Human Cloning

[Troll King]

Re: ok last post today.

Originally posted by Material Girl
I do agree with Troll King though on the 'soul' thing. How could a clone have spirit? Is it really just in the brain? That is another thing cloning might prove..... or say that it does...

You cannot possibly be agreeing with me because you clearly have missed my point.

[Epinephrine]

Please note that clones are not exact replicas of a person. Although genetically similar, such things as environment and age differences will make a different person. Years of research (and common sense if you know any) on monozygotic twins (aka identical twins) have shown that even in genetically identical people who are of the same age, they are fundamentially different people.

Furthermore the original question while important leaves out some things. He mentions cloning as a whole. I personally don't believe that cloning as a whole should be banned both ethically and practically. There is a large difference between cloning to make a baby and cloning stem cells to make replacement organs and so on. Stem cell cloning research is one of the newest things in medical science which promises breakthroughs in future medical therapies. Unlike cloning for babies, the intent is never to create an embryo, but in fact to use these stem cells (which can be thought of as "proto-cells", cells which have not yet differentiated into specialized functions) is for slightly less scary purposes.

Currently in the United States, there is ban at least on federal money to be spent on all cloning research and I believe that this is a huge mistakes. The large benefits to medical science which stem cell research promises is too large to give up. Private companies can still do it, but there is little immediate payoff in such research.

Morally I believe that cloning for the purposes of stem cell research is perfectly okay. Furthermore in terms of practicality, because of the US ban on such research and elsewhere in the Western World, such research is actually becoming state of the art in China. The basic fact is, if you don't do it, someone else will and you will lose out on any power you have to control the flow of the technology.

How about cloning for actual people then? There are many ramifications for this. One can easily imagine a futuristic dystopia where an evil organization secretly clones the children of influential people as babies only to have them be replaced once they finally enter the ranks of power by their own clones. While this is far-fetched, the more immediate questions which come to most people's minds is, is this right?

I will point to the fact that firstly, many different organisms in nature reproduce by clonining.

Secondly, while it can be argued that cloning allows people who generally might not be able to have children have children and as such messes up natural evolution, one can easily point to medicine and such drugs as insulin which have already screwed up natural selection and society has not had a problem with that.

Thirdly, people will say that it's freaky to have an exact replica of oneself. Well I've already established from my introduction that there is no way that your clone will be exactly you. Identical twins aren't purely identical, and so your clone won't be identically you as well.

Forthly, people will say that crazy parents will want to use cloning to replace a "dead child" and this is freaky. Again I say this won't be the same child. Also as long as the child is dearly loved I don't see a problem with it.

Finally there is the issue of abuse. What if this power gets abused? What if people misuse the good intentions that cloning might give for evil. This is hard to answer, but look at it this way. Most new technologies out there can be misused for evil intentions. Gunpowder was invented by the Chinese to make fireworks, and look what happened to it. Einstein figured out E=mc^2 as pure physics research and it led to the production of the nuclear bomb. The fact is, we cannot stop and sit idly by just because of the fact something may be used for evil if it can be used to do a lot of good.

But finally there are unanswerable questions. What if someone decides to clone someone without their permission? Do we have a right to have clones of famous people because we think it's funny? Should society be cloning it's best and brightest for the future (imagine an institute of einsteins figuring out physics for all of us till the end of time)? Who decides what is right and what is wrong to clone? Should we be opening up this can of worms even though there are benefits but also many possible opportunities for abuse?

These are important questions that society must answer. I don't believe that we should be scared as a society that because there will be potential problems that we should just ban it and go away. Someone somewhere will eventually figure out the technology, whether it be in China or some crazy corporation working outside of the law. I think that society should not pretend that this will just go away by signing some laws, but actively engage in the debate of these very important questions and that we should figure out for ourselves what to do.

-Epi

[Trent Lott]

Originally posted by Disliked
You wouldn't know which one was yours, there would be a lot of fighting within the female race, many many men wouldn't get a partner because they'd all be after the same type of bloke and finally after few generations most would be different so by the time everyone would get them, not everyone would have the same.

You must be gay if you're concerned with which Denise Richards is "yours." Or you might be retarded if you do not understand that all women would look like her...so it would not make an ounce of difference which one you were boinking. Retarded fag.

[Superted]

Originally posted by Trent Lott
You must be gay if you're concerned with which Denise Richards is "yours." Or you might be retarded if you do not understand that all women would look like her...so it would not make an ounce of difference which one you were boinking. Retarded fag.

I'm talking about your one cheating on you, daft cunt.

