TWDT Season 28 Announcement

[LeeRomeno]

Lets talk logically about this.

If we go to 3 tiers, this makes the top of those tiers the most important and valuable players. Those people will get the most playing time and be picked first and rightfully so. With the system we are about to do, (using old system ratings for clarity) 7* 8.5* and 10*s will be the cream of the crop. Having 3 tiers won't change the fact that everyone knows who is better than everyone else and lumping 3 tiers into 1 will just hinder captains from making up star power differences. People will still get benched and playing time will stay the same, except teams will be even more heavily skewed. The larger tier system allows for more flex in lineups, for example, i was capping as a 9* before and able play more mid tier players, where 10*s had to play more lower players, but in the end made it pretty even. I will not cap as a 9* against 10*s, as I would be a top tier player in this new system and immediately be at a huge disadvantage.

First of all, the determination of who belongs to what tier will be based on player votes. VPs have been also based on player votes more or less.
Majority of responses I get here have common theme that actually everyone knows how good someone is and that is reflected in VPs. Well sorry to break your bubble, but its not the case. Success in pretty much all draft leagues has still been based on getting as much undervalued players on freq as you can. Violence has won many leagues not because he has selected the best players, but actually the ones whos VP is not reflecting their real skill.
On other side, there are teams who have failed miserably, because some key players are clearly not performing according to their VP.
The fact that there are underrated and overrated players means that it is not a perfect system and the enjoyment of an individual in the league and gametime is more down to what some people rated him.
Win or die didnt win last season because they had Racka, they won because they had 8.5 rated jurassic, 8 rated spawni, 7.5 rated dwop and 7 star rated beast. Arguable all of those players were misrated.
And saying we will fix the ratings for next season, will not actually fix them, because then some other players will be underrated or overrated. It continues every season. There are so many things that can affect players ability in league and value. Some people just dont care anymore. Best has been 10 star wb in years, he is probably capable of playing that, but he hasnt for many leagues, he was ranked 37th wb. So you pick best, you play him and that 10 vps seem wasted. Absurd switched computers and played with new reso and wasnt the player he was in previous season. You get my point.
So once again, before, the success and logic behind getting a good team was finding those underrated players. That will not change at all in new system, where u also try to find and pick those "who are best of their tier". Fundamentally there is not change.

And yes, people will definitely bench, but their chance of getting out of bench is far better then before as you just have to be better than the few other people on your team from same tier vs being just overrated and not fitting the VP gap.

As for your comment, you are what, 9.5* jav, if thats not top tier, what is?

[zidane]

edit: nvm done wasting my time in this thread

[HellzNo!]

I'm interested if anyone has some outside thoughts or ideas on improving the subjectivity of ratings, more importantly the misratings. I do think misratings in the lower-mid tier players has an extremely adverse effect on playtime. We do want to improve the match quality without forcing captains to shove a last round 6* in because of player(s) being misrated.

I might be in the minority here, but I feel like this is what makes the dynamic of DT work. You never know which captain is going to find the steal of the draft, or who is going to play above/below their rating.

There are absolutely tweaks to the rating system that need to be made, but I don’t agree overhauling the whole system is the way to go. I tend to agree with Tiny and Mythril, or on the side of logic I guess.

This tier system feels like a disaster waiting to happen…
I applaud the effort Lee, at least you’re trying to help keep the zone active and improve on the past product. I just feel like this might be the wrong direction.

[MHz]

I like Lee and I think he'll make a great league op. The problem with this idea is that it's almost inevitable for one team to become massively OP and essentially unbeatable from the outset of the season. A likely scenario that happens nearly every TWDT is when a 10* captain collects another 10* player in the early rounds. The synergistic and clutch value of this combo has always been neutralised by the * cost, but under the tier system this combo is worth the same as 10/9 or 9/9, which (as Mythril says) bakes in misrating.

FWIW put me in the uncapped/TW Cup camp.

[Turban]

My beef with the current rating system is that almost no one is correctly rated, and even when they are players can still have a huge "rating swing" depending on who they are playing with.

Sure, it is ultimately up to captains to identify such bargains to build a strong and synergistic team, but at the same time you are baiting some weaker captains to pick high value players who only work with certain play styles.

