Base is Rigged...................and therefore illegitimate

[kess]

Ok I should rephrase it how I meant it.. HIGHER rating should NOT be a part of this league in determining who gets preference to play in games. Total noobs even should be allowed to play it .. just make sure if one is added the other team gets one too.. we should NOT be setting games based on the "elite" players and giving them special treatment. This game is so old and we all have played it long enough to compete..


Also your smarky comment saying my performances so far reflect that are not based on anything true and you use no evidence. I was top 15 before the blacklisting started to take place. I was being added fairly often in base early and after I vsed ogron suddenly noticed an insane increase in being benched. Since the updates with ratings are being kept in complete secrecy I of course have no way to see if in fact I had some dirty corrupt business thrown my way but the stats on my percentage being benched sure went suddenly through the roof. I do know that 24 talked to qan about his stats and sub situation into this season and was behind the scenes "rigged" to be added 100% of time. I have the logs and will pull them up if needed.

I have many TEKS, a decent spider rec and a more than decent terr rec in the 2 games I terred in. Look at this game and let it sink in kess.....

Result of Freq 1 vs. Freq 2: 13:10 - 15:00   07 Jul 2017 01:27:59
,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
|                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 1                  /   454 |  487 |   11 |     69724 |   19 |    7 | 579 |      1656 |  0 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  bellflowers                 97 |   68 |    0 |     12737 |    1 |    0 |     |       360 |  0 |
|  GLYDE                       81 |   54 |    0 |     11999 |    0 |    0 |     |       302 |  0 |
|  Invincible                  14 |  104 |   10 |      4932 |    1 |    1 | 2.8 |        16 |  0 |
|  nowon                      117 |   60 |    0 |     15685 |    9 |    2 |     |       435 |  0 |
|  Ogron                       37 |   12 |    0 |      8074 |    2 |    3 |     |       144 |  0 |
|  WillBy                       7 |  107 |    1 |      3885 |    5 |    0 | 2.7 |        23 |  0 |
|  yeH                        101 |   82 |    0 |     12412 |    1 |    1 |     |       376 |  0 |
+---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Freq 2                  /   476 |  468 |   14 |     82218 |   20 |   12 | 601 |      2769 |  1 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  24                          12 |  100 |    3 |      4870 |   11 |    0 | 2.8 |       144 |  1 |
|  bumpa                       87 |   58 |    0 |     14746 |    1 |    2 |     |       434 |  0 |
|  Doughnut                   100 |   74 |    0 |     14498 |    2 |    1 |     |       482 |  0 |
|  Ease                       128 |   60 |    0 |     20357 |    1 |    3 |     |       586 |  0 |
|  Jessup                      26 |    7 |    0 |      5608 |    1 |    2 |     |       217 |  0 |
|  Waz.                        99 |   60 |    0 |     16119 |    2 |    2 |     |       478 |  0 |
|  zidane                      24 |  109 |   11 |      6020 |    2 |    2 | 2.9 |       428 |  0 |
`---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'
Freq 2 wins this game!

MVP: Ease!

Is that 1 decent basing game supposed to change my opinion? anyone who played this game as much as you can match in any given game, and quite easily.

I do agree that the higher ratings should be benched from time to time and it could be a bit more inclusive. But the high/low/unranked ratings are the variables the bot uses to match teams. The more rated players are added the more even the game is in theory. The issue could be with the database of ratings, alot of unranked players maybe.

One thing i dont agree is the notion that everyone should have the same chance at playing. Its not about me benching, i dont mind that at all, ive been skipping base quite a lot. I think you need quality players to have decent games. Even if its supposed to be inclusive, TSL is a league and a league is all about quality competition. TSL games are messy as they are,especially basing, if u gonna bench good players constantly the quality of games would drop considerably.

Sorry for typos im super tired dont wanna review.

[Banks]

A solution to this is to have games based on ratings and tiers. Bronze/Silver/Gold
Bronze players vs bronze players, silver v silver, etc.
not sure how this would be implemented, maybe a bot that tracks players based on their performance, but this can be a fix to the low tier benching problem.

