Appeal: Paddington vs. Kamikaze

[Tiny]

We are officially appealing the Paddington vs Kamikaze TWDTB matchup due to illegal players added at the beginning of the game pressure/wax. Game was void when they entered the game regardless of anything after that.

Scenario

Game started with Paddington having 8v6 kamikaze. All is well until kamikaze adds Pressure(8* player who is not even in TWDTB) and wax (7*) player on another team. They proceed to comeback and take the lead. Meanwhile, Rui (uprise on kamikaze is in spec not being put in. Mad jack lagouts and leaves us 8v7. So,a couple minutes go by and I sub in Rui for mad jack. A 6* for a 6* as skatarius does not sub him in for one of his high * subs. Rui goes 1-2 before he is subbed out for mad jack's return. Kamikaze proceeds to win.

The problem with this is Illegal subs, wax/pressure, which are too high of subs to be put in, also pressure not even in twdt.. This should result in a Forfeit. One could say I made an illegal sub by adding Rui for 30 secs, but the truth is he is a 6* and on the bench for other team and not getting added, while the team he is on doesn't sub him in. This makes him fair game for a sub or if Skat says no subbing him in, then I say no subbing in Pressure/wax (that I did not agree to) and as we started the game with a legal line and they did not, we also win there too.

Please add win for Paddington

[2pac]

paadington u guys cheat vs silence in jd but we not complain

[Tiny]

paadington u guys cheat vs silence in jd but we not complain

If by cheat u mean Crush, then you are correct.

[2pac]

If by cheat u mean Crush, then you are correct.

you done traded half ur draft thats cheatz

[ogron]

The game in question:

Result of Kamikaze vs. Paddington: 15:00 - 8:22
,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
|                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Kamikaze                /   472 |  420 |   14 |     96146 |   16 |    8 | 510 |     82307 |  2 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  Cloth                       78 |   47 |    0 |     15393 |    2 |    2 |     |     13502 |  1 |
|  cyrus                       80 |   37 |    0 |     13860 |    1 |    1 |     |     15367 |  0 |
|  Jimbei                      75 |   49 |    0 |     15165 |    0 |    0 |     |     13739 |  1 |
|  Morph                       19 |   91 |    3 |      5598 |    5 |    1 | 2.8 |     -1659 |  0 |
|  nosydawg                    87 |   57 |    0 |     15760 |    2 |    2 |     |     18502 |  0 |
|  Pressure                    32 |   14 |    0 |      9128 |    0 |    1 | 2.0 |     10455 |  0 |
|  skatarius                   83 |   42 |    0 |     15470 |    0 |    0 |     |     17347 |  0 |
|  Wax                         18 |   83 |   11 |      5772 |    6 |    1 | 2.9 |     -4946 |  0 |
+---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Paddington              /   406 |  488 |   16 |     47443 |   16 |    5 | 554 |     17733 |  1 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  24                          11 |   97 |   11 |      2514 |    6 |    0 | 2.7 |     -2201 |  0 |
|  Best                       104 |   55 |    0 |     10863 |    1 |    0 |     |     15282 |  1 |
|  Conspiracy                  10 |   99 |    5 |      2283 |    4 |    0 | 2.9 |     -1055 |  0 |
|  Holy Ship                   77 |   69 |    0 |      7761 |    1 |    1 |     |      3570 |  0 |
|  inmate                      63 |   60 |    0 |      6552 |    1 |    2 |     |      2856 |  0 |
|  jerome                      71 |   47 |    0 |      6520 |    1 |    1 |     |      6008 |  0 |
|  mad jack the pirat          48 |   51 |    0 |      6466 |    1 |    0 |     |      1412 |  0 |
|  Rui                          1 |    2 |    0 |       203 |    0 |    0 |     |         0 |  0 |
|  Tiny                        21 |    8 |    0 |      4281 |    1 |    1 |     |     -8139 |  0 |
`---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'
Kamikaze wins this game!

The decision will come to whether to replay the match during Week 6 @ 4:30pm EST, or to award Tiny the victory. These are the only two outcomes I'm considering.

Skatarius blatantly cheated abusing the unlocked bots and adding Pressure, who isn't even in TWDT. Moreover, he illegally borrowed a 7-Star player in Wax.

Ordinarily, this would be a cut-and-dry forfeit and Tiny would be awarded the win.

The issue is that after Skatarius illegally added two players, Tiny had a lagout and subbed in Rui, who is a low-star player -- the problem is that he is on Skatarius's team. You're not supposed to borrow enemy team's players, it's a conflict of interest and I've told captains not to do it.

This is further complicated, however, as that part of the borrowing rule is not specifically written into the Rules page. It's known, and I've said not to do it, but I forgot to include it in the rules section.

Pressure and Wax played the full game, while Rui went 1-2 and was in for less than a minute. Do infringements on both sides constitute having the game replayed? Do the Wax and Rui adds cancel each other out, leaving the egregious addition of Pressure as a starter when he's not even in the league, meaning we should award Tiny the win?

