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the next few years on the world stage

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  • #31
    Originally posted by DankNuggets View Post
    all that refers to congress' powers to make laws b/c of them regulating commerce. i was refering to him wanting to ignore the supreme court's ruling in roe v. wade. i'm no constitutional law expert, but overturning previous cases seems like precedents for overturning any case of fed v. states right's. Federal always wins versus state, and state always wins versus local.
    Lopez is a precedent, it has been used to judge cases that don't fall within the paradigm of the commerce clause.

    Paul's view is that if it's not mentioned in the Constitution, the Feds shouldn't have power - because that's what the Constitution specifically states. Roe vs. Wade deals with something the Federal Government shouldn't have power over - it belongs to the states. This does not mean Paul will "overturn" all laws. It means that the Fed will be kept in check, and things like, oh, I don't know - the past eight years? - will not be able to happen.

    look at these two examples: 1)a couple of yrs ago, the great city of Denver, CO decided to decriminalize the possession of less than an ounce of marijuana by a majority vote in a general election. However, the state and federal gov't decided to ignore the voice of the people (who voted for them, mind you) and supercede the local law with state and federal. same thing w/medical marijuana in a lot of states. 2)the most famous example of fed v. states' rights -- the war of nothern aggression
    I don't see how these examples are relevant. Both are basically, "The people made a decision, the Federal government overstepped their boundaries". If anything, it's a case of why things like Roe/Wade should be overturned.

    but if ron paul wants to invalidate the past 200+ years of constitutional law then by all means, send us back to the 1700s
    First off, your hyperbole, "send us back to the 1700s" - you realize we would not actually go back to the 1700's, right? We'd still be in 2007 except alot more well off and able to smoke marijuana.

    But anyways, Ron Paul wants to invalidate 200 years of constitutional rape. The Federal government has pretty much done away with the Constitution. For every basic right we have, there are "exceptions" to that right, and for "national security" reasons they can be revoked.

    If you think that undoing all the damage that has been done to our body of law will "send us back to the 1700s", though, I can't help you - you gotta research this yourself and then form your own opinion.

    It just sucks we can't bring people from the 1700's back, though. Because quite frankly, I think if Thomas Jefferson came to this time period, he'd probably be pretty pissed we're even questioning Paul's beliefs on the Constitution.

    But if danknuggetz wants to invalidate the invalidating of 200+ years of constitutional rape than by all means, send us back to a horrible, divided, ignorant, war-mongering country. oh shi
    Last edited by Jerome Scuggs; 08-10-2007, 04:11 PM.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cops View Post
      wouldn't it be ironic if another cold war broke out between the US and Russia, it'd be terribly unlikely but still ironic.
      I dunno, there are weird political ties now. It's not East vs. West... the US and China are at odds but both are weary of North Korea, and then you've got Russia with Putin becoming more authoritarian, coupled with that poisoned spy...

      I think it boils down to the proliferation question: who's going to have nukes in the next five years and who isn't. God forbid some kleptocrat in Africa buy a few from the Soviets and nuke South Africa. But besides that, it could shift the balance of power - or neutralize it. When everyone has nuclear weapons, everyone'll be a lot less willing to saber rattle.

      A massive world conflict isn't something I'm going to expect. Countries are still forming and re-forming from a century of world war, imperialism, and the Cold War, so I think it's going to be a series of local conflicts, mainly, backed by superpowers. But are there "superpowers", anymore? America's definitely not where it once stood, thanks to Vietnam and Iraq, and there are no ideals at stake - ie Democracy and Communism - that are as black and white. The new idealism is religion, and alot of these wars are semi-religious in nature, because there are so many religions that all hate eachother.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by DankNuggets View Post
        The worst thing Russia could possibly do to itself would be to focus on re-militarizing (sp?). Look how far it got them before. They should focus on securing real world technology instead of focusing on defense spending. Yeah they have a lot of problems with different factions in central asia, but it's more of a police-ing/legislative issue. Look at Japan- with little money spent towards defense compared to technology and globalization, they've gone from a broken country to a technological superpower. If Russia could somehow jump on this bandwagon (outsource our jobs there instead of India?) they'd do much more to promote the general welfare of the citizens. Well i guess parading missles around the streets promotes welfare too...
        Well, Russia has always been a militaristic state, and the People have always had a single, powerful, leader. IMO, their culture isn't "ready" for a free democracy, and so I think the Russian people will prefer militarization to anything else - it's what the spirit of the people has always reflected, it's happening even now.

