TWEL Playoffs

[Izor]

you wanna try and run a 1v1 playoff all by yourself? Originally I think that it was supposed to be completely automated and have the bot pm the people every hour with !yes to accept blah blah and whoever answered yes most won, but if I'm not mistaken that caused tw to crash many times, and since there was a deadline and pressure on him to hurry, this is the result. I dont really know how anyone would handle this but I just dont think theres a very logical way to handle that many disputes over 'he never showed'. Perhaps next season a fully automated system will work

[s4j3n]

no one said he had to do it alone and was not the best idea for it to be done as such can't tell me no one wouldn't of helped

[Ikrit]

s4, when people do have disputes over a bot ruling I usually go and check it out... when you talked to me, I checked out both of your records and you haven't dueled ANYONE since about halfway through round one. Your opponent had dueled a couple times during round two... how are you going to convince an automated system that you're more active than your opponent if you do not play? If you would have played ONE game in javs, you would have got the autowin.

Edit: Also, who could really help out with TWEL? I admit it is a lot of work, but the stuff that I have to do is really only a one person job (editing duelbot, writing the tourny bracket code, etc). If you have really need me to do something, do a ?help, convince a staffer, and have them ?message me the stuff so I have someone other than yourself to base a decision off of. People sending me messages like "Hey, this guy lagged through our duel, I want a rematch" don't get anything done...

So, ehm... I guess what I'm trying to say is that it'd be nice to split the work load, but it wouldn't work very well and you can have other staffers check out stuff if I'm not around.

[Zazu]

Also, who could really help out with TWEL? I admit it is a lot of work, but the stuff that I have to do is really only a one person job (editing duelbot, writing the tourny bracket code, etc). If you have really need me to do something, do a ?help, convince a staffer, and have them ?message me the stuff so I have someone other than yourself to base a decision off of. People sending me messages like "Hey, this guy lagged through our duel, I want a rematch" don't get anything done...

I think it would be smarter if you wouldn't do it by yourself. Why do we have like 5 TWD-ops ? For fun ?
Why do we have more than one sysop ? For fun ?
Sure I understand that you can do somethings just better by yourself. But seriously I think you should get someone else to help you.
I got the impression you believe you are the only person who can code bots and who can think of several things.
Maybe someone else has got a way better idea for your "non-played duels". And maybe someone else can code the bots better.
The TWEL idea is cool , but it certainly has its errors, and I believe you could fix them faster & better with some help.

Edit: The thing for the "non-played duels" isn't THAT bad, but s4 has got a point. You are just getting obliged to play "go duel" this way.. to prove you're online. My next opponent hasn't been online for the last 5 days. While I'm online every day for 10 hours a day. But I don't really play "go duel" these days.
So if he'd just come back the last day, and would play 1 duel, he'd beat me without even playing me. That sucks.
Maybe you should think of an usage idea. Count the session usages throughout the week. I don't know either .. Nothing seems to be good enough to fix this problem. Because counting usage would mean you could be AFK for 7 days and win without playing aswell. Hard..

[Ikrit]

Ok, yes, there are some people who can code bots better than I can like 2dragons, DoCk>, PriitK, and with some things qan and D1st0rt. 2d, DoCk>, and Priit are all quite busy these days and I was the one left with the coding of TWEL. We have like 8 TWD operators because there are so many just quick bot commands to fix stuff for players and a complete guideline on how to do stuff. We have four sysops because running an entire zone just requires a lot of work. I guess I can talk to 2d about getting another person around to help me out during playoffs... but you can't blame all the stuff that went wrong on me having a lack of assistance. I can't control people not showing up for matches, I can't control that the best system for doing autoadvances crashes TW, and I can't control that sometimes you get screwed by the system because overall, the system worked pretty well for people that simply demonstrated activity.

[s4j3n]

i can say i'm more active than a person who didn't show up for the whole second round while i was waiting for him to show up it doesn't matter if i didn't partake in any duels the fact is i was online and the fact is he wasn't online simple as that i hope it's not complicated if so i suppose i could go into more details for you oh and there is a person who is banned for a year who is winning duels without being online since that person is banned of course that's pretty fair wouldn't you say? hopefully next time we will not have such a travesty of a twel one can only hope. one thing that could of been done sure it would take more effort but that's what others could of been doing to help i myself would of helped maybe try the command ?find player as you would see my guy hasn't been seen sure it would take more effort but that's what help is for and if you want this to succeed you would not simply overlook the mistakes that have been made and perhaps try to fix them ignoring the problem isn't going to help anything and that's what you are doing and i really doubt i'm the only person with this problem since like i said someone banned is winning duels how do you justify that maybe the person that lost should of been more active right i would hope you would never consider saying something as dumb as that so enough with this mess we know the system is crap well maybe not total crap but very not so great now are you willing to work through it and maybe correct it that's up to you

[Ikrit]

You know, I actually did go through a lot of duels and do the ?find command on people at the beginning of the playoffs and kicked out people that were 10+ days off. Want to know what happened because I kicked inactives out then? I got about 10 people yelling at me for kicking their names out after the first round was over... is logging onto your name and just playing some duels while waiting for your opponent that hard to do?


