Discussion about gun laws.

[thesearcher]

The time to talk about gun control is not when it's an emotional debate.

The time to talk about something that is broken is when, well, its proven yet again its broken. If the time to discuss gun control is not when a lunatic has just killed over 30 people because of how easily it is to get a firearm in the U.S, when is the best time?

[SEAL]

To make guns illegal at this time we live in would allow the criminal element the upper hand. How many gun crimes on average are committed by registered legal gun owners? Lets leave out the VT gunman.

How is unfortually the truth yeah; the situation to handle.

However, the long term issue is more important. Im not sure, since my knowledge of guns is very limited, but i assume firearms were legal in europe (or anywhere else where they are illigal) too at some time in history. It is defiatly interesting how that was handled and how to learn from that process?

[Squeezer]

It's your culture. Live with it.

No.

[Arikel]

About this topic some of the defenders of the actual law about civilian armament point out that it is one of the oldest american traditions to have a gun in your home, or having the right to have one! The idea i defend is that tradition should never serve as a reason for not to change anything as it is bound to limit our choices and foiling any chances of improvement... if we were not to change anything because of traditions we would still be throwing people to the lions because it was an old tradition in the roman empire...
Anyway something probably more serious then that has to do with the moral well fare of the American people, in Canada for example i heard the gun law is somewhat similar to the american one but they have much less incidents like the one in VA Tech or Columbine.
Anyway if everyone agrees with the fact that having such a laissez faire policy on civilian armament makes it easier for someone not in it's right mind to start shooting everyone why don't make it more dificult to acquire a weapon. Making armed civilians have to be checked by a psychologist and having a few tests would prove effective on reducing this incidents i bet.

[404 Not Found]

Anyway if everyone agrees with the fact that having such a laissez faire policy on civilian armament makes it easier for someone not in it's right mind to start shooting everyone why don't make it more dificult to acquire a weapon. Making armed civilians have to be checked by a psychologist and having a few tests would prove effective on reducing this incidents i bet.

Each individual State has its own gun laws in regards to obtaining to being licensed to carry in the U.S.

The State of NJ does not allow one to carry or transport into NJ from neigboring States. The penalties are enormous!

The problem again in my opinion deals with those that are able to obtain guns illegally. When the criminal element has the ability to obtain such weapons, the trickle down from this effects the everyday law abiding individuals. The Police never get out of the patrol cars, except for free coffee at Dunkin Doughnuts and 7/11. There are less police on the streets as it is since this War in Iraq, due to so many on the force are also National Guard or are Reservists serving lengthy calls of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We hear of something in states called "Homeland Security", meanwhile if you look back to 2004, President Bush & his budget proposals cut federal aid to local law enforcement by 30 percent!

People are not going to leave the responsibilty of keeping the streets, neighborhoods, business' & homes of the nation in the hands of just the Police. People will protect themselves legally by obtaining licenses to protect themselves and their interests.

The U.S. has had 7 years of national security negelect by the hands of the Federal Government; now will not be a time to address such gun laws, as it will never get to see the day of light with how teh Federal level is run today.

It will be in the hands of each individual State and their elected officials to determine and enforce gun laws, be it a change or remain status quo

[Arikel]

So this is all part of a chain of events of bigger proportion... well i dunno if the analisys you made is 100% accurate but it seems to be me it might be part of the problem. Point is having civilians taking charge of their own security instead of someone who receives training for doing it does not seem to be a good measure. What also seems to be pointed out by some experts is the moral well fare of most americans wich unfortunatelly, and not necessarilly by their fault alone, regard shooting someone in self defense "and sometimes self defense has a very broad definition" as something that is acceptable and should be done, most of the time their lifes are not even at stake although i will not argue if having a shotgun under the table on a pawnshop has saved or killed more people... even if indirectly! It's not just a gun law problem that's for sure.

[Spider]

No offense guys

America's ideological obsession with firearms is totally baffling to me. I will never understand it. The things that I hear some Americans say regarding many things but foremost among them about firearms (with a totally straight face!) shock me. Totally irrational. There is some pro-gun mentality that is imbedded in their brains seemingly from birth that is so clearly inconsistent with logic it's fucking amazing. It doesn't make any sense why so many people seem to want to believe firearms in the possession of everyone is a good thing. Even people that don't own weapons in America are like this. It makes logical sense that someone who is a "gun enthusiast" due to some weird obsession as a child or something would be so ardent but the average American citizen? It makes no sense.

