very interesting

[Jerome Scuggs]

seems like the rest of the world is figuring things out

http://watchingamerica.com/News/7016...us-government/

...This being said, it is extremely rare for a fast-food chain’s corporate loan to be viewed as a safer investment than the bonds of the world’s most powerful country.

What? Governments aren't as trustworthy as... McDonald's? Who would have thunkit!

http://ohmygov.com/blogs/general_new...mic-times.aspx

The widespread economic turmoil of the past few weeks has Americans hearing and thinking a lot about the long-term impact the crisis on Wall Street will have on the nation. If recent events in Canada are any indication, the ripple effect of this problem will reach into an area most people aren’t even considering at this moment: the environment.

Roger Gibbins, of the Calgary Herald, recently asked the question that holds a global resonance: Will Canadian voters hold firm to an environmental agenda in bad times as well as good? Until recently, the upcoming Canadian election, much like the American counterpart, had a decidedly green feel to it. Environmental issues were part of the campaign dialogue.

But then the economic crisis began to unfold, and Canadians hoping to push a green agenda found voters a lot less interested. In the western province of British Columbia, where a carbon tax was recently adopted by provincial voters, support for the incumbent Liberal government that pushed the tax plan is fading, recent polls show.

I'm not going to, ah... raise any past discussions on these TW forums about energy policy, but...

[paradise!]

As for your first article, nothing much to say there, that is the way things are right now.

For your second article, I agree with the people completely. IMO, If your home is nearly being foreclosed upon, i don't think i would, at that immediate time, care about melting ice in the artic. Idk tho just me, lowly high school kid. I don't think it would be right to impose even more burdens on the average american house hold simply because we are in a state of crisis right now. I mean look at gas prices, rising cost of healthcare (alot uninsured), rising cost of living, rising cost of produce. Everything is demanding more and more of our money. I mean take milk for example, i'm basically the milkman for my family, i used to buy 2 gallons of milk at $4.25. I truthfully used to whine about that. Now, I have to buy milk at 2 for $7, nearly 2x as much in less than 3 years. Nothing much to say.

Since, i don't really know your stance on the environment, i'm guessing it's probably opposite of what i'm saying, hippy.

[Capital Knockers]

As for your first article, nothing much to say there, that is the way things are right now.

For your second article, I agree with the people completely. IMO, If your home is nearly being foreclosed upon, i don't think i would, at that immediate time, care about melting ice in the artic. Idk tho just me, lowly high school kid. I don't think it would be right to impose even more burdens on the average american house hold simply because we are in a state of crisis right now. I mean look at gas prices, rising cost of healthcare (alot uninsured), rising cost of living, rising cost of produce. Everything is demanding more and more of our money. I mean take milk for example, i'm basically the milkman for my family, i used to buy 2 gallons of milk at $4.25. I truthfully used to whine about that. Now, I have to buy milk at 2 for $7, nearly 2x as much in less than 3 years. Nothing much to say.

Since, i don't really know your stance on the environment, i'm guessing it's probably opposite of what i'm saying, hippy.

Paradise you're only half wrong. Yeah with these things happening, some things have to be stretched - but how many times are we going to let the environment take the fall? We need to step it up as people and multi-task. Keep up with the work on the environment/energy crisis and deal with this. The time has come for us smarten up, let's hope we can do it.

[paradise!]

Paradise you're only half wrong. Yeah with these things happening, some things have to be stretched - but how many times are we going to let the environment take the fall? We need to step it up as people and multi-task. Keep up with the work on the environment/energy crisis and deal with this. The time has come for us smarten up, let's hope we can do it.

People do not want to risk foreclosure to save polar bars in the yukon, just the way it is. The average american is struggling, why burden them with a really bad-timed environmental tax/allocation of government spending. Spend the money to save MY money. Don't go save some damn arctic wolves, and the rare endangered "snowshoe hare". I would personally put my life above that of a hare. Here's what the government SHOULD do. Allocate, allocate, allocate. Again, not a redneck here i do care for the environment but just not during an economic crisis. I mean look at the nyse, gotta be kiddin me. Yes, we shall smarten up, but again, not at the expense of our economy, and indirectly the way i live. Once again, just a high school kid's thought, i'm probably 100% wrong blah blah blah, i'm too young blah blah blah.

[404 Not Found]

People do not want to risk foreclosure to save polar bars in the yukon, just the way it is. The average american is struggling, why burden them with a really bad-timed environmental tax/allocation of government spending. Spend the money to save MY money. Don't go save some damn arctic wolves, and the rare endangered "snowshoe hare". I would personally put my life above that of a hare. Here's what the government SHOULD do. Allocate, allocate, allocate. Again, not a redneck here i do care for the environment but just not during an economic crisis. I mean look at the nyse, gotta be kiddin me. Yes, we shall smarten up, but again, not at the expense of our economy, and indirectly the way i live. Once again, just a high school kid's thought, i'm probably 100% wrong blah blah blah, i'm too young blah blah blah.

