Religious Questions

[deathking]

All praise existentialism plz.

The meaning of my existence is to create meaning out my existence, which is already defined as the creation of meaning from my existence, which further means that I should create the meaning out of existence.

repeat until death.

[Galleleo]

Forget about the bible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotta

^^

All Hail Julius Caesar

[Facetious]

... so fellas, it doesn't really matter what you believe. It's not believing in the wrong thing, or the right thing. What matters is that you believe in something.

So from your perspective being an atheist is more noble than being agnostic?

[Kolar]

... so fellas, it doesn't really matter what you believe. It's not believing in the wrong thing, or the right thing. What matters is that you believe in something. It's not my fault I'm a christian, nor is it your fault to be a non-christian. It's not my concern to convert you, and when you do attack the message, it's not me you're attacking, it's the word of God (that you may or may not agree with). So please, if there's going to be discourse, then at least make it civilized.

No it was your choice to believe in God and be a Christian.

If I have a problem with one of your beliefs or a message you appear to be promoting then the argument is with you and only you.

[Bioture]

No it was your choice to believe in God and be a Christian.

If I have a problem with one of your beliefs or a message you appear to be promoting then the argument is with you and only you.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm also sorry you choose to go after what one person thinks instead of a specific idea. I thought you were smarter than that. But what do I know.

Furthermore, it may be MY belief, but it's based on a HOLY doctrine. So let me ask you this, if I have a problem with your non-belief, do I sit back and ostracize you for being incompetent in understanding the gospel, or do I take a stand for a faith that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND? And where is the doctrine that you are defending? What are you standing up for that's so much more logical?

Please notice that I capitalized those three words for a reason. No one can understand scripture unless they were meant to. I didn't understand it at first, but now I understand just a little bit of it - and that has changed my life. So now what? Will you come after me for believing something you do not? Or will you go after the idea that maybe my faith has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with it?

[Bioture]

So from your perspective being an atheist is more noble than being agnostic?

Having been a pretty good atheist, I'd like to consider agnosticism to be along the same lines as people who are indifferent. If that's your take while looking at something as broad and crazy as religion and faith... I don't know... I'd just rather see a person be convicted about something.

[Kolar]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm also sorry you choose to go after what one person thinks instead of a specific idea. I thought you were smarter than that. But what do I know.

If I am going to debate anything with you it's with you and your ideas and opinions about the topics. I don't care if you think something is holy, taboo or that I am a bad person and will goto hell for questioning it. What I don't like is that the pretext of everything and anything on the issues of morality with people who follow a religion is that we HAVE TO, (and I have to say this you're not doing it all Bio) give credence to the bible, get the quick word in there about god and love then start working on the atheists (and by that I mean treat those with opposing ideas like shit). Would you like me to start generalizing all Christians and what each of them think then apply it to you Bio? Because I am not going to insult you by doing that or in any other way, I thought you were smarter then that.

[Bioture]

If I am going to debate anything with you it's with you and your ideas and opinions about the topics. I don't care if you think something is holy, taboo or that I am a bad person and will goto hell for questioning it.

And likewise I should care about your opinions on faith... why? I don't care if you think something isn't divine, taboo, or if christianity is flawed because guess what, you're just one person. And your opinions don't matter.

What I don't like is that the pretext of everything and anything on the issues of morality with people who follow a religion is that we HAVE TO, (and I have to say this you're not doing it all Bio) give credence to the bible, get the quick word in there about god and love then start working on the atheists (and by that I mean treat those with opposing ideas like shit). Would you like me to start generalizing all Christians and what each of them think then apply it to you Bio? Because I am not going to insult you by doing that or in any other way, I thought you were smarter then that.

Another point of reference for you: I was a pretty damned good athiest at one point in my life. You can generalize all you want, then what you say about christians won't be any better than what they say about you (and hell and brimstone and what have you.) Who said insult? We can't talk about something without you having to point a finger at something that's wrong? That's fine. But I do know you're smart enough to figure out that there's a difference between discourse and scapegoating. And you haven't said anything I haven't heard before. So keep digging. Give me something that doesn't sound regurgitated... and respond to the rest of my initial post while you're at it.

[Kolar]

And your opinions don't matter.

And you're talking about civil discourse?


Your problem is you don't want to engage people, you'd rather they tear apart your fucking views so you can fall back on the fact that you believe they're holy and right therefore my opinion is irrelevant and you can go on with your life. What a house of cards Bio. Why don't you take some responsibility for what you believe in, argue it and stand by it. You said believing in something is important and this is a forum, if not walk away and stop being a douche. Or just stop being a douche and start treating me with a little respect, baby steps.

[Bioture]

And you're talking about civil discourse?