I suppose best option would be to simply have an uncapped draft tournament or alternatively a hybrid system with tiers and ratings where last two spots of your lineup can be at maximum 14.5-stars while rest is uncapped.

[Cyclone]

Please sign me up for TWDT.

6/6/10 LOL! Really just a 6/6/6 Though.

Thank you TW for hosting this tremendous event.

I look forward to the epic battles and good community media.

GO Canucks GO!

=)


Yours truly,

+Cyclone.

[LeeRomeno]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:
Think our goal is to have a great season, there are few things blocking it, so here are the updates:

1) We will skip the tier logic for this season, but will have some mid-season short tourney testing the idea how it would work.

Still think the VPs are broken, but will try to get them as good as they can be, so I am looking for volunteers who would help rating all the players once league start is closer. I am looking for around top 10 pilots. I will send personal anonymous google sheet and hope you will respond with your ratings on those players. Once everyone has filled them, i will make 1 giant sheet, remove best and worst rating and then take average and then adjust with final jury taking also MMR ratings into consideration for players who are sort of between ratings.
Hope everyone so passionate in arguing the tier system can voluteer helping with ratings.

2) We will have draft league in 2 parts. Duelling (WB and JAV) with one set of caps and Base with another set of caps. Main reasoning for this: with 1 round main season, i would like to have as many squads as possible (to give as many players possibility to play), duelling squads need less people for that. Usually draft league team number is automatically adjusted for base, this way we can have more squads for duelling and still have big enough teams for base to suffer from no-shows.

3) Will take a vote among captains before league to decide if we continue with current setup (jav/wb before base) or they are willing to test bringing base earlier and why not also switching wb/jav order, so that wb will be last. For me I have no preferences, but this could increase the number of euro basers taking part and perhaps some would return as well.

Will also take a look at VP limits after more people have signed up and see if having larger VP gap on freq makes sense. After remapping VPs


Last but not least, if signups will not really improve soon, we may need to reschedule the draft and start week or 2 later, but will take that call once time is closer.

[Hulk]

Go back to humid rules. You are making this more difficult than it has to be lol..

Also, there are not enough terrs in zone to field 8 teams or whatever in base.

[LeeRomeno]

Go back to humid rules. You are making this more difficult than it has to be lol..

Also, there are not enough terrs in zone to field 8 teams or whatever in base.

Dont think we will have 8 teams, more likely 6.

[Spezza]

The goal seems to be to get the most ppl playing with the most even games, easiest solution is to do twcup with more teams. But when drafts are combined it becomes a bit risky because we don't have many players.

This means that if a cap drafts someone for their wb - this player also has a 10star Jav rating which may require benching a high rated Jav it also may cause other teams to not reach the cap.

This is part of what twdt is about - having a good capo to create lines - however if you're wanting the most idealistic world u would have to create 3 separate drafts 🤢. the star cap would be a 2ndary system to prevent a super team.

I'm not advocating for 3 separate drafts as I assume it is a ton of work. But I think the reason twcup was successful at creating close games was because of separate drafts with semi-even caps.

Even though long leagues can be annoying there does need to be a balance in payoff for the ppl running/volunteering the league so that their hard work doesn't need to be repeated every 6 weeks.

[Tiny]

Also, there are not enough terrs in zone to field 8 teams or whatever in base.

Fuck you hulk

[Tiny]

Lee, have you been leaving messages for everyone and contacting everyone in game? I think we get more signups this way, as we have never relied on forums and bot signups. Maybe recruit a couple people to find more players. If someone finally gives me forum access on here (3 years later), I can add signups as I talk to people as well.

List of people good at recruiting players...Calling all former active OPS for help! (missing some)..
Dwopple
Mythril
Ogron
Racka

[Rab]

The description of this forum section should be updated to something that doesn't contain anything which changes between seasons:
"The pro-am draft league with a star cap. Starts Sunday, June 12th."

[LeeRomeno]

Twdt bot is also ready: Please pm the TWDBot in ?go twdt with !signup so we can start to get an idea on players.

[beam]

can you explain your reasoning for splitting base from dueling? I assume playoffs for dueling leagues will be based on individual records not combined wb/jav records now since base is separate? I apologize if these questions have been answered already