[Trent Lott]

WHY DOES THAT MATTER IF ALL WOMEN LOOK LIKE DENISE RICHARDS???

[Kolar]

one you would have a lot more deformed clones than you would normal people.

[TelC@t]

Why do you want to replace all the female on earth by 1 person? Won't it be boring to have sex with only 1 person day after day for 40 years? Personly I think it would be boring if there is only 1 type of guys on the face of earth, even if they are all duplicates the hottest man alive in the whole universe.

This does not mean I won't be faithful to my life partner - it only means I would like try every thing for a bit before I commit myself.

[Bioture]

Originally posted by TelC@t
Why do you want to replace all the female on earth by 1 person? Won't it be boring to have sex with only 1 person day after day for 40 years? Personly I think it would be boring if there is only 1 type of guys on the face of earth, even if they are all duplicates the hottest man alive in the whole universe.

This does not mean I won't be faithful to my life partner - it only means I would like try every thing for a bit before I commit myself.

damn right tel. i know you didn't enjoy the cyber we had yesterday, but whaddya want? its boring to type "moans" and "unf" all the time.

[Verthanthi]

Originally posted by Epinephrine
I think that society should not pretend that this will just go away by signing some laws, but actively engage in the debate of these very important questions and that we should figure out for ourselves what to do.

-Epi

I may be mistaken, but I beleive there are a number of ethics comittees not attached to the government.

[TelC@t]

Re: ok last post today.

Originally posted by Material Girl
Yea, the kewl thing about cloning is that it will prove that we are a direct product of our environment, and not our genes. The bad thing is that it's pretty hard to get 100% accuracy in a manipulated situation. I do agree with Troll King though on the 'soul' thing. How could a clone have spirit? Is it really just in the brain? That is another thing cloning might prove..... or say that it does...

MG, you don't ever play TW any more, do you?


--------------------------------------------
Anyways, back to the topic:

To me, genes are like the hardware of the computer, enviornment is like the software for the computer. If you install different softwares on two identical hardwares, you will can expect different performances. But if you install the same software on two completely different set of harwares - they might function similarly, or they might not.

Similarly our genes are like the set of rules that tell our body how to react to a set of enviornmental conditions. Our body is the product of the two.

LOL, what are souls? Aren't they just the reflection of our brain activities?

[TelC@t]

Originally posted by Bioture
damn right tel. i know you didn't enjoy the cyber we had yesterday, but whaddya want? its boring to type "moans" and "unf" all the time.

Yeah, I would enjoy it much more if we didn't do it on the squad chat with half of the squad listening and interrupting.

[ÆNIMA]

Originally posted by Bioture
I wish i could give you a straight answer, but unfortunately this topic depends on your situation. Firstly, I agree with the catholic church that cloning defies the will of god and its against nature and there will be severe consequences and so on and so forth. But then, would the mother who has a dying child care about these ethics if her child can be saved by cloning?

cloning has its outrageous benefits and its outrageous consequences. either way i'm sure it wont be as entertaining as watching The Sixth Day.

-bio

Let me say this, if the Catholic Church's God is all powerful and can control anything he wants....then how can a mere mortal, or human even defy his will?

Either God doesn't exist and you're not defying anyone's will except for those who believe in him, or God is allowing us to go through with cloning.

Keep in mind..if God didn't want us to do something...why would he give us the technology and ingenuity to do it...or even think of it in the first place?


I say go ahead with cloning, and any stem cell research.

EDIT: "The 6th Day" was an awful movie.

[Latrine]

-NT-

[Superted]

Originally posted by Trent Lott
WHY DOES THAT MATTER IF ALL WOMEN LOOK LIKE DENISE RICHARDS???[/SIZE]

look no, being yes.

(You don't need to increase your font size, I can read.)

[Material Girl]

dallas is a guy i know;he called memphis on his cell phone

Originally posted by Troll King
You cannot possibly be agreeing with me because you clearly have missed my point.

Uhm, k.... I guess you are asking how we are going to determine if they[cloned humans] have souls? And I must say, although I strive for that 'genius' style, in no way am I able to answer this question. How we will determine if clones of natural born people have souls. The 'paramatma' thing.... Well hmmm lets see, most of us already know that body is temporary... I'd have to say mind is too... but that one thing that transcends our being after life as we know it must be called the soul.... it could be a product of our two parents' souls combined.... but more likely it is one seperate thing entirely... Either way, it's something big...

I wonder what are your opinions on this matter TK....

I wonder what happened to the chocolate eggs I left here last night.....