[Jessup]

A solution to this is to have games based on ratings and tiers. Bronze/Silver/Gold
Bronze players vs bronze players, silver v silver, etc.
not sure how this would be implemented, maybe a bot that tracks players based on their performance, but this can be a fix to the low tier benching problem.

I have had some ideas like this one too that I can share later for future TSL seasons..basically where ratings for everyone begin equal and develop as a season progresses. I won't bother to type that now though because it is pointless. It's quite obvious this season is going to remain rigged. The premade ratings set in secret and withheld from players is the issue that makes base illegitimate currently. 50% of the players have been locked out. There really is no defense the TSL Ops can make about the fairness of this current setup which is why ogron refuses to touch this thread. He is determined to be Terr in final.. and that is final lololol. Props to qan for at least admitting the system discriminates.

[mtine]

This league (and also TWDT) were supposed to be meant for literally EVERYONE. Yet when you look at the stats and people who run it, it doesn't take a brainiac to figure out what's going on behind the scenes. It's the same people playing over and over again, if a new player or a pub newbie plays then people just start complaining how shit he is and how this league sucks. This makes me extremely sad tbh. We all were once newbs, we all learned the game over the years and yet noone ever complained as much as people do now. Are people really that desparate to win a pointless TSL league just to brag about it to their future employers how they beat a 20-year old game just so they can sell some sandwiches for real money? I really hope not.

The other thing is Leadership. I can say from my personal experience that qan and Beasty and also Henry are doing a fantastic job at running things in this league. There's of course also us hosts, but they are the real heroes. They run the show, tweak the bots, make daily sacrifice to improve the league etc etc. And then there is Ogron. Sure, he does the stats thing (which is also almost always rigged lol). but in the end all he does is just cry all the time, calls everyone an idiot, makes 0 effort to be nice even to staffers who help him with the league and is literally a pain in the ass to cope with. I mean, you guys don't see the bigger picture here.

I've talked to a lot of guys lately who play TSL, just sat in an arena with them, chatted a bit, asked for their opinions, they gave me ideas on how to improve the league for the future, how their impressions are so far, what they like/dislike about it and so forth. It really takes as little as that to just communicate with the players to see what they think of all of this. And let me tell you, they thought Ogron was God. Lol. Then they read the forum threads, saw him speak during TSL and otherwise and the opinions about him have changed drastically. It's no surprise he wants to run this league because if he didn't he wouldn't be nowhere near the top 10 spots in any league. But hey, it's his league and he can do whatever he wants, right?

Wrong. We are a small community who still enjoy the ride and wanna have fun before this game dies. So why not step together and do something fun that we all want? Like a league (maybe improve TSL in a way) where REALLY ANYONE can compete, regardless of skill and usage, and still have the best time? Does that sound so wrong? I'm not so sure it does.

Anyways, if people have ideas or just wanna improve stuff around here, don't be afraid to do so. VOICE YOUR OPINION. Make a thread about it or just talk to me or any other staffer online. We won't bite you, promise!

PS. Jessup, this is Trench Wars, not Marathon Wars. Mmk?

[zidane]

lol holy hell man give it a rest u dork. if you look at the ratings its pretty easy to realize the top players are those who have shown to almost every game and arent complete trash

[Crescent Seal]

Reality is that at this stage of the game there never will be a truly inclusive competitive league. The skill gap is too massive and majority of the vets don't really care about developing/promoting newbies. The concept behind TSL seems inclusive and it does give newbies an opportunity to play competitively with and against vets which is a major plus point. For the most part, all newbies are guaranteed play time which TWDT failed at. However, a guy like Ease for example could play only 30 warbird games and his best 20 games would average out to 15-7 while someone like Glyde with 300 games would have an average of 10-10. The low activity/high quality of a vet would get him into the finals while a super active newbie trying his heart out would be benched. Players improve the most in big games such as playoffs/finals and if the same fgts end up in the finals then there is no actual progress. The argument of "well the best players should make it" makes sense for TWL and even TWDT to some degree, but I think majority of the zone was under the impression that this was truly for everyone hence the huge backlash.

Another thing...Ogron is getting way too much unnecessary hate (more than usual). Its no secret hes probably the top 5 most disliked player of all time (mostly his own doing), but this current opportunity to troll/hate on him wouldn't even exist if he didn't put in the work and initiative to create the league to begin with. Its a work in progress so take it for what it is and use this opportunity to get exposure to competitive play.

