Here's an idea, kill NAFTA

[Cops]

Cops, I find it very hard to believe that the United States will ever enter a conflict with Canada. Maybe it isn't extremely smart of your country to rely on America economically and militaristically, but I still doubt that America would ever cease to protect Canada or try to screw them over economically, considering the relationship we've had for quite some time.

I really don't think it's that far-fetched to believe that if America needed something that they would take it. Basically we are getting screwed economically, we're owed huge sums of money for water but that shit is just looked at as water on the bridge. We sell our oil for 30 cents a liter to America, at a time when we could sell it for five times that. We charge ourselves 1.25 for a liter of gas but sell it to you for five times less than we pay for it!

We rely so much on the states to buy our domestic products, we sell ourselves short. Like I said we've really failed at competing in a global economy, we're like an extension of America. We've been able to stay afloat for so long because of our land mass and resources, but the prize of seperation is so much bigger than getitng nickels for our oil.

I think militaristically we are seperate, we refused to go to Iraq and have been taking steps to get our military up to par, our soldiers generally all have degrees and are looked at as peace keepers. Can you imagine if we refused to sell our oil for 30 cents a liter? America would be on high-alert, we're no longer the peace-keeping loving Canadians but the hordeing socialists. And the rest would just be a speculative fiction....

[dads revenge]

We need to develope a replacement for oil that involves a resorce that won't run out like say we invent a car that runs on bullshit then we can save the ozone while we drive.

[DankNuggets]

Ultimately all our energy comes from the sun, so i think that the fastest way to gather all that energy with the least transferences would be the future. Think about oil, it's high in energy but the method it takes to produce is ridiculously inefficient. I wonder how many dinosaurs it takes to make a gallon of gas, how many animals those dinosaurs ate, how many plants they ate, how long the plants were growing and taking in sunlight. i can't remember exactly but it's something like 500,000 units of energy from the sun to transfer just 1 to us (by eating). Eating isn't the same as making fuel, but it's all energy transfer along the line. Biofuels are a step in the right direction, but realistically they still lose a ton of the energy they take to make.

Mark my words, someday the solar car will exist (just like in honey i shrunk the kids). A car that runs off of stored energy fromt the sun wouldn't need several "hands" to make that solar radiation viable fuel for kinetic motion.

[Cops]

yes..... oil is terrible

[Jerome Scuggs]

We need to develope a replacement for oil that involves a resorce that won't run out like say we invent a car that runs on bullshit then we can save the ozone while we drive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080418/...SEBulvVn5H2ocA

what are those rich guys doing with their money? the smart ones are making a profit.

[Jerome Scuggs]

Mark my words, someday the solar car will exist (just like in honey i shrunk the kids). A car that runs off of stored energy fromt the sun wouldn't need several "hands" to make that solar radiation viable fuel for kinetic motion.

and uh... yeah. solar cars have existed for something like 10 years now. recent advances in solar cell tech will probably lead to its commercialization soon

[Epinephrine]

Cops, just wondering where you heard about the 30 cents a litre thing.

Are we selling oil at $x/barrel and you're just dividing? Or are our refinaries selling refined gasoline for that much? And how much do they charge Canadians. Our pump price is very different from the price that it costs the oil companies before they ship it out to outlets and get taxed and so on.

Actually if you take a closer look at the world market, oil usually isn't bought at 'market price'. Either corporate oil companies extract their own oil (and it costs however much it costs them to extract it) and sell the refined products, or countries will buy from nationalized companies. For instance, the US buys oil at a lot cheaper than market price from say Saudi Arabia.

If there's one country that is disadvantaged in all this, it's China which didn't enter the oil game until very late. So they have very few reciprocal agreements with other countries. Since they cannot afford to run the country on market price oil, they do things like support Iran and Sudan because these countries are willing to sell oil at a lower set price to China for guarantees of other types of support (political cover, technology, low-cost loans).

So even if you are correct and we're selling oil cheaper to America, you need to look at the bigger picture to see what it really means.

[Cops]

Cops, just wondering where you heard about the 30 cents a litre thing.

Are we selling oil at $x/barrel and you're just dividing? Or are our refinaries selling refined gasoline for that much? And how much do they charge Canadians. Our pump price is very different from the price that it costs the oil companies before they ship it out to outlets and get taxed and so on.

Actually if you take a closer look at the world market, oil usually isn't bought at 'market price'. Either corporate oil companies extract their own oil (and it costs however much it costs them to extract it) and sell the refined products, or countries will buy from nationalized companies. For instance, the US buys oil at a lot cheaper than market price from say Saudi Arabia.

