Bowling For Columbine

[bloodzombie]

Sarien, if Heston is so innocent, why was he still (no matter what grief he showed) encouraging everyone to own a gun and proudly saying about how many loaded guns he keeps in his house. And when question by Moore, he was beaten and had to waddle away and stop the interview.

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but if I remember right, michael moore basically forced his way into heston's house and then refused to leave. Heston may be a nut, but he's also fairly intelligent and can hold up his end in a fair debate, but it's not a fair debate when the guy holding the camera will take anything you say and edit the shit out of it to make you look bad.

In my political views, I lean towards the left, and I enjoy michael moore's movies, but watching them as a way to get information and then basing your political views on them is just as bad as the conservatives that watch fox news for their information. If you actually care about the politics and you're watching michael moore for more than just entertainment, do your own research after you watch the movie.

[duel pasta]

I just recently watched this movie (yah I'm behind on the times) and I'd like to know what you guys think about this issue (for those of u that have seen it).

For those of you that haven't the issue that is brought up is simple, and the following facts are found out throughout the documentary:
Why is it that America has the highest death rate from guns than any other country?

Fact: America has over 11 thousand deaths a year from guns, the next closest country is Britain I believe with a about 250.

Q: Is it the amount of guns?
A: Canada has more guns per capita than the United States. Certainly it's not because of this

Q: Is it America's bloody history?
A: I'm sure you can name 3 countries just in Europe that have a bloodier history than America.

Q: Is it because of the large minorities?
A: When I visit other countries I see cities full of blacks, and asians. Hell minorities make up 15% of Canada's population.

My thoughts: I think it's based on America's fear aproach media. I remember traveling up to Canada for a couple of weeks and watching their almost FRIENDLY media. Our newscasters look like monsters compared to the rest of the world.

I want this to be semi-constructive. I know a lot of you hate America out there, but don't give stupid shit head answers like "America is dumb, therefore they kill each other." Be intelligent.

I saw this stupid video at school. to be honest I think I fell a sleep during the movie... anyway, that school with those 2 guys that just so... nazi... stupid nazi's 2 guys shooting at the whole school with some uzi's you can buy in a shop... just sick

[wadi]

Ugg, I want to burn this thread to the ground. Conservative lemmings are bad enough, but liberal lemmings prove you don't have to be smart to be progressive.

Awesome, these movies and the speaking circuit that follows are Moore's pay day, so the more people that get a big rise, positive or negative, out of his movies, the more money he stands to earn. Okay, okay, so some of you won't buy the money argument, so lets go another route. He _loves_ the spot light, I mean take a look at the Oscars. Take a look at what we're doing here, if Moore got a printout of this thread, you know there'd be cum stains all over it as soon as his got 2 minutes of alone time. His ego is huge, he loves being a prick, and he's really only questionably less insulting to your intelligence than Rush Limbaugh.

Anduril, where did you get a half baked number like "80% of American adults have guns."?

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I was going to ask the same question.

As "ignorant" as the "average American" that you Canadians/Euros describe may be, it doesn't sound like you guys are doing too much better. I consider myself to be an average American adult male, and not only do I not own a gun, but I also don't pretend to know how your country's populace operates.

[wadi]

Conc, my sources tell me 80% of Belgians eat waffles every day, but they don't use syrup. How fucked up is that?

[Sarien]

I don't think Moore is less insulting than Limbaugh.. I think they're both equally insulting, it's just that Moore tries to be more sneaky about it. Limbaugh is a loud mouthed blowhard that will spit his bullshit views in your face, Moore is a loud mouthed blowhard that will say "But what about the children?" and then blather on about his bullshit views. Politically I'm all over the board, because rather than thinking of the notion of left.. right.. conservative.. liberal.. I try to think in terms more along the lines of right and wrong. My friends that are conservative, say that I'm a conservative with some ugly liberal leanings on rights and some other shit. My friends that are liberal say that I'm a liberal that likes the right to own guns and have some ugly conservative leanings on other shit. It's ridiculous and I tell them all that they're pretty much full of crap. I'm just me, and I believe the things I believe.. without needing some label.

Simply put, I try to treat people on the same level as I'd want to be treated, think of them as being my direct equal, but being human, I have many foibles.

