it turns out the fed has loaned almost $1 trillion dollars in the subprime crisis

[Jerome Scuggs]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...F4M&refer=home

remember when like 2 months ago all these people were like whatev, no biggie

given our current deficit and all else - how did the fed manage to pull a cool trillion out of its ass? and if it's money that wasn't borrowed our outright printed out of thin air (helicopter!), why wasn't it being used to, i dunno, fund many of our many failing public infrastructures?

more importantly - how the fuck is this sort of "fiscal policy" more responsible than -any- fiscal-related decision ever made by any company, ever?

because as it stands - the only, only way that the government can begin to repay our debts is through more and more taxation (which, good for me probably means legalization will happen... i guess i get a doorprize here, even if 90% of my legal bud's price goes to the government) - which, as history suggests, is not conducive to good standards of living.

???

how is the fed going to fix this?

[TagMor]

"A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine." - revelations 6:6

[Jeenyuss]

itt: "the fed" means tony danza.

[PH]

"A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not damage the oil and the wine." - revelations 6:6

"Leave the apple down the guy who is about to could think you do." - ph 16:24

TWO CAN PLAY THIS RETARDED GAME MISTER

[Doc Flabby]

given our current deficit and all else - how did the fed manage to pull a cool trillion out of its ass?

Quite easily they printed it, which is why inflation in the USA is now at over 5%.

[DankNuggets]

Quite easily they printed it, which is why inflation in the USA is now at over 5%.

THIS

[Fit of Rage]

Here you go jerome.

http://www.iousathemovie.com/about/

[Izor]

looks like a michael moore movie

[Jerome Scuggs]

it's a movie that's pretty ludicrous in a weird way. the end message i get is that these guys have obviously figured out the key to a stable financial system - savings and investment instead of debt and inflation. but then they fuck it all up by then insisting that people should save and invest - by force, if need be.

that's the problem - government intervention. force everyone to save and you have a massive retraction of flowing capital instead of a gradual, less chaotic transition that is happening right now in the economy - not everyone began cutting back their spending at once, some still have yet to change their fiscal habits. as the market fluctuates, people will adjust their spending/saving habits accordingly, ceteris paribus.

it's not a problem between the merits of debt versus saving, because both are completely vital and normal aspects of a functioning market economy. but when you try to manage that from a central planning bureau (the fed and their control of interest rates and fiscal policy), economic calculation breaks down and, well, this happens. you can't ever possibly calculate who needs to be saving, who can take out a loan, etc, and the closest they can get is blanket solutions (like lowering the interest rate which encourages more reckless loaning behavior).

but they'll HAVE to force people to save. the fed's throwing money around to anyone who made bad decisions, and now even other industries like GM are coming to the government demanding assistance and relief. noone wants to face reality and try to adjust their habits that caused problems, they just want bailouts. this pattern of rewarding bad decisionmaking with assistance and subsidies doesn't exactly promote positive business decision-making - so the fed's going to have to make decisions it can't possibly begin to even tackle, but it will have to. gl hf.

[Fluffz]

So what is your point? If you think the system crashes than go learn Russian, Chinese or whatever you think helps and dont try to save all those people dying in useless wars because they are right where they belong. The system works perfect - change, destruction and slavery are its engine. Fighting against a steady system should it ever emerge is what you should spare your energy for because sometimes you need to go a step back before you can go two steps forward.

Look, im the first one to grab a gun and try to survive a revolution by sending others into their deaths but than what? Do you have a better system for offer? What do we gain from a system of free and stable economy? Not that this is possible unless you change the human nature. You are ignoring the people around you, people are dumb and lazy. You assume that happy people will continue to work in waste disposal, IT or quantum physics? I say raise their dept, increase inflation and give them flat screen TVs so they continue cleaning dirt.

Im well aware that "striving for a future goal" can be missunderstood as fascism and inhumane but it is the Status Quo and i am not suggesting to remove individual rights. Reality is now and until the point in time where we have the technology and knowledge to change something we are bound to aim at it as a goal. The ideal system is irrelevant for us, thousands of people have to live their life as slaves -just dont tell them - but their sacrifice is the reason some of us have time to understand why a rotating superconductor creates a gravity field. If you take away the possibility to overcome humanity how is that human? It is ape. The so often suggested happiness for the masses is a just as questionable goal.

[Doc Flabby]

I don't really see the problem. There will always be boom and bust in a capitalist enconomy its natural.

What you have to realise is money is just a bit of paper or number on a computer screen people believe is worth something.

[Jerome Scuggs]

What do we gain from a system of free and stable economy?

freedom? stability?

[DankNuggets]

i can see what he's saying. It's agaisnt human nature to keep a system liek that stable. People are never content. Sure, a poor person who strikes it rich may be content, but people who are born in the middle, and stay in the middle the whole time, will never be content. They will always want more, untill they "have it better". The system of ups and downs gives us a bottom line that gives perspective. Unless human nature suddenly makes us content in our ways without seeing we could have it worse, we will always fall for the up and down cycle.

[Jerome Scuggs]

i can see what he's saying. It's agaisnt human nature to keep a system liek that stable. People are never content. Sure, a poor person who strikes it rich may be content, but people who are born in the middle, and stay in the middle the whole time, will never be content. They will always want more, untill they "have it better". The system of ups and downs gives us a bottom line that gives perspective. Unless human nature suddenly makes us content in our ways without seeing we could have it worse, we will always fall for the up and down cycle.

the free market is stable in a long-run sense. the billions of "instabilities" need correcting, and those corrections generate more information that guide and correct problems immediately as well as further down the road. it is the very fact that humans are never content that drives what we see as the "free market" (though i should use the term "society"). it is the fact that humans are never content that destroys artificially structured orders like governments and their body of law, due to disharmony of interests.

our government fiscal policy is like a drunk at the wheel - highly vulnerable to oversteering due to impaired judgement. when little mistakes are made, the fed responds with vastly distortive market signals that, even if they achieve their purpose, cause far-reaching damage. for instance, look at the bailout - all those financial industries are still afloat... even though the entire economy has undeniably tanked harder than it has in recent memory.

[Fluffz]

freedom? stability?

No. i suppose you sugggest individual freedom increases trough market freedom. If i feel like putting a stone in your way you have to move around it, free market or not. If i am not allowed to put stones in your way i am not free to do so. A free market needs to regulate contradicting needs like any other system. Maybe it does a good job at it but at a price which leads me to

Stability. You sound like that is a good thing when the most stable time we had in history is called dark age for a reason. We know nothing jet, lets wait another tenthousand years before we consider installing a stable system.