If there's one country that is disadvantaged in all this, it's China which didn't enter the oil game until very late. So they have very few reciprocal agreements with other countries. Since they cannot afford to run the country on market price oil, they do things like support Iran and Sudan because these countries are willing to sell oil at a lower set price to China for guarantees of other types of support (political cover, technology, low-cost loans).

So even if you are correct and we're selling oil cheaper to America, you need to look at the bigger picture to see what it really means.

It means we appease our neighbor who is suppose to protect us, we're paying for military protection in case shit happens. I think we need to stop relying on America and get a fully functioning military that doesn't look like a fucking joke, I'll give credit where credits due, we're definitely working on expanding the Canadian military.

Oil Sands are deposits of bitumen, a molasses-like viscous oil that will not flow unless heated or diluted with lighter hydrocarbons. They are contained in three major areas beneath 140,200* square kilometres of north-eastern Alberta - an area larger than the state of Florida, an area twice the size of New Brunswick, more than four and half times the size of Vancouver Island, and 26 times larger than Prince Edward Island. However, only about two per cent of the initial established resource has been produced to date

http://www.energy.gov.ab.ca/OurBusiness/oilsands.asp

Here's the bigger picture, we're fucking rich and we give our wealth away instead of truly developing this country into an economic powerhouse. We've aligned ourselves so deeply in the American economy that with a flick of a switch we're over just as fast as America. NAFTA guarantees that even if America was sinking we'd still have to hand them over more money and supplies.

Know what pisses me off? It's that America "buys" 85% of Alberta's oil, and that because of Free Trade Alberta MUST sell 85% of their oil to the States which they promptly turn around and sell back to us at a profit. The real tragedy is that we're afraid to sell it to other countries, or even use some of it to self sustain and keep inflation low, 'Oh El Salvador isn't doing well oil prices go up (we're all sitting there thinking the exact same fucking thing 'b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t') 'You're telling me one country isn't doing well that's not even in the middle east and prices just went up 30%??!?!

Imagine, we might even be able to force market prices down by competing with Iran or Sudan. I fucking guarantee you countries would much rather deal with us. What are we afraid of? Breaking our lose alliance with America, I'm not even saying anything about cutting them off or an embargo but selling 'it' to other countries would give us a greater involvement in world trade. Regardless if you like China or not, they're a world player and if you want to be involved in world economics you've got to deal with them. Man, I wish Canadians could see the vast amount of potential that lies within our country, very few countries have the ability and resources like we do.

[Galleleo]

The Dutchies have been winning the solar challenge for years and years now.

[Cops]

that's cause you guys are ahead of the game, I think we tax a lot more than you guys do and your services are from what I hear top notch

[Exalt]

they have hydrogen cars now that run off hydrogen fuel

and they have made hydrogen gas stations in test areas

its far more efficient, far cheaper, and renewable

this is the way of the future, not oil

when oil runs out for the middle eastern countries, they will turn back into their little tribal 3rd world countries just like africa, and be a non-factor once again

Thank God

[Aorta]

NAFTA pisses me off. "free trade" is the ABSENCE of any sort sort of thing that nafta is - a system of tarriffs and cartelized agreements that prevent truly free trade.

if we got rid of it, America would benefit the most. assuming that getting rid of trade agreements would lead to a rise in the cost of imports (say Mexico doesn't have to sell us tequila ABC for $X a gallon anymore and, sensing demand, raised the price to $Y) and, therefore, shift supply from foreign to domestic production (given relative elasticity holds, consumers switch to american whiskey DEF which is cheaper). this raises demand which raises supply.. and supply is met by increasing production, which means new jobs or technology. tequila ABC would respond by either decreasing imports to America (perhaps to find a new market in another country that, because of NAFTA, they couldn't trade with prior) or lower their prices to compete with whiskey DEF. in the long run an equilibrium would be established - and both companies will have benefitted.

Don't talk jerome hate when b**** people discuss politics

[Jerome Scuggs]

Don't talk jerome hate when b**** people discuss politics

explain what i said in terms of economics and i'll gladly never talk again

[Exalt]

explain what i said in terms of economics and i'll gladly never talk again

want me to? i am an economics major at purdue university... but will you really not talk again?

[Jerome Scuggs]

want me to? i am an economics major at purdue university... but will you really not talk again?

sure and if you'd like to contribute to any of the other discussions of economics, be my guest. but this is the only question i'll ask you: keynes. good guy or bad guy?