Proposed ratings changes

[Zeebu]

we had that for an entire roster* if i recall, not on a per line basis

edit:

free agency was a total cluster. caps dropped folks that they were never going to play and then bid like 20 on folks that were good.

[Jessup]

I don't think raising mediocre players to 7's and jamming playtime for 7 stars is the answer. I strongly feel my 6 star rating is appropriate in javs. I feel I should be lowered to a 6 in base and lowered to 7 in warbird too. Most of these changes is doing one thing. Assuring mediocre players like myself they will have zero chance to play next twdt. I have no TWL medals and my history in twdt is fairly vacant. 6 stars should not be judged so harshly. We have a pool of players who are active and we should determine who falls where within that contingent.

[skyforger]

The whole system is rather flawed as is. There is no good reason why Hellrazor or someone from Steam should be same static 6-star rating as the less successful vets.

[zidane]

I hope skyforger never has any input on ratings because according to him our only 6 star player will be hellrazor. Man is mentioning steam players as if we have any or as if dt rules are preventing steam players from enjoying tw. Delusional stuff...

I agree with Kim said it's about balance. We actually tried to balance everything out but apparently did a poor job on 8* wb which I wasn't aware of until major said it now

[skyforger]

I hope skyforger never has any input on ratings because according to him our only 6 star player will be hellrazor. Man is mentioning steam players as if we have any or as if dt rules are preventing steam players from enjoying tw. Delusional stuff...

I agree with Kim said it's about balance. We actually tried to balance everything out but apparently did a poor job on 8* wb which I wasn't aware of until major said it now

You are so ignorant. If you read another thread very next to this one, Unlimited for example shares his and his friends experience being new EG expats trying to transition to TW leagues. There's more valuable players or rather -nobodies- to you I've heard similar sentiment from. But ya, let's keep being selfish assholes.

[Ricko]

I have no issue having my ratings dropped because I just don't play anymore and doubtful I'll ever bother getting active again (I haven't been remotely active for 3+ years any way).

[Zeebu]

there isnt nearly enough differentiation between players. as you get to 9s and 10s it doesnt matter at all. the variability of skill between the 6 and 7 guys is hilariously huge. especially since assigning ratings is totally subjective and mid range folks constantly petition themselves to be as low as possible.

[RaCka]

Paradise should be changed to 2/3/7

[skyforger]

there isnt nearly enough differentiation between players. as you get to 9s and 10s it doesnt matter at all. the variability of skill between the 6 and 7 guys is hilariously huge. especially since assigning ratings is totally subjective and mid range folks constantly petition themselves to be as low as possible.

Yup, that's what I was trying to say with the system being flawed. There is only 4 brackets but playerbase skill varies wayyy more. The lower you go the larger the difference between players within one category and the more crowded it gets for one meager starter spot.

Of course just bumping up every TW vet out of 6-stars isn't a solution either, there are some outlier vets that still are true 6s and it would make the problem worse at now 7s being too crowded. Some solutions would be to add more brackets and reconsider how star cap works, make a limit for whole starting lineup not individual player stars. And/or some kind of cooloff mechanism that incentives teams to eventually use as much of their drafted players as possible.

[Tiny]

I just thought of something that proves my point beyond any other argument I could have made. Zidane was a part of the group that did the ratings, and it wasn't made public and there was not a large council of people doing the ratings. The guy has collected the most broken rated players. Coincidence? Probably not, I still am bros with the guy, but you can see an obvious loophole/advantage to capping and doing ratings without a large public consent. Or maybe he just knows all????? who could say?

[zidane]

Uhhhhh pretty sure ratings were posted days before the draft lol. This isn't some big conspiracy. A few people in the dt chat looked at old ratings from last season then made changes if the majority agreed. We all were looking at the same ratings before the draft it wasn't some secret affair. There's also some crazy theory where sometimes a player plays better or worse than expected and their ratings look questionable in hindsight... but who knows

[Dierienow]

My idea..

Change the ratings to 7 stars (4 to 10*). Now you can have 3 wildcards, the other two must be 7* or below and 5* and below. This would solve the issue of inaccurate ratings somewhat, allow more people a fair shot to play and such. You could even have another rule where some of the non-wildcard players either can only play a certain amount of games, can only play non-consequtively, etc whatever rule would be best to encourage dynamic teams. Because arguably one of the worst side effects of the current system is that you never get to experiment and see "well maybe this player would do better here.." or ever get to see anything beyond perceptions and pre-conceived notions, because the captain doesn't want to take an unnecessary risk.

