The Westboro Baptist Church now has a serious debt

[jeem]

people like these are reason enough not to vote. can money replace the honor they stole from every warchild's funeral?

[winipcfg]

But is that harassment worth 11 million? I'm no fan of their practice, but logically and legally, the case is completely biased as if the father choose trial by jury knowing he'd pocket the cash.

They'll appeal.

I think $11 million is a ridiculous amount of money. But I think the point in awarding so much is to indirectly shut down the organization. The government can't shut down a church, or anything for the matter, just because it's "mean." A jury can't rule in such a way either. Since Westboro's consituency is primarily one family, there's no way they will be able to pay for this and operate in the same manner they have been, thus they have essentially shut down the organization.

Whether they will actually stay down or not is a matter for debate.

[Xog]

woo

[Ayano]

I think $11 million is a ridiculous amount of money. But I think the point in awarding so much is to indirectly shut down the organization.....

and while following such measures, why not throw away our entire legal process and fairness of judgment while we're at it.

[winipcfg]

and while following such measures, why not throw away our entire legal process and fairness of judgment while we're at it.

What part of the legal process was thrown away? Someone sued another party, a peer jury decided the issue, and the jurors delivered a ruling they believed was right.

I don't see where the legal process got thrown away.

[Ayano]

.....I don't see where the legal process got thrown away.

It's by induction. Is a legal process truly legal and valid if the verdict is so overwhelmingly unfair? Should vulgar picketing be fined an excess of 11 million where a fair amount would only be in 6 figures?

[Fit of Rage]

If you think that justice applies to the Westboro Baptist Church, sort out your morals and get back to me.

[Ayano]

I believe in fair judgment. Sure they're heathens but what image does society put on themselves when they make such unjust decisions in the name of justice? This is by civil law, so if anyone wants to cry Iraq and run with it, I consider your arguments null and void.

[Squeezer]

I've stayed out of the discussion for now, because I can't decide which side of the fence I'm on. On one hand, this lawsuit could possibly set a precedent for how cases of "distress" are handled in the future. Do we really want to award people who've had their feelings hurt $11 million dollars in the future? The question then becomes how much higher can civil suits rise?

On the other hand, the Westboro Baptist Church is a group of true douchebags. They made their fortune on assault cases filed against families of Iraq war veterans. When the Church showed up, these outraged families started beating the shit out of the self-righteous cockmongers and two weeks later, they were in court....As if the death wasn't enough.

I'm still undecided on the matter.

[Noah]

You have no reason to fear the first scenario,. The lawsuit was set so high because everyone knows that something has to be done with someone so extreme. This isn't just someone suing someone for giving them for something random. If someone will actually get such a high lawsuit again, then they have to reach that same level of shitheadery.

Since we exercise freedom of speech, we can't just round them up and launch them into the sun. However, since they are using just to provoke, then the legal system has to be crafty to shut them down. They are showing so much disrespect for those who has DIED for their country, that everyone knows that this can't continue. This is the best way to do it, not only are this legally correct, but the money is going to a victim as well.

If you fail to see how a group of complete assholes can expect to get same treatment as someone not complete assholes, then you don't know what human nature is.

[Ephemeral]

It was a jury trial.

Juries are made up of people (supposed to be ‘peers’) who have been raised under a capitalistic system. Capitalism has promoted ‘Meism’ (defined as putting oneself ahead of every other person) and juries have habitually been handing out very large awards where a single person triumphs over a wrongful large entity. Examples of this abound such as the infamous Liebeck v. McDonald's hot coffee trial where a jury awarded a dumbass woman $2.9 million.

USA did not invent capitalism or 'Meism', although we probably are guilty of early and complete adoption. Now capitalism is gaining momentum in many other countries around the world and it will be interesting to see if they can minimize the negative effects (such as 'Meism').

[MirrorriM]

Money awarded to plaintiffs is commonly lowered by the judge. In the McDonald's case the judge lowered the value to around $600,000, which later on was reduced even further when McD's settled with the woman privately.

So it's no big deal that the guy was awarded 11 million dollars because that value is almost always lowered drastically by a judge. What matters more is that justice was still served.

[Noah]

Just to have it said, I'd defend a person that went on a wild skull fuck spree of the WBC (literally).

[Ephemeral]

Money awarded to plaintiffs is commonly lowered by the judge. In the McDonald's case the judge lowered the value to around $600,000, which later on was reduced even further when McD's settled with the woman privately.

So it's no big deal that the guy was awarded 11 million dollars because that value is almost always lowered drastically by a judge. What matters more is that justice was still served.

Agreed that damages are often lower by the judges, plea bargaining, or appeals.
However I disagree when you say “…no big deal…’. A pattern of jury judgments being changed, IMO, shows that something systemic is very broken. And in this case, what is broken is the perception that many American's have in thinking that they are not responsible for their actions and that the blame should really be placed with some large entity (government, corporation, etc.). We see the same exact thing in the TW community, we don’t accept our own responsibility but rather blame staff. Basically we take our own personal vices and try to turn them into ‘virtues’.

[MirrorriM]

Agreed. I figured I'd get some criticism for "no big deal" and hesitated about keeping it. I decided to just keep it simple in that most people in this thread are appalled by the huge sum of money awarded and whether or not that was "just" and I wanted to point out that most cases have the value drastically lowered so the sum of money shouldnt be such an issue; rather, what the church is doing deserves to be discussed more.

Edit: I completely agree about the "meism" and people deferring blame to larger entities.