What's odd about the economic crisis and the extreme foreclosure rates, not to leave out unemployment...it seems to be worse in some states and geographic areas of the nation than in others.

Ohio for example is a prime case for all the above reasons. Ohio has had more jobs leaving the state, as well as extreme unemployment & foreclosures for the past 8 years. What is with Ohio and the idiots that they keep electing into office; not to mention the bullshit the state pulled in the previous presidential elections, noting the mass voter fraud & tampering that has been a pivotal point as to the outcomes of the local and national elections itself!?!?

Noting from your post that the nation has to educate itself and as you use he term "Smarten itself", I would suggest that to many of the peoples living in OH do just that and leave the friggin bible home or in church...leave it out of the election! If it has to be intertwined in some manner, then let your religious congregations bail you out and not the Fed!

In regards to wasted tax dollars on the environment...I say let them dump all the raw sewage and toxins back again into the Cuyahoga River and kill off all life...you're probably too young to remember when the river itself caught on fire. All the tax dollars spent on cleaning that river and lake...there is a reason it is called the Mistake by the Lake...and it should keep that slogan...Too much money was wasted by taxpayers to clean up such environmental problems...who cares about a dead lake with no life and a river that can catch fire...it's just another enivornmental waste of money!

BTW...I am including the idiot Dem. leaders as well as the GOP when I mention OH. For some reason, OH is just a f'd up political theatre. I must admit that Minority Leader John Boehner IMHO, is a complete asshole that does not really help the State of OH and it's peoples.

OH, at least Cleveland and the surrounding areas of Lakewood, Euclid and the Avon areas will become even more desolate in the years to come. It's a shame. Cleveland is a ghost town of under 400,000 people. It soon will lose the status of a city on this path!

Lastly, If I had my way, I would prefer to save an innocent animal than a fellow human being of who was the idiot themself that ended up being financailly screwed because they needed that $800,000.00+ house and mortgage, living beyond their means to justify a lifestyle of what? F' um all that are living over their heads. This is also the banks problem too. They should fold due to the offering of such loans. The economy will work itself out.

[StarKitty]

I mean look at gas prices

I am tired of hearing Americans complain about this.

Please come live in England for a week and bring your oversized gas guzzlers with you and see if you still dislike your gas prices.

[sonlox]

look at the size of UK and look at the size of the usa.

[404 Not Found]

I am tired of hearing Americans complain about this.

Please come live in England for a week and bring your oversized gas guzzlers with you and see if you still dislike your gas prices.

I have been to the UK...many times. Public Transit there blows away any public transit here in the States.

As for Cars...I hold some of the blame on auto makers. The Ford Focus in Europe avg.'s about 20 MPG better efficiency than the Focus Ford makes in the States. Ford will not manufacture the engines it has in Europe and ship them here...kind of odd considering they could increase sales to amazing levels, yet they teeter on bankruptcy in the States.

The Auto industry can also be blamed for a decline as well as removal of certain forms of public transit in the States as well. There was a PBS special on a year or so ago that made note of how the U.S. Automakers would buy-out the public transit companies in the cities and then stifle - limit if not remove the public transit from these metro areas. This would force more car sales and it worked. This essentially backfired on us today in hindsight.

Philadelphia has more people using Public Transit in its history due to the petrol prices. It's actually been a good thing for my city. As for cities with limited to no public transit...they are screwed. We have even put bike lanes on our roadways, but in cities such as Atlanta, they really do not have such available alternate methods of transport as in other cities.

It's time to re-think the transit problems on many levels. It's a start. I personally do not want to pay the prices as you do in the UK, and we somewhat do pay a similar price when one considers diesel costs in certain areas of the States. Europe runs more autos on Diesel than the cars being fueled here in the States.

Simple solution is to get off petrol 100%

There is a car that was made in Japan called the Eliica that is 100% electric and is faster than a Porsche 911 turbo, as the track record was clocked at 0-100km/h in four seconds and a 0-160km/h in seven seconds. Proven top speed is 370km/h. . This car also had a 320KM? Range before a re-charge was necessary. Odd how the automakers still have no interest in this! Someone’s in bed with someone who is in bed with someone....

This car can solve many problems we see today...and yet why is it not making front page headlines?

I for one am not complaining about gas prices, but I am complaining that we still use gas! BTW...my `64 Porsche 356 gets better mileage than 9/10's of the crap on the road today...I can even say the same for my `65 Land Rover...that is when it's running!

[Squeezer]

Yes, we shall smarten up, but again,

Let's smarten up!

[riske]

People do not want to risk foreclosure to save polar bars in the yukon,

It's NOWHERE near as simple as that. Melting ice = higher tides, just a couple of feet of ocean height can takeaway miles and miles of land in some places. There is also methane gas in the ice, as this gets released, it heats up the planet even more, making the ice melt faster, making more methane free.. etc etc. The hotter the ocean gets, the stronger the storms.

Please come live in England for a week and bring your oversized gas guzzlers with you and see if you still dislike your gas prices.

You CANNOT compare it like that. Do you know the average cost of living in each country? do you know the average income? do you know the average distance someone has to drive to and from work? to and from store/bank etc? Come on, use your head.