        The thing is, though, that alot of American war-hawk thinktanks are under the mass delusion that we are still a world power, a massive world power, and that we could take on the Russians and Chinese. As a result, The Russians and Chinese (along with other, not-so-important countries) have begun doing joint military exercises, which might make a few people nervous around Washington, thus escalating a situation.
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        • #34
          oh and here's some food for thought: china and taiwan
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          • #35
            Originally posted by Cops View Post
            wouldn't it be ironic if another cold war broke out between the US and Russia, it'd be terribly unlikely but still ironic.
            Here's the thing: do you think that any massive war, massacre, bombing, infectious outbreak or any other bad scenario was "likely"? This is why I don't want to be arguing the probability of scenarios, just impacts. Debates are never fun when you're arguing the "if". I hate to be cliche, but were people dismissing the notion of a terrorist attack as "unlikely", seven years ago? It could even be said that if you spend all your time debating the likelihood of an event, you won't be prepared if it actually occurs. Probability in world politics is pretty wild, because people aren't rational and logical. What if Putin actually does have a huge f'n grudge to get off his shoulders?
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            • #36
              so are you pushing RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT????

              i'm just saying that what he wants to accomplish is impossible. changing the government has become almost impossible too. with 435 members of the house and almost all of them trying cover their own asses real change doesn't happen unless it benefits them some how.

              I know it's a Micheal Moore-esque film, but the movie "In Pot We Trust" made me lose most of my hope for congress. Don't know if anyone's seen it, but it's about a lobbyist trying to pass a medical marijuana bill. Once he finally get's a congressman to speak about the bill and get it to a vote, a slew of ignorant change-fearing assholes proceded to one by one get up and talk about how they've seen how marijuana "ruined the lives" of several people they claim to know (although he says he had 10 employees, i doubt he knew any of their first names...) and how this bill is a push for legalization of marijuana. Wow, I've never seen so many people refuse to listen to one side of an arguement. Not only did they NEVER address the issue of medical marijuana, they tricked other congressmen into believing that it was a bill to legalize pot and seduce the youth of america. needless to say the bill lost by over a hundred votes...

              sorry for the digression, but i just wanted to show why i have zero faith in our congressional body when it comes to making unbias decisions or listening to scientific facts presented to them. after all, what do doctors know about what can/can't be used for medicine...

              i'm not saying we'd be riding horses and plowing our own fields, i was just saying that on the whole, it would be damn hard to say that we would be better w/o a strong federal gov't. i don't like them anymore than you, but we need infrastructure to be a superpower.

              and since it probably won't matter anyway, ill vote for ron in the primary. (could he win any state?)
              Last edited by DankNuggets; 08-10-2007, 04:18 PM.
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              • #37
                i definitely don't see world conflict as east vs. west, more like undeveloped country vs undeveloped country. as far as china and russia are concerned, think of who they could pick as their greatest ally? what greater ally than the united states? we're more than willing to help ppl who don't want to be helped. if someone attacked russia/china, or they attacked someone, we'd probably be the first country to enter the foree. i don't foresee any world wars happing any time soon, but if they do, it'd probably set the world back a couple of decades instead of the spring forward that other WW's have created
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                • #38
                  Wars between the U.S., Russia & China would be fought if by weapons using a country that for example was like Vietnam or Korea. We didn't fight the Chinese in China, but fought them in Korea, as the same can be applied to what the U.S was doing to the Soviet Union during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. We actually supplied and supported weapons and intelligence to most of the insurgent groups that seek jihad against the U.S. today.

                  It goes back and forth one way or the other. If China wanted to defeat the U.S., it wouldn;t have to go to a military strike, they own the U.S. with all the monies the U.S. is now in debt. to China for. They already own the U.S. technically on paper...economically they could ruin and control the U.S. by calling in the monies borrowed thanks to GWB.

