Santa Claus == Saint Nicholas

[T3l Ca7]

Are they the same person?

[Fluffz]

thats not so clear. is wasnt sure either, since we celebrate the Sankt Nikolaus on the 6th of December and have the Christkind bringing us presents on the 24th.

however, Nikolaus had a servant called Knecht Ruprecht a fur wearing bad guy who gave presents to the nice kids and took away the bad ones in his bag he was also called Pelznickel and early Santa Claus pictures show a fur covered guy.

this guy got so popular, he got his own day to celebrate him at. its the 5th of December. but 3 days to get presents where to much obviously, so Pelznickel was degraded again to help the Christkind (Christ child) bring out presents on the 24.12. while on the 5.12. the guy taking away bad children and being nice to good children was altered to be a demon like being we call Krampus. so there was a nice guy helping the child Christ and a bad guy which gave a better story for the kids i guess.

while the tradition of the christkind didnt make it over the pond Nikolaus and Knecht Ruprecht aka Pelznickel got merged and bring presents on the 23.12.
while hanging socks at the chimney is clearly a Sankt Nikolaus Tradition the legend of Santa Claus is actually based on the servant of Nikolaus

[Nycle]

Yep, you should thank the Dutch for your yearly presents!

Santa is a variant of a European folk tale based on the historical figure Saint Nicholas, a bishop from the region that is now present-day Turkey, who gave presents to the poor. This inspired the mythical figure of Sinterklaas, the subject of a major celebration in the Netherlands and Belgium, Germany (where his alleged date of death, December 6, is celebrated the evening before on December 5), which in turn inspired both the myth and the name of Santa Claus (actually a mispronunciation of the Dutch word "Sinterklaas" by the English settlers of New Amsterdam (later renamed New York)).

Basically, the Dutch brought their tradition of Sinterklaas with them to their colony in the USA (New Amsterdam, later New York), where the English just turned him into Santa Claus, which was later commercially exploited by the Coca Cola Company that made him the thing he is today.

[Galleleo]

so basicly yes, they are the same person.

[Ice Weasel]

Are they the same person?

Ahhhh, it's the "Infamous" T3l Ca7... I have a question for you...
I've seem to been missing out, but with everyone calling you a slut/ho, whatever and posting you in their sigs, what am I missing out? Are you cute or ugly? I need to be filled in on what's going on damnit!
How did you gain sooooo much popularity? Don't know though, seems like quite the majority of SubSpacers seem to be quite annoyed by you...

[Fluffz]

get your traditions right, santa doesnt creep down chimeys and it wasnt coca-cola who created a fat white bearded man.

the image of santa claus was created by thomas nast (i had to look this up of course) who was originally from germany, from the Pfalz, a place where Pelznickel aka Belsnickle was famous. Pelznickel means (Pelz=Fur + Nickel=Nickolaus) Fur Nicholas. But this guy is usually not Saint Nicholas himself but one of its helpers (which were murders the Saint Nicholas rescued) their appereal differs from place to place. aoso, after the reformation, when Nicholas helpers, however u call them, were moved from the 5.12. to the 24.12. to help the child christ theygot mixed with another tradition of a guy comming down chimneys, read the 2nd post.

When Nast published a series of drawings of Santa Claus for Harper's Weekly each year from 1863 (in the midst of the Civil War) to 1866, he helped create the kinder, more fatherly, plumper Santa we know today. His drawings show influences of the bearded, fur-cloaked, pipe-smoking Pelznickel of Nast's Palatinate homeland. Later color illustrations by Nast are even closer to today's Santa Claus image, showing him as a toy maker.


the first image being Nast´s and the second shows Saint Nicholas (rightmost) and Pelznickel (left to him)

The figure of Santa Claus first begins to show up among the Pennsylvania Dutch in the mid 1820s in the form of Kris Kringle, or as he was also known, Belsnickle [...] Belsnickle would travel the Pennsylvania countryside ringing his bell looking for good children to give out his small gifts of cakes and nuts to. If Belsnickle came across a child who had not been behaving in the past year, he would warn the child to be good or else he might give them a smack with his rod.

[Fluffz]

Kris Krinkle came from the word Christkind (Child Christ) this shows how much traditions got mixed up there because the Christkind is traditionally 3 legged, well look below.


as for the ideology behing santa claus, read the following:
When the Dutch came to America and established the colony of New Amsterdam, their children enjoyed the traditional 'visit of Saint Nicholas' on December 5, for the Dutch had kept this ancient Catholic custom even after the Reformation. Later, when England took over the colony and it became New York, the kindly figure of Sinter Klaas (pronounced like Santa Claus) soon aroused among the English children the desire of having such a heavenly visitor come to their homes, too.

The English settlers were glad and willing to comply with the anxious wish of their children. However, the figure of a Catholic saint and bishop was not acceptable in their eyes, especially since many of them were Presbyterians, to whom a bishop was repugnant. In addition, they did not celebrate the feast of saints according to the ancient Catholic calendar.

The dilemma was solved by transferring the visit of the mysterious man whom the Dutch called Santa Claus from December 5 to Christmas, and by introducing a radical change in the figure itself. It was not merely a 'disguise' but the ancient saint was completely replaced by an entirely different character. Behind the name Santa Claus[or better the whole bunch of creatures Saint Nicholas was surrounded, who were already helping the christkind on the 24.12. in some parts of europe after the reformation] actually stands the figure of the pagan Germanic god Thor (after whom Thursday is named). Some details about Thor from ancient German mythology will show the origin of the modern Santa-Claus tale:

Thor was the god of the peasants and the common people. He was represented as an elderly man, jovial and friendly, of heavy build, with a long white beard, His element was the fire, his color red. The rumble and roar of thunder were said to be caused by the rolling of his chariot, for he alone among the gods never rode on horseback but drove in a chariot drawn by two white goats (called Cracker and Gnasher). He was fighting the giants of ice and snow, and thus became the Yule-god. He was said to live in the 'Northland' where he had his palace among icebergs. By our pagan forefathers he was considered as the cheerful and friendly god, never harming the humans but, rather, helping and protecting them. The fireplace in every home was especially sacred to him, and he was said to come down through the chimney into his element, the fire.

also, Saint Nicholas was a Bishop, a saint, noone who creeps down chimneys, thats what his companion aka Knecht Ruprecht, Pelznickel, Thor?,... does. in Austria, when Sankt Nickolaus comes it is a priest, often with a bible, out of which he reads. he rarely carries a bag and has a long staff and kids are afraid of him. he is no laughing fat guy. you had to learn a few lines by heart and if you were nice he gave you some little presents. Knecht Ruprecht/Rupert was carrying the bag of presents and the heavy staff while they were walking.

look how dirty he is, i doubt its supposed to be a black person.

[Fluffz]

there, the Sankt nikolaus cliche vs the Santa Claus one

[Theif of Time]

Are they the same person?

No. It cannot be simplified in such a way.
I think that the concept of Santa Claus is derived from actions of St Nick, tho.

[Galleleo]

Fluffz, you basicly said the same thing as Nycle.. Santa Claus comes from Sinterklaas.

[DoTheFandango]

TelCat != Smart

[Bioture]

no shit.

dothefandango intelligence pts -4

[DoTheFandango]

You are assuming I had them to begin with!

I was just mocking her stupid title.