of the "i would of won but system was against me/rigged"


Cres has convinced me to remove the penalization for not hitting 30 kills in 30 minutes, you're now free to go 11-0 every game without any negative consequences.

Enjoy.