                  War will either be by those that have nothing to lose but only gain in a military fashion...and for those that would lose and have everything to gain can just do so in an economic path.

                  The cold war is already starting again with the U.S. wanting to deploy missles in old eastern block countries as the Russians are going to point their missles at Europe now.

                  History will always repeat itself it would seem.

                  The only war not mentioned is that of a biological sense, of which I think will be the next and most likely scenario.
                  May your shit come to life and kiss you on the face.

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                  • #39
                    Funny that we were all talking and fighting about the greenhouse and cutting down on burning fossil fuel, now countries are fighting over the melting north pole for these resources... Pretty fucking ironic...
                    You ate some priest porridge

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
                      oh and here's some food for thought: china and taiwan
                      I think this has been a bubble that has been waiting to pop. I'm not sure how things will play out.
                      it makes me sick when i think of it, all my heroes could not live with it so i hope you rest in peace cause with us you never did

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs View Post
                        Here's the thing: do you think that any massive war, massacre, bombing, infectious outbreak or any other bad scenario was "likely"? This is why I don't want to be arguing the probability of scenarios, just impacts. Debates are never fun when you're arguing the "if". I hate to be cliche, but were people dismissing the notion of a terrorist attack as "unlikely", seven years ago? It could even be said that if you spend all your time debating the likelihood of an event, you won't be prepared if it actually occurs. Probability in world politics is pretty wild, because people aren't rational and logical. What if Putin actually does have a huge f'n grudge to get off his shoulders?
                        you're right, sometimes the most unlikely things happen.
                        it makes me sick when i think of it, all my heroes could not live with it so i hope you rest in peace cause with us you never did

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                        • #42
                          Four words:

                          The Day After Tomorrow
                          Epinephrine's History of Trench Wars:
                          www.geocities.com/epinephrine.rm

                          My anime blog:
                          www.animeslice.com

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Jerome Scuggs
                            I don't see how these examples are relevant. Both are basically, "The people made a decision, the Federal government overstepped their boundaries". If anything, it's a case of why things like Roe/Wade should be overturned.
                            It's precedent and generally accepted that Federal law trumps state and local laws. Whether that's spelled out in your constitution or not is not really an issue anymore. If giving up weed means preserving Roe vs. Wade then I think it's a fair trade off. 200 years of constitutional Government tells you that no document, no system is going to stop people from overstepping their limits. Both problems, an overpowered executive and procedure on which level of Government may supersede the other in legislation can be solved but not by some Anti-Federalist nonsense.

                            My opinion is that neither state, local or federal law should define what you do with your body, nor should a clear majority of men be making that decision, through legislation, peer or social pressure for women. "Dr." Paul believes like many idiots that it's murder, at any stage, no matter what the scientific community states. Thus it's a moral issue for him, not a legislative or procedural issue.

                            The solution is meaningful reform, removing lobbyist from Washington, removing most if not all of executive power and a lot of other sensible things. Not electing useless fucking pedophile, hypocritical tools would also help. You can't tear down the system but you can make it better. I don't believe that we will always have to put up with presidents who style themselves like kings every time something blows up, like some American conservatives. You can strike a balance between the two. That does start with having respect for the constitution and you can nitpick over state laws all you want but the more important things like the Bill of Rights effects the common person, and Bush Co. has shown they have no problem shitting on it. You have to separate the idealogical bullshit from the equation, Bush isn't in the mid 20s in opinion polls because people disagree with his views. People hate him because he's an authoritarian asshole who devalues human life and treats his people and the general world community like four year olds.
                            Last edited by Kolar; 08-11-2007, 05:54 AM.

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                            • #44
                              This thread reminded me of

                              America: Freedom to Fascism
                              TWL-J champ season 5 (Elusive)
                              TWL-D champ season 6 (Elusive)
                              TWL-D champ season 8 (-FINAL-)
                              TWL-D champ season 10 (Syndicate)

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Epinephrine View Post
                                Four words:

                                The Day After Tomorrow
                                Broke Back Mountain meets Ten Things I hate about you.
                                it makes me sick when i think of it, all my heroes could not live with it so i hope you rest in peace cause with us you never did

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