This is a complicated and convoluted situation, and I don't know the correct answer to those questions.

I'm probing several players for their opinions and getting feedback, and I'll have a decision by Monday at the latest.

[Tiny]

Playing down a man counts as 5-Stars. Playing down two is a forfeit. Congratulations to the two Captains who tried to get around star limits by playing down a man last year and forcing me to make this rule, I applaud your creativity.

Another reason for forfeit

[ogron]

There's also a timeline consideration, where Tiny had a legal 8-man team in, while Skatarius added players illegally. If we deem the game declared forfeit at the point of entry of either Pressure or Wax, then is Tiny later on subbing in Rui relevant?

[Jerome Scuggs]

I am all for a replay just to avoid the bad blood. That being said I am pretty sure the game started out 8v6 and just got more ridiculous from there.

Lotta complications- Host was playing I think, Tiny didn't immediately tell us to spec and in the past continuing to play has been seen as condoning the game, and added Rui. On the flip side Kami was down 2 players and made illegal add/subs

I think we could take 'em in a replay!!!!

[ogron]

If anyone has the logs from the game, that would be helpful.

[Tiny]

Jerome, you haven't left the dtb arena, can you scroll up and take a screenshot of when pressure/wax were added and mad jack subbed in/out?

[Inmate]

I've sat down with Turban/Ogron and had him attempt to help me with enabling settings on my laptop. Long story short, logs are not accessible. That being said. let me say first of all that I am on Paddington and was playing in this match. We (staff) were scrambling to find hosts for the TWDT basing matches and i volunteered to host our match since I was going to be playing in it anyways. The match did start 8v6 in favor of Paddington. Pressure/Wax were added to this game well before Rui was subbed in. By looking at the scores, you can tell that Rui was added after the fact that of pressure/wax unless he blatantly didnt add his own teamate, which would also be a direct violation of rules.

[Tiny]

Why would I sub Rui in for one of my own players when we were up 8v6, the answer is, we wouldn't. Its obvious that pressure/wax were already in game when this happened, bc we would have played 7v6. Once those two entered the game, it was over. Rui was of no significance

[Jerome Scuggs]

I got the log, lemme edit out my priv chats

[Jerome Scuggs]