Good news is solar power has had some very big breakthroughs recently (of course you havent heard about it on the news though) looking of upwards of 40% efficiency now.

[Kolar]

The Conservative Party of Canada (CPC) haven't shown themselves to be fiscal conservatives, at least not more so then the Liberals or Greens. The current CPC was born out of a merger of the Progressive Conservatives and the socially Conservative Reform/Alliance Party in 2003, some say the PCs lost a lot of influence within the merger. So at the top in the party you have a lot of people who are going to push a very right-wing social agenda first and second destroy any kind of environmental deal as their primary support lies in Western Canada (Alberta oil sands....).

It is understandable that the issue would get less attention with things happening in the US. Still working through all the bullshit the Liberal's green shift isn't terrible, they do propose cutting the income tax (as they always have as oppose to cutting the GST) and it won't have an effect on gas prices. It's shifting the tax burden to focus on an issue that should get some attention, if not by us then by Ottawa at least. Nationally the Liberals are losing a lot of support to the NDP and Greens because they see the Leader of the party Stephane Dion as being weak.

[Nycle]

I am tired of hearing Americans complain about this.

Please come live in England for a week and bring your oversized gas guzzlers with you and see if you still dislike your gas prices.

404 has some good points. I go to the States every year and one of the first things you notice is how car-centric American infrastructure is and how long distances between cities or even within them can be. I drove 1,5 hours every time without seeing a thing, just to get to another part of my family. Over here I'd be out of the country by then. So you'll have to admit drawing comparisons between England/Europe and America is not really fair.

I think it's due to these and other reasons that public transport in America never really had a chance to develop up to high quality standards (except for some metropolitan networks), seeing as everyone has a car so there's really no need to. Maybe it's due to cultural differences too, individualism causing people not wanting to "share" their means of transport with other people. I remember last summer this posed kind of a problem for me, when I was refused a car rental at the airport for being too young and my travel companion didn't have a credit card in her name which caused me to slightly panic when I still had a 150 mile journey ahead of me. When I asked someone at an information desk how I would go about getting to Ft. Wayne from Indy by means of public transportation, she acted surprised and said that there was no obvious and easy way, kinda what I expected.

[paradise!]

[QUOTE=Squeezer;662794
Let's smarten up![/QUOTE]

what do you contribute to this? You're a complete moron, trying so hard for ph's and dumbass vykromond's approval of "LULZ NICE KONGING, HIGH FIVE, COMPLETE PWND THAT THREAd DIDNTCHA SQUEEZER."

Back to this thread, the public transportation in ohio is basically non-existent. You have in a populated town maybe 1 bus within a 5 mile radius. The bus comes maybe twice a day. U.S. Gov't pretty much begs people to drive cars. I have been to Toronto and i must say, public transportation there is wayy better than anything here. I mean look you've got cable cars, buses, subways. I mean what the fuck in most areas in most states you're lucky to get a bus stop within 5 miles of your destination. I mean they just swing by some extremely populated area and drops people to another extremely populated area. Pretty gay. Again, no reason for the Brits to complain with having cars, buses, cable cars, subways, and probably alot of other types of trans. I'm pretty sure in our town of 4,000 there is 1 bus stop within maybe 6-7 miles. Just the way it is.

U.S. Gov has never really given the people a chance to try a GOOD public transit system. People here need to get their fatass elephant asses out of that SUV and take a brisk walk to a nearby bus/cable car. I mean what the hell, they are getting exercise AND they are saving money. I remember in Canada me and my parents always used to walk places. But here in the U.S., there are BARELY any sidewalks, if there are they are the most crooked, dun-give-a-shit sidewalks with grass growing out of othem. Barely anyone bikes, haven't seen a single person rollerblading since the early 2000s, and you only ride a bus if you can't afford a car, that's the mindset here. Haha and the only people that exersise are the ones who are the skinniest. Paranoid about gaining an ounce off that nutri-grain bar.

[Doc Flabby]

I have been to the UK...many times. Public Transit there blows away any public transit here in the States.

The irony is the UK(excluding London) has a terrible public transport system by European standards.

Japan called the Eliica that is 100% electric and is faster than a Porsche 911 turbo, as the track record was clocked at 0-100km/h in four seconds and a 0-160km/h in seven seconds. Proven top speed is 370km/h. . This car also had a 320KM? Range before a re-charge was necessary. Odd how the automakers still have no interest in this! Someone’s in bed with someone who is in bed with someone....

Its like how the cigerette companies paided millions to film studios in the 40s,50s and 60s to feature smoking in their films. Oil companies are paying car manufacturers not to produce electic cars or more efficent engines.

However that particular truth won't come out for many years.

[Galleleo]

First off all, don't kill the polar bears. Polar bears are awesome, it would be a damn big shame if they became extinct.

Second off all, as Riske already mentioned, the North Pole is harbouring a methane field that, if released into the atmosphere, will do more damage to it alone than any of us have done over the past 50 years. Basically, if that methane field gets out, we are fucked.