Also, water u all waring?

[kess]

This league (and also TWDT) were supposed to be meant for literally EVERYONE.

And then there is Ogron. Sure, he does the stats thing (which is also almost always rigged lol). but in the end all he does is just cry all the time, calls everyone an idiot, makes 0 effort to be nice even to staffers who help him with the league and is literally a pain in the ass to cope with.

TWDT isnt meant for everyone. Sure everyone gets drafted, but only the best players and low * players get to play. Its not supposed to be a pub league where every game is a shitshow.

And i do agree Claus needs to tone it down. He is getting very defensive to any critic he gets. If you are in a leadership position you need to be able to listen and take criticism. However, i also think alot of players are too hard on him, he was the one who had the idea and defined the league, he needs some respect from the players in general. Its a mix between him being a diva and the players giving him shit 24/7, both partys are in the wrong.

[Jones]

we're all just special snowflakes, aren't we

[Efhat]

Another thing...Ogron is getting way too much unnecessary hate (more than usual). Its no secret hes probably the top 5 most disliked player of all time (mostly his own doing), but this current opportunity to troll/hate on him wouldn't even exist if he didn't put in the work and initiative to create the league to begin with. Its a work in progress so take it for what it is and use this opportunity to get exposure to competitive play.

Also, water u all waring?

This.
Ogron single handedly created a separate league for when this zone is mostly inactive. He put in all the work, he put in the formulas, rules, what have you whiners done besides complain?
When Ogron went MIA do any of you remember how inactive this zone was? TWDT wasn't the same when Ogron was not here. Ogron has done more for this game to be actually enjoyable then half of you trolls have done. Ogron single handedly ran TWDT, wrote every single HON, and now he's created this league.
If you don't agree with the formulas, ratings, or the way Ogron runs his own league then why don't you take the time you spend on this forum complaining about game play and come up with a league of your own?
I'm sorry Jessup but we've all played this game for plenty of years. You have played this game a lot longer than myself and many others have. You out of all people should know since the beginning of this game, the best players have been chosen first. I use to not get picked in ?go base back in 2010 for literally days. I didn't go on a forum and complain about it. I practiced and I made myself better.
These formulas from what I see are not biased, they're based on skill. I can't really say much because I have not logged in since the TWDT finals, but I'm sure if I logged in I would get added and play.
Like Cres, zidane, Kess and many others have explained on this forum, there is a huge gap between the veterans, the mediocres, and the newbies. And it will ALWAYS be that way.
While I do agree the newer, less-skilled players should have a chance to play, the veterans is what keeps this game active and competitive.
Someone recommended a B-league, while it is a good idea on paper, we tried that 10 years ago with basing when this zone averaged 700-800 players. I think the vets can remember that. (thix, kess, zidane, etc.) And the league ended up being a fail. It definitely won't work now with the population this zone has.
Like zidane said, and as I'm looking at the charts, it's true. The top players are the usual veterans who show up, do good, and keep this game alive. The same group of players that have kept this game going for the last 10 years.

While I do understand that newbies should play, we also have to keep the games competitive, and keep the veterans interested. This has always been issue since the beginning of time.

There is no need to hate on the one man who has single handedly kept this zone active and competitive. Instead of bashing him, help him. There's no need to be posting immature threads like this that basing is "Rigged". Man up, make some recommendations, and help out the zone. What is this complaining going to do? You're still not going to get added in games, and this won't improve your basing skills.

sorry for edit.
testing/ updating sig

[Jones]

sorry for edit.
testing/ updating sig

your sig looks ugly without twld champion. ugh. go away

[mtine]

If Ogron is the only one behind the league, then he can just host it all I suppose. Right?

Think I'll go grab a beer or 30 and just enjoy the shitshow from my veranda. #feelsgoodman

[skyforger]

Jessup is currently 22nd out of 115 in Base, which is her worst league by far. The league has been running for some time now, if a player in the top 20% has these issues (being benched 7 times in a row i heard somewhere?), then it is certainly worth looking into for the organizers imo. Players less skilled and vocal than Jessup might be getting an even shorter end of straw than that.