9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
9:Tiny> DTB2
Welcome to Trench Wars Draft Tournament
 MatchBot3> Welcome to TWDT-B, Teams: Kamikaze vs. Paddington. We are currently arranging lineups.
jerome in for Paddington with ship 3
 MatchBot3> You've been put in the game.
mad jack the pirat in for Paddington with ship 3
 skatarius> y u have so bad turnout tiny
        24> let's destroy them
Best in for Paddington with ship 3
 skatarius> is ur team ded
        24> nobody cares about basing
        24> on this team
cyrus in for Kamikaze with ship 3
      Tiny> A^
Pressure in for Kamikaze with ship 3
 Holy Ship> i do :(
Pressure (3) and skatarius (5) switched ships.
        24> gotem
mad jack t> changing res brb
Reward: 200 points
NOTICE: 1 minute remaining.
    inmate> they have enuf?
    jerome> ofc im finally here n they gna forfeit
        24> y u have so bad turnout skat
skatarius (3) and Pressure (5) switched ships.
    jerome> fuckin out mvp'd my bro on thursday im so rdy for this
Reward: 200 points
Time is up. Rosters are OK.
Both teams are ready, game starts in 30 seconds
Blueout has been enabled. Staff, please enable the !power command or do not speak in public chat.
mad jack t> what is the attach button?
      Tiny> LOL
    jerome> a
Conspiracy> esc
Go go go!
Pressure changed from ship 3 to ship 8
Reward: 200 points
Reward: 200 points
      Tiny> what u die from
Wax in for Kamikaze with ship 3
Pressure (8) and skatarius (5) switched ships.
      Tiny> LOL
Wax (3) and skatarius (8) switched ships.
      Tiny> these subs..
      Tiny> got 8* sub
      Tiny> and 7* sub
      Tiny> sweeet
Reward: 200 points
        24> gotem
Reward: 200 points
        24> shit
Conspiracy> lol
    jerome> BOOM
      Best> LOL
      Best> slammin these kids
    inmate> got em
Reward: 200 points
    jerome> ????????????
    jerome> lol
      Best> LOL
Conspiracy> under
        24> doa
      Best> get out
      Best> of there
Conspiracy> go out
        24> damn 
      Tiny> oh come on
      Best> dont go in ear
      Best> gj
      Best> LOL
    jerome> omg
      Best> sigh
Conspiracy> lets calm down they ez
        24> cong
        24> with me
Conspiracy> 
Conspiracy> eew
Conspiracy> had to use else ded
        24> it went right into them
        24> for me
      Tiny> wtf
    jerome> yeah me2
      Best> PUSH
      Best> PUSH
      Best> PUSH
      Best> PUSH
        24> fk
    jerome> 
Conspiracy> puuuushhh
      Best> ioce
      Best> nice
    jerome> ////
Conspiracy> WTF?
      Tiny> LOL
Reward: 200 points
      Best> lol
      Best> wow
    jerome> 
    jerome> ///
Conspiracy> under
Conspiracy> doa
      Best> sigh
      Best> ...
      Best> ...
      Best> ...
        24> 'SHDIF
      Best> ...
      Best> COME ON
      Best> worst fkn drops
      Best> ever
9:Tiny> sub in dtb2
mad jack the pirat has been substituted by Rui
6:Rui> Wtf
        24> GOTEM
        24> GO
6:Ravage> wut
6:Rui> tiny just added me to paddington twbdt
6:Ravage> lol
6:Rui> im on kamikaze
6:Ravage> he thinks ur someone else
    jerome>  
Conspiracy> under
Conspiracy> under
Conspiracy> under
Conspiracy> under
        24> flag
        24> get that flag team
Rui has been substituted by mad jack the pirat
6:Rui> hahah
6:Rui> he subbed me back out
    jerome> fkn skat
6:Rui> i was like wtf
    jerome> whatever
      Best> ...
Conspiracy> ....
      Tiny> god damn guys
Conspiracy> lmao.
6:Rui> im so confused
Conspiracy> rly
        24> i didn't rep it
Kamikaze needs 3 mins of flag time to win
Conspiracy> lol 2x doa
      Best> lol
7:kado> yo stung
7:kado> high five my man
7:kado> 3.1rpd
7:stung> and a tek
7:stung> lol
7:kado> $
      Best> cmon
    jerome> omfg
      Tiny> double td
        24> LOL CONPS
        24> YOU FUKING IDIOT
Kamikaze needs 1 minute of flag time to win
      Best> lol 
Reward: 200 points
Conspiracy> under
Conspiracy> owned
      Tiny> gj
        24> lol consp
      Best> u guys r dookie lol
Conspiracy> :D
      Best> jesus
Conspiracy> 5-0 to gg
      Best> we were up 5-0 lol
Blueout has been disabled. You can speak in public now.
Result of Kamikaze vs. Paddington: 15:00 - 8:22
,---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----.
|                               K |    D |   TK |    Points |   FT |  TeK | RPD |    Rating | LO |
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Kamikaze                /   472 |  420 |   14 |     96146 |   16 |    8 | 510 |     82307 |  2 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  Cloth                       78 |   47 |    0 |     15393 |    2 |    2 |     |     13502 |  1 |
|  cyrus                       80 |   37 |    0 |     13860 |    1 |    1 |     |     15367 |  0 |
|  Jimbei                      75 |   49 |    0 |     15165 |    0 |    0 |     |     13739 |  1 |
|  Morph                       19 |   91 |    3 |      5598 |    5 |    1 | 2.8 |     -1659 |  0 |
|  nosydawg                    87 |   57 |    0 |     15760 |    2 |    2 |     |     18502 |  0 |
|  Pressure                    32 |   14 |    0 |      9128 |    0 |    1 | 2.0 |     10455 |  0 |
|  skatarius                   83 |   42 |    0 |     15470 |    0 |    0 |     |     17347 |  0 |
|  Wax                         18 |   83 |   11 |      5772 |    6 |    1 | 2.9 |     -4946 |  0 |
+---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
|                          ,------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----+
| Paddington              /   406 |  488 |   16 |     47443 |   16 |    5 | 554 |     17733 |  1 |
+------------------------'        |      |      |           |      |      |     |           |    |
|  24                          11 |   97 |   11 |      2514 |    6 |    0 | 2.7 |     -2201 |  0 |
|  Best                       104 |   55 |    0 |     10863 |    1 |    0 |     |     15282 |  1 |
|  Conspiracy                  10 |   99 |    5 |      2283 |    4 |    0 | 2.9 |     -1055 |  0 |
|  Holy Ship                   77 |   69 |    0 |      7761 |    1 |    1 |     |      3570 |  0 |
|  inmate                      63 |   60 |    0 |      6552 |    1 |    2 |     |      2856 |  0 |
|  jerome                      71 |   47 |    0 |      6520 |    1 |    1 |     |      6008 |  0 |
|  mad jack the pirat          48 |   51 |    0 |      6466 |    1 |    0 |     |      1412 |  0 |
|  Rui                          1 |    2 |    0 |       203 |    0 |    0 |     |         0 |  0 |
|  Tiny                        21 |    8 |    0 |      4281 |    1 |    1 |     |     -8139 |  0 |
`---------------------------------+------+------+-----------+------+------+-----+-----------+----'
Kamikaze wins this game!
  Pressure> rekt
MVP: nosydawg!
      Best> im the real mvp obv
Congrats to Kamikaze! See you next week! -inmate

[Jerome Scuggs]

first thing i can see is it looks like kami started out 8v7... but i distinctly remember seeing 8v6 so im guessing someone was in spec when i checked the lines. if you don't count pressure then it was definitely 8v6 as far as allowed players go