As for the player that is banned and winning... how the hell am I supposed to know when someone gets banned? Last I checked, I don't have BanG and even if I did am I supposed to go check to see who was banned every day to see if they are in TWEL? If they were banned and still won their match, they were obviously active and had a couple of games played for last week. Obviously the system doesn't work so well when I tell people exactly how it works, so do you think I'm going to be using the same system for next week or do you think that I may have a couple tricks up my sleeve?


Last thing before I go back to my robotics work, s4... quite freaking complaining, it is not my fault or the system's fault that you did not play a single duel in over a week.

[s4j3n]

no it's not hard to play duels is it so hard to make a non pos twel no it's not yet you fail to do so yes it's true you didn't know about the banned player i was just pointing it out to show ppl how retarded this is to where a banned player can win easily if you woulnd't be so lazy in making this run proper from the start we could of used your "tricks" from the beginning so that ppl that didn't even bother to log on for a whole round woulnd't end up winning i'm only complaining because this is running like crap and like i said i don't have to play any games at all it has nothing to do with my player not showing up at all during the second round it seems you can't get that through your head looks like you are having a hard time of understanding my guy did not log in for the whole second round no possible way anyone should lose not just myself but anyone and now that you know a banned person is winning did you take care of it yet or maybe that banned person will end up winning this thing now that would be something but from you i supposed it could be expected twel is jaded not that the winner will care since a win is a win but when ppl that should still be in such as myself and others it will produce results that may not of been if some of us were able to proceed as we should of either i hope you never are in charge of twel or you get help next time since this time you did a very bad job and it is your fault and the systems fault stop playing the role of innocent when you are so clearly not now i'm offically done talking about this and wasting more of my time as i did "playing" twel so don't waste your breathe or of course your time to set things right just let this pos continue as is

[Izor]

If it makes you feel any better s4 i got screwed way worse than you :P but i think you should have at least adjusted some and dueled maybe once or twice. Looking at it from the outside the way an automated system would, if you and a higher ranked opponent both never played a duel during the timeframe, it would advance the higher ranked. Its easy to see where youre coming from that at least you logged on, but I think Ikrit even said at start to play duels if your opponent doesnt show for just that reason.

btw ive never seen you mad at anything before lol

[Ward]

If it makes you feel any better s4 i got screwed way worse than you :P but i think you should have at least adjusted some and dueled maybe once or twice. Looking at it from the outside the way an automated system would, if you and a higher ranked opponent both never played a duel during the timeframe, it would advance the higher ranked. Its easy to see where youre coming from that at least you logged on, but I think Ikrit even said at start to play duels if your opponent doesnt show for just that reason.

btw ive never seen you mad at anything before lol

you weren't screwed izor. i watched that game and olympia girl owned u fair and square. i also watched her other rounds, and i didnt see anything fishy about her. she's just a good dueler and you have to admit it

[SLaQ n Sauce]

S4J3N MUST OF HAD HIS PERIOD button removed from his keyboard he didnt use it once!

But seriously, if i had lost a duel because my opponent was never around i would be pretty angry too. I also dont like the idea that I have to play a bunch of pointless duels just to maintain my activity with the bot, because this can lead to people refusing to play their scheduled twel game vs a hard player and just play hundreds of newbies/squadmates for the week and get a free win because they are "more active".

However, thumbs up to ikrit for actually jumping on the ball and starting something, even if it is far from a perfect system, because at least it is a starting point which can be built upon and improved for seasons to come. Maybe getting some additional assistance in working out the bugs could be taken into consideration if you can find anyone willing to help.

PS - Olympia girl sucks.

[Ikrit]

Considering I do not even know who the banned player is and I can't even check the people I think may be it because I don't have bang, I haven't been able to fix anything regarding that player yet.

I believe I got quite a few PM's that basically said "how is autoadvance going to work?", do you think I really told everyone "Oh, it'll see if you've played a duel, dock you a bunch of points if you haven't and add up some ratings then compare with your opponent"? No! I kept the system a secret until enough people were knocked out of the competition so that I could actually do it a different way and not kill the server. I do remember telling everyone in just about every single zoner and I think even in a PM here to play duel if they were waiting on their opponent.

So, s4, what do you want me to do? Do you want me to quit because you lost a match? With all the crap going on in my life already, that would just free up some of my time.

[2dragons]

Lot to read here, just skimmed over it. Most important thing is that Ikrit is recognized for his effort he has put into this. I know things aren't working perfectly but that's a fact of life. Remeber TWEL season 2 I had said I'd have playoffs. Season 3 rolls around and I said it again but I had a hard time motivating myself to finish the work. Well thank you Ikrit for stepping up and taking over the completetion of the tourny and overseeing it.

At this point everyone just needs to brainstorm about how to improve the system for next season. That'll be most helpful to Ikrit. Also now that I've reached a more satisifed point in my life I'm hoping I can offer him assistance next season.

Anyway follow this link to write up your concise and complete suggestions for next season so we have some record of them: http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthread.php?t=23073