Also what’s the deal with their fixation with God? They are the only "civilized" first-world country (except I guess the Vatican) that hasn't out grown that.

Furthermore what the hell explains their infatuation with homosexuals? I saw on REAL TV, not a fucking Comedy Central thing, a guy honest to god arguing that they cant allow gays to marry because it will likely lead to people marrying their pets.

That is so retarded I shouldn’t have to explain why that being on TV is appalling. Am I to believe that around American dinner tables that night there was high minded discussion about same-sex marriage and that the family decided it can't be allowed because we need to make sure their neighbour will never be able to marry the cat? Yet gun lobby groups can effectively muzzle any debate, after 30 people are massacred, regarding gun control?

I suggest that the typical American appears to be foolish at times.

[Sarien]

I may be mistaken & correct me if I am wrong, but the state of VA does not have a background check or waiting period to purchase guns. You can purchase on the spot in VA at a gun show.

It's a Federal Law, and Today it comes out how it happened.

Ladies and Gentlemen I give you "Where somebody fucked up."

He passed his State Police Background check, not one, but TWO different times, because when he was ordered to seek mental health care, the hospital decided to treat him as an outpatient basis, instead of being actually hospitalized.

Right there. That's where the system broke. If he'd been actually hospitalized (and I'll take a shot in the dark and assume he wasn't because of costs) then he would not have passed his background check, and would not have been able to obtain either firearm legally.

That's where the grief and frustration needs to be pointed. Because being an avid gun owner myself, forcefully in favor of my rights, I'll say quite plainly: That should never have been allowed to happen. And it needs fixed.

[Zerzera]

Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United European States.

Rofl, like there will ever be a president elected in the US that makes sense like that.

'Okay folks, let's shoot up the bad guys! Democracy and freedom will prevail. In the name of democracy and freedom. We are against evil, and terrorists! We will fight and overcome the terrorists! And I believe in God, and he's with us!'

Oh, that sounds like something I understand!

[genocidal]

Nobody in charge actually believes that. It's just some lip service we pay in order to do whatever the fuck we want, when we want. Sorry your country is just our bitch.

[SEAL]

And because of that attitude, your empire is at the beginning of the end.

[Jerome Scuggs]

or instead of debating we could just start presenting empirical evidence

[404 Not Found]

On the flipside of this debate, I am curious as to the laws in Europe on guns. Does the EU have one law that is comprehensive to every participating country in the EU? If not, how then is it different from the U.S. having this done on a State by State level?

Noting the geographic variables in the U.S. in comparing lets say New Jersey with Wyoming, laws pertaining to guns would be different. Wyoming has such a large wilderness area of open hunting lands of which is one of its attractions to tourism, that this is something that many generations have come to take as status quo. When one hunts for sport or to feed a family, as deer & fowl are plentiful in Wyoming, why should a gun law prohibit these people from owning or purchasing a hunting rifle or shotgun?

Obviously New Jersey would not have the openess of gun owenership as Wyoming would. In New jersey, the purchase & licensing of a gun would enter into a reason for self protection. Remember that it's easier to obtain an illegal handgun on the street for the criminal element. There is some hunting in NJ, but not on a scale of what one would encounter in Wyoming.

My point is that each State itself has its own laws aside from the Federal laws in purchasing a Legal firearm. I still think that in most cases, the problems stem from illegally obtained guns and not from those that purchase these legally and obey the laws.

Look into it if anyone is interested. All one has to do is check out this LINK

[Kolar]

or instead of debating we could just start presenting empirical evidence

Sounds like fun, let me get my list of liberal wacko extremist websites AFK. Where's Spinsanity when you need him?

[Jerome Scuggs]

Sounds like fun, let me get my list of liberal wacko extremist websites AFK. Where's Spinsanity when you need him?

ex·trem·ist (ĭk-strē'mĭst) n. One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

prac·ti·cal (prăk'tĭ-kəl) adj. Of, relating to, governed by, or acquired through practice or action, rather than theory, speculation, or ideals: gained practical experience of sailing as a deck hand.

i·de·al (ī-dē'əl, ī-dēl') adj. Conforming to an ultimate form or standard of perfection or excellence.

ul·ti·mate (ŭl'tə-mĭt) adj. The greatest extreme; the maximum: actions that represented the ultimate in political expediency.

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em·pir·i·cal (ĕm-pîr'ĭ-kəl) adj. 1. Relying on or derived from observation or experiment: empirical results that supported the hypothesis.
2. Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment: empirical laws.
3. Guided by practical experience and not theory, especially in medicine.