[PaulOakenfold]

You're all running around in ciricles telling how much you hate Moore, but you know what, this wasn't the thread for it. If you don't think the facts that he presented were in fact real, then just post that. If you believe you have an idea as to why America is so fucked up when it comes to gun violence, you may point that out. If I wanted you to talk about how much the movie sucks, or how much Moore sucks/rocks/is fat, or how much you hate Liberals, then I'd create this in Trash Thread. Next time I try to strike up a conversation, I'll do so in Trash Talk I suppose.

[Vykromond]

If someone would like to defend Moore's film against that link I posted, I would love that. Since no one has (and it essentially proves Bowling for Columbine to signify nothing much at all), I can only agree with Wadi. I'm about as far left as it is reasonably possible to go, but the last thing liberals need is Moore to make their case. He's everything conservatives hate about liberals (even though, in Stupid White Men, he lambasts other liberals for the same reason)- and he's full of it, too!

The 80% of Americans owning guns is a flat-out lie. I cite "Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms," a report from the Department of Justice filed in 1997, available here. And I quote:

"o In 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million

firearms, 65 million of which were handguns.

Although there were enough guns to have provided

every U.S. adult with one, only 25 percent of

adults actually owned firearms; 74 percent of gun

owners possessed two or more.



o The proportion of American households that keep

firearms appears to be declining."

EDIT: Changed a misleading underline to bold.

[bloodzombie]

You're all running around in ciricles telling how much you hate Moore, but you know what, this wasn't the thread for it. If you don't think the facts that he presented were in fact real, then just post that. If you believe you have an idea as to why America is so fucked up when it comes to gun violence, you may point that out. If I wanted you to talk about how much the movie sucks, or how much Moore sucks/rocks/is fat, or how much you hate Liberals, then I'd create this in Trash Thread. Next time I try to strike up a conversation, I'll do so in Trash Talk I suppose.

I like moore and I liked this movie, I just think that he is the political version of rock and roll. Just like that one kid who killed himself to Ozzy's Suicide Solution, so might our children be inclined to leap into the liberal abyss without realizing that this moore fella is leading them down a crooked path.


forget that other part. I'm just saying that this is dangerous filmmaking because kids who can't think for themselves see a smart guy like Moore "proving" what these rebellious kids already think that they know and they jump in line like lemmings.

[Awesome]

It's been awhile since I've seen it, but if I remember right, michael moore basically forced his way into heston's house and then refused to leave. Heston may be a nut, but he's also fairly intelligent and can hold up his end in a fair debate, but it's not a fair debate when the guy holding the camera will take anything you say and edit the shit out of it to make you look bad.

He didn't force his way into the house. He went up the the intercom at the front gate and asked for an interview, Heston said come back tomorrow morning and he'd give him an interview. Moore came back and Heston lead him to this interview room by the pool in one of the wings of his house. Perhaps it was edited, i don't know, but it didn't seem like it. One question led naturally to the next where Heston then got cornered and lost the debate, at which time he stood up and left the room.

[bloodzombie]

He didn't force his way into the house. He went up the the intercom at the front gate and asked for an interview, Heston said come back tomorrow morning and he'd give him an interview. Moore came back and Heston lead him to this interview room by the pool in one of the wings of his house. Perhaps it was edited, i don't know, but it didn't seem like it. One question led naturally to the next where Heston then got cornered and lost the debate, at which time he stood up and left the room.

I guess I'd have to see it again.

[Bob (SRB)]

heh oh my. Some people are just too stupid. You are defending the fact that Michael didn't put together all the pieces of those speeches in order. Fair enough, but you fail to realize that Charleton Heston is AN INSANE RIGHT WING GUN LOVING ASSHOLE. Even if Moore mislead the viewer with the speeches, his point is still proven about Heston. Jesus, some people just argue for political correctness' sake, they don't seem to care that Heston is a crazy gun-nut.

Sarien I made that post so harsh because i was tired of all the moronic posts made by people with their heads too far up their own ass to understand so i just put it in more harsh and insulting terms. I don't really think you are a douche, it was for the sake of the post.

And for whoever tried to do the same thing as sarien with the changing words around. Well I guess he was too stupid to understand the post I made right before talking about rearranging WHOLE SENTENCES, not single words.

[Puppet Master]

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/trailer_sm.html

[wadi]

Sarien I made that post so harsh because i was tired of all the moronic posts made by people with their heads too far up their own ass to understand so i just put it in more harsh and insulting terms. I don't really think you are a douche, it was for the sake of the post.

So somehow you're better because your head is up Moore's ass?

[Pearl Jam]

stupid bob is tired of people being stupid

so clam the fuck up