The Hedonistic Imperative Manifesto

[Sarien]

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, anyone?

I see your movie and raise you Star Trek V, and Casablanca.

The more Tone goes on about how pain isn't a part of love, and serves no good function, the more he illustrates he's clueless about said things. Love isn't just about celebrating the high points, it's also about helping each other through the lows.

If anybody else hasn't caught on to it by now, all his nanojunk no-pain crap he's ever posted, is all about curing "depressives" and other mentally disturbed people. Makes you wonder why he focuses on that so much.

A person's demons and pain helps define them in one way as an individual. We're all bags of different experiences going through life as best we can. We learn in lots of ways. Painful experiences included.

[Kontrolz]

Well first of all it seems that you have come to believe in a lot of things that aren't yet considered even a theory (for scientific definition of the word) tone. If we're to look at one thing you said, "life evolved around pain", it evolved around pleasure too (specifically around pleasure), if you had ever had sex you'd know what I'm talking about, that feeling is what drives organisms and all life to reproduce and carry on.

WHen we get to zero suffering it will be the ultimate perfection. life's meaning and purpose will be 100% fulfilled. there will be nothing left to strive after. there will simply be people's person goals and projects which they are highly motivated and immensely enjoy every moment working on them and every moment doing any and everything else in their lives, their entire lives. heaven on earth.

I'll admit that I didn't click the link, and this might be covered in it but I just don't care enough to read it all and I would probably end up still stating this anyway.

If there is nothing left to strive after why would one even get up? Or learn to talk, or walk, or use the physical body at all? If we acheived "zero suffering" you're correct, there would be NO motivation for ANYTHING. People wouldn't have personal goals, what for, they are already "100% fufilled", no need to do anything other than continue to live which only requires the basics of survival (eating, sleeping, excercise) and I doubt there would even be motivation for those basic functions. The reason why heaven is not on earth is because heaven couldn't be on earth, heaven (according to religious people) exists when you die, when you no longer have to maintain a physical form and peform life functions to carry on the life cycle of this planet.

[Tone]

I'll admit that I didn't click the link, and this might be covered in it but I just don't care enough to read it all and I would probably end up still stating this anyway.

If there is nothing left to strive after why would one even get up? Or learn to talk, or walk, or use the physical body at all? If we acheived "zero suffering" you're correct, there would be NO motivation for ANYTHING. People wouldn't have personal goals, what for, they are already "100% fufilled", no need to do anything other than continue to live which only requires the basics of survival (eating, sleeping, excercise) and I doubt there would even be motivation for those basic functions.

if i may pull a paste job for this one rather than paraphrase since i agree 100% and could not say it any better:

Section 4.12 "Without suffering, there can be no personal development; unearned happiness leads to stasis."

http://www.hedweb.com/hedethic/hedon4.htm#sad

[Liquid Blue]

[Tone]

the human race and all life it will also alter, is better off dead than to not attempt full and complete abolitionism and be successful.

[project dragon]

hahhhaaha avril lavigne!~

[Cops]

They still physically have the ability to feel pain and pleasure. You want to eliminate pain entirely, removing the emotion and feeling. There's a difference between masking a feeling and eliminating it. Eliminating it would mean all we could feel is pleasure, not that we would be happy all the time. Masking it would mean we'd be high or drugged off our asses 24/7. Neither to me seems to be human or better then feeling pain. I think we can only determined pleaseure by the experince of pain and discomfort, or at least have it be unique and enjoyable enough to be happy.


It's human to feel pain and to strive for the better but without knowing both; whatever you want to throw together in a lab wouldn't quilify as human to me.



Sorry about that, I keep switching computers and Cops never logs out...

If anyone is interested in these subjects I'd suggest picking up 1984 or Brave New World they're amazing books to read.

[Cops]

edit this is actually kolar, wait i didn't logout yet wait i can't look at the top right of my screen.

thanks for keeping my post count up.

cheers, ryan.

[Blanke]

My hero

Also, shouldn't we be concentrating on more immediate problems, like poverty?

[Tone]

Sappy human emotion is very 'low and negative'. the highest state is pure fearless and clear-headed euphoria. There will be no need to use pain, fear, confusion and the like to grow and develop as a person if they can simply be banished. the goal is already met.

Psudeo-Wisdom is reinforced by mindstate. A few dozen micrograms of a particular hallucinogenic chemical could obliterate ones entire perception and mindset and replace it with a different sort of one. Others like eupohrants give a crude glimpses into the elimination of pain, fear, apathy. In theory the same could be done permanently through future biotechnology, only perfected rather than the fixed and crude effects and side effects of a particular molecue.

Tone

[Arikel]

Yeah! So everyone would be a crack head with their daily dozes of chems!?
You are crazy! I do mean it!

[Ashlee]

That was really hot but Avril sort of ruined it

[Fluffz]

someone name the porn scene already so i can dl it (for my friend, cause i dont watch porn at all)

[Adman]

[PH]