You could also say that because the skill level varies so widely across a small playerbase that it would be impossible to ever make a one-size-fits-all solution.. which is why I thought TSL could have been something good. Near the end it was capable of making good teams (pros vs pros, joes vs joes), it just lacked a bit of popularity. Another problem with that was people would have to sit out every so often but in hindsight it wasn't a huge deal.

[Zeebu]

Uhhhhh pretty sure ratings were posted days before the draft lol. This isn't some big conspiracy. A few people in the dt chat looked at old ratings from last season then made changes if the majority agreed. We all were looking at the same ratings before the draft it wasn't some secret affair. There's also some crazy theory where sometimes a player plays better or worse than expected and their ratings look questionable in hindsight... but who knows

i dont think its unfair or anything, i just think its a bit of a busted system. draft for skill and activity and then get ahold of the folks with broken ratings. its how this league has always been. i just think theres a better way to do it.

[Major Crisis]

i dont think its unfair or anything, i just think its a bit of a busted system. draft for skill and activity and then get ahold of the folks with broken ratings. its how this league has always been. i just think theres a better way to do it.

Like I mentioned before, this was done because Henry lacks in coordinating leagues. A proper coordinator would have gotten more people together and maybe even let them rate a list instead of going through the list together on a chat. It went this way, and yea, it had its busting ratings. I am sure zidane knows as well that the ratings and all werent done perfect, but then again it never will be.

I think we can even defend all the ratings who have been 'too low' for many people. For example Ro, ro wasnt that active before TWDT started and we all had a doubt if he was gonna be active. Last season he played (fall 2016) he disappeared midseason. How can we judge that he should maybe be a 9 after all? Babe Ruth shouldnt be a 7 in wb or jav. Yes, he has done decent on Power, but lets be real... He had to play with Ease, Vys, Tripin/Lockdown and an experienced 7* as Lews Therin. I doubt many 6s would have done much worse. The only thing that could be done is all experienced TW players like that move to the 7 spot, so we get the EG/DSB ppl at the 6* spot. But then we have a bunch on 7 who would never get to play anyway. There will always be questionable ratings or rating system.

[ogron]

1) Camel by Committee has proven to be the absolute worst ratings in multiple TWDT seasons. I've tried it before and it was unanimously considered awful.

a) Most people are bad judges of talent. There's very few truly skilled, active players who are capable of producing good ratings
b) Committees are bad partly because of a), but also because you run into huge consistency issues. People have different ideas of what constitutes a 6 or 7 star, so even if everyone was a good rater, it still produces bad ratings because they're all averaged together
c) Captains with votes intentionally lowball themselves and other players they plan to pick and that may be of value only to them

2) Variable ratings are a terrible idea, way too much work, punish captains for good picks, and would be rife with abuse (like we see in elim)

3) There's no point in making it truly 1-10 when there are only 3 tiers of star slots. You only need to differentiate between four classes of players. Even then, the 8-Star slot (that I created) is debatable. There should definitely be three tiers (6-Star, 7-Star, and Max), and maybe four tiers (6-Star, 7-Star, 8-Star, Max). Any more than that is too much. You could make a legitimate argument for eliminating the 8-Star slot and having three Max slots. I prefer having the 8-Star, but it's not an absolute necessity. Remember that before I took over TWDT in 2014, there was only one low-star slot, and in the playoffs you could play with 8 Max slots. Obviously increasing the low-star slots has been a boon with the decline in population, but there's an upper limit as to how much you limit participation from veterans.

Finals Thoughts

There is no magic bullet for ratings. The actual solution is having 1 veteran TWL player do the master ratings, while getting input from experts in all 3 leagues. That way the 1 person can uniformly apply the 6, 7, and 8 star ratings so they're consistent with each other, while also getting invaluable input from experts who make sure no one slipped through the cracks.

That methodology has unequivocally produced the best ratings and least complaining (there will always be some complaining and 1-2 misrated persons).

The problem wasn't the system this season. The issue was the people doing the ratings. It's supposed to be a huge undertaking that takes weeks and requires lots of hours, and given the sheer laziness on display by TWDT ops, that clearly didn't happen.

The list should be going through 10 iterations, you're supposed to be on a Google Docs sheet with an expert in each league poring over all 150-200 ratings with a fine tooth comb, looking over activity and TWD stats, checking previous TWDT and TWL performances, talking to the best players, etc.

IMHO, Major Crisis has proven to be the most competent contributor this season, and should be in charge next TWDT. He's run a successful TWDT in 2011, and did a great job all season with various tasks. He's a good enough judge of talent and administrator.

I doubt he'd do it with all the cancerous, power-hungry worms that have embedded themselves into staff, but it would benefit the league tremendously.