[ogron]

It's worth noting that everyone gets to play 2 out of 3 leagues, as players get in 99% of every warbird and javelin game.

This is because it is extremely easy to divide almost any number into games of 5v5 and 4v4 so that, at most, 2 people sit.

We tried 6v6 matches and they were a complete disaster, and veteran basers revolted. We upped it to a 7v7 minimum (and there are still grumbles.)

When there are 30 people in ?go TSL, and 23 sign up for base, that's only enough for a single 8v8 game, meaning 7 players get added to the sub list.

The ideal spot to get everyone playing is 28 players signing up to play, which creates two 7v7 matches.

I can't bench veterans over newbies. If a top baser who has a legitimate shot at becoming TSL All-Star but shows 25 times, and I bench him 7x, I'm essentially removing him as competition for myself and other top players by artificially limiting him to 18 games, thus drastically increasing the odds of powernerds like myself who play significantly more games of reaching the Finals ahead of them.

TSLB is legitimate precisely because it ensures the best players with the highest percentage make to make Finals get the playtime they need to qualify.

The reality is that the game's population is not healthy. If 150 people showed up for TSL, you'd get into 99% of the basing games.

It's also worth noting most of the games you can't get into are bonus games. Going by the schedule, there have been 18 scheduled TSLB games, and Jessup has played... 18 TSLB games.

I can look into perhaps adding a "low star slot" in single 8v8s, where the final spot on both teams checks a list of players who have benched several games in a row, and cycles through the list to add them, but there is no ideal solution, and there is a huge backlog of bot work on qan's list, so don't expect anything soon.

[Jessup]

I didn't make this thread about ogron as a player.. I made it about the rating policy and the insane amount of benches I was experiencing and seeing with other players who can compete and rank high. Also my point was TSL was advertised to be inclusive with randomized adding for ALL.


Efhat says "Ogron single handedly created a separate league for when this zone is mostly inactive. He put in all the work, he put in the formulas, rules, what have you whiners done besides complain?"

This is true and I HAVE commended him both privately and on forums threads for doing this work many times... still I can't help but be annoyed that his system lets him and a certain group of players play every game always. To say that that everyone who posts against a rigged adding system is just a whiner and do nothing is pretty shallow. They joined the league, they commit their time to show up, they do !p yet are not given an equal chance to play and rank for the end result of the league. THEY ARE DOING ABOUT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN WHEN IT COMES TO THIS LEAGUE .. without players having we have nothing. also making comments on threads when there is a legitimate issue is not whining..

Efhat says "There is no need to hate on the one man who has single handedly kept this zone active and competitive. Instead of bashing him, help him. There's no need to be posting immature threads like this that basing is "Rigged". Man up, make some recommendations, and help out the zone.
One ...it was not immature.. it is a fact that the rating system is rigged ..

Two ... I've helped the zone every day for years as staff doing help calls and maintaining the zones integrity and also trained many great new players and given countless noobs the chances on squads like Paladen and Warpath they deserved to become good. I never saw Dice doing these things.. you were about as closed and elitest a squad as they came and quite the trolls too at that.

Efhat says "What is this complaining going to do? You're still not going to get added in games, and this won't improve your basing skills."

LOL..this shows how closed minded you are and makes my whole point about the type mentality that caused this entire rating issue in the first place.. typical Dice player. You are WRONG. It absolutely should help players improve their basing skills who typically have been on DD and JD squads and are excited to transition and compete in base with competitive basers. This Zones basing player field has been the most closed off and elitest acting division for years because of the small population and to continue this trend is a big detriment. The whole point of my thread is to change this mentality. There are some amazing players who deserve to be recognized.

I was happy today to see the games were held with no subs.. it was a good day for basing.. I do like TSL.. but I don't like the basing rating policy and hope that a better and more inclusive one can be implemented.

[Jones]

It absolutely should help players improve their basing skills who typically have been on DD and JD squads and are excited to transition and compete in base with competitive basers.

you misunderstand. basers have been killing base for the last 5 years or so by stacking on 2-3 squads every season. and you are not welcome to destroy this trend.

just stop playing it, like they tell you to. let the cancer kill itself.