Your problem is you don't want to engage people, you'd rather they tear apart your fucking views so you can fall back on the fact that you believe they're holy and right therefore my opinion is irrelevant and you can go on with your life. What a house of cards Bio. Why don't you take some responsibility for what you believe in, argue it and stand by it. You said believing in something is important and this is a forum, if not walk away and stop being a douche.

Wait wait so YOU can tell me you don't give a shit, but I can't do the same.

Your problem is that once I engage you, you'd rather fall back on the fact that what I believe in is illogical, and therefore irrelevant. So better yet, why don't YOU take your beliefs and FUCK OFF. I never thought I'd be the one to say that! How's that for irony. You won't win this argument against me because I've been where you are - and you can't say likewise. In a nutshell, you don't know shit, little man. If that's the way you like it, then that's the way I'm going to treat you - like a little kid who thinks he can deduct the truth from a little knowledge he got on the internet.

Here's what I believe in simpler terms: what you believe doesn't mean shit because it only involves yourself. You have NO standing in any doctrine. Everything you've told me is regurgitation. With no real life experience, you're just talking out of your ass. In the end that's all you'll have to deal with - yourself. So if I were you, I wouldn't take what I'm saying too seriously, since your opinion doesn't mean shit to me. (And likewise... the world can go on spinning.) Thanks for wasting my fucking time.

[Kolar]

No actually all I wanted was you to not use your religion as a shield or to treat people without faith as lesser or below you. I actually do care what you think and what others think, I just don't care to hear about how I'm going to hell or about how gay people are evil. But if this is what religion does to someone I truly hope it never afflicts me, here's hoping you're just a bitch Bio.

[Bioture]

since we're obviously off the civil discourse, let me continue this rant on the rest of you.

First, let me assure everyone who thinks I'm your standard bible-verse quoting christian can stop reading, right now and save yourself 5 minutes of your worthless lives. Because that's not how I handle things anymore. In having to deal with people who were likeminded to my older self, I realized something - people will tear apart only what they disagree with. The leave everything else alone, turn a deaf ear, and say "fuck it if I can't understand this, it's gotta be bullshit."

So it's alright. I try and say it doesn't matter what you believe in, and that doesn't work either - because I have to defend my beliefs. So figure this bullshit out: I have to defend a belief just so you'll have an answer to something you've already made up your mind on. Better yet, if I don't try, you'll point fingers and call me a coward. Tell me how that's not bullshit. Seriously, if I was that dumb as an athiest, lord have MERCY.

[Bioture]

No actually all I wanted was you to not use your religion as a shield or to treat people without faith as lesser or below you. I actually do care what you think and what others think, I just don't care to hear about how I'm going to hell or about how gay people are evil. But if this is what religion does to someone I truly hope it never afflicts me, here's hoping you're just a bitch Bio.

Please point out when I did that. Until then, I hope your ignorance is fucking you just the way you like it. I hope it never "afflicts" you as well, seriously. And if my former self was here, as one athiest to another, you fucking disappoint me.

[Kolar]

By all means keep going.

[Galleleo]

If I get this right.. is Bio actually claiming to be better then Kolar (and me) because he has been an atheist, but then became a Christian? I have an protestant mom and had a Christian dad. I have been to a somewhat Christian school (there was some bible reading, but no studies or anything). I have been baptised, but I decided rather quickly for myself that I do not care about religion, I would rather just rely on my own mind.

And how can you assume that only because Kolar is atheist his beliefs on involve himself but your beliefs involve more? I can't speak for Kolar, but I am atheist and to me that doesn't mean it only involves myself. I have my morals and norms, and sure, some of them might coincide with the ones in the bible, doesn't mean mine are based on them. But I can write a 2000 page book, but some commonly used morals in there, invent some stories around it and exclaim it to be holy. The only thing that would actually make it holy is people believing in it, and its only really holy to them. Now if they wanna believe in it, so be it. I don't care, believe what you want, do what you want. Just don't breach in on my rights, my beliefs, my personal space. Don't force your beliefs down my throat and you can believe whatever the hell you want.

Personally I think the whole scientist vs. religious person debate is nonsense. No one can win that argument cause it's like comparing apples and pears. Personally it pisses me off when people openly hate on gays cause they think the bible says so. It pisses me off when people invade peoples privacy cause they believe they have to change them. Love thy fucking neighbour and leave them the fuck alone (obviously within the right context). You can't scientifically argue the bible (meaning, people that believe in it won't listen to whatever you say, no matter how empirically you can prove your statement), you can easily attack it scientifically though. You cannot scientifically convince a religious person, a religious person can easily use his beliefs to counter whatever you say and feel that he has won the argument. Like I said, it's like comparing apples with pears. True I have mixed myself in the discussion sometimes, I don't believe the bible, I think most of what it says is complete bullshit and when people use it to defend stances against for example gays, it annoys me and I'll reply sometimes. But realistically speaking, the debate is useless. Just live and let live.