so the bailout bill is now 451 pages long

[DankNuggets]

Man this is so screwed. All the politicians will be happy that wallstreet is saved. They couldn't give a rat's ass about their constituents who are losing their houses.

This bill does nothing to help those who are facing forclosure. At the very least, it provides a means that COULD be used to help them out. The clause allowing the gov't to buy up mortgages COULD allow them to refinance all the ARMs into fixed rate, long term mortgages that would be less likely to fail all at once. OR, they could not do anything at all, and reserve that power to abuse in the future.

One things for sure: Barak Obama, if elected, would supposedly use that power gained from this bill to do exactly that and ease the troubles of those about to lose their houses. I say this after reading Jessie Jackson Jr.'s commentary on cnn.com where he explains why he didn't and wouldn't vote for the bail-out. Then, as I go back on later, it has the "breaking news" story about the bill passing, and throws in a line saying that even JJ JR voted or it. I was really wondering how he could contradict himself in one day like that, but then it put that quip in there about how Obama assured him that he would use that power to do what Congress didn't -- bail out the Americans who are suffering.

[Jerome Scuggs]

dank- 1st, sadly, wallstreet won't be saved

2nd- you know, if they wanted too - for less than 700 billion, congress could pay off every defaulted home mortgage. think about that when they say they claim they want to help the american people.

why don't they? because then it would be bleedingly obvious that America's financial system - fractional-reserve banking - is merely a sham to give a shred of legitimacy to what is little more than a glorified printing press.

[phata$$]

[gran guerrero]

so...revolution?

[Jerome Scuggs]

it's official

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

america is no longer a democracy. it is no longer free. it can no longer be called a "free market" system - if it could ever be called such.

all else aside, it's when a country begins to interfere with the economy of its people that rights truly and ultimately begin to disappear.

in other news, the price of oil has fallen below $100 a barrel, for the first time in god-knows-how-long. of course - the oil companies are silent. the people complaining are places like Venezuela - who paid for all of their "Welfare" with the profits they raked from oil, all the while blaming the private companies for "unfairly" raising prices.

i now have to make a serious choice. i might have to drop out of school. the past three years, i've been studying to become an english teacher, or an economist - but who will pay my wages? who will need an economist?

i like to think i've been more or less correct about things, but now i have to actually make a serious life decision.

because if i'm correct - then i will need to drop out, and enroll in a vocational school a.s.a.p. because the first thing that will happen is that people, being on tighter budgets, will not be so quick to replace any broken goods/products, they will see if they could repair it for a cheaper price. becoming a handy-man would virtually guarantee employment in today's techno-filled market.

or, i can say fuck it all, i was wrong, the government's bailout will work. and i can finish college and hope that there will be a job waiting for me on the other side of the next year or two. listen to everyone who says this recession will be short and sweet and in a few years it'll be as if nothing ever happened.

i have no idea what the next two years will bring. i have no idea what the government will do to save what I think is a rapidly sinking boat.

thanks to the government, i now have no idea of what my future should be. far from removing uncertainty, they have only made even the most basic decisions facing me infinitely more complicated, as well as filled me with more self-doubt than i've ever felt my entire fucking life.

of course, this is all assuming i even make enough money to afford either option. my manager has been trying to buy the coffeeshop from its owners, but can't get a loan. excellent.

[Veloce]

I'm out of school in two years too so I hear your worries.

Its very likely that I will have trouble getting a job after college and I won't be able to get a loan probably either to go to graduate school.

As far as what my choices will be or what I'm considering doing, I'm thinking of joining the peace corp or teaching english in a foreign country. This way I can maybe learn another language and build up my resume for when things are better. Maybe I can just continue working a low end job and eventually have enough to buy something big, after all house prices are at an all-time low and buying a house would be a great step toward the future cause the values will surely go up again.

[Veloce]

zee come jd

[TagMor]

revolution is now legally "terrorism"... so good luck with that

[Pandagirl!]

I'm majoring in actuarial science and economics too, so fuck. Maybe I should add another major, since there's still time cuz I'm a freshman. Then when I'm done in 2012 I can have more options if the economy is still all messed up....

[Jerome Scuggs]

Sec. 101: Extension of alternative minimum tax relief for nonrefundable personal credits.
Sec. 102: Extension of increased alternative minimum tax exemption amount.
Sec. 201: Deduction for state and local sales taxes.
Sec. 202: Deduction of qualified tuition and related expenses.
Sec. 203: Deduction for certain expenses of elementary and secondary school teachers.
Sec. 204: Additional standard deduction for real property taxes for nonitemizers.
Sec. 205: Tax-free distributions from individual retirement plans for charitable purposes.
Sec. 304: Extension of look-thru rule for related controlled foreign corporations.
Sec. 305: Extension of 15-year straight-line cost recovery for qualified leasehold improvements and qualified restaurant improvements; 15-year straight-line cost recovery for certain improvements to retail space.
Sec. 307: Basis adjustment to stock of S corporations making charitable contributions of property.
Sec. 308: Increase in limit on cover over of rum excise tax to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.
Sec. 309: Extension of economic development credit for American Samoa.
Sec. 310: Extension of mine rescue team training credit.
Sec. 311: Extension of election to expense advanced mine safety equipment.
Sec. 312: Deduction allowable with respect to income attributable to domestic production activities in Puerto Rico.
Sec. 314: Indian employment credit.
Sec. 315: Accelerated depreciation for business property on Indian reservations.
Sec. 316: Railroad track maintenance.
Sec. 317: Seven-year cost recovery period for motorsports racing track facility.
Sec. 318: Expensing of environmental remediation costs.
Sec. 319: Extension of work opportunity tax credit for Hurricane Katrina employees.
Sec. 320: Extension of increased rehabilitation credit for structures in the Gulf Opportunity Zone.
Sec. 321: Enhanced deduction for qualified computer contributions.
Sec. 322: Tax incentives for investment in the District of Columbia.
Sec. 323: Enhanced charitable deductions for contributions of food inventory.
Sec. 324: Extension of enhanced charitable deduction for contributions of book inventory.
Sec. 325: Extension and modification of duty suspension on wool products; wool research fund; wool duty refunds.
Sec. 401: Permanent authority for undercover operations [as related to tax provisions].
Sec. 402: Permanent authority for disclosure of information relating to terrorist activities [as related to tax provisions].
Sec. 501: $8,500 income threshold used to calculate refundable portion of child tax credit.
Sec. 502: Provisions related to film and television productions.
Sec. 503: Exemption from excise tax for certain wooden arrows designed for use by children.
Sec. 504: Income averaging for amounts received in connection with the Exxon Valdez litigation.
Sec. 505: Certain farming business machinery and equipment treated as five-year property.
Sec. 506: Modification of penalty on understatement of taxpayer’s liability by tax return preparer.
Sec. 601: Secure rural schools and community self-determination program.
Sec. 602: Transfer to abandoned mine reclamation fund.
Sec. 702: Temporary tax relief for areas damaged by 2008 Midwestern severe storms, tornados and flooding.
Sec. 704: Temporary tax-exempt bond financing and low-income housing tax relief for areas.
Sec. 709: Waiver of certain mortgage revenue bond requirements following federally declared disasters.
Sec. 710: Special depreciation allowance for qualified disaster property.
Sec. 711: Increased expensing for qualified disaster assistance property.

I am playing a game called "guess who's voting yes", I think the Katrina recovery money is what got Louisiana's vote

[castromarx]

Stay in school. If finding a job in your field doesn't pan out you can always sell drugs.

[TagMor]

yeh drugs will be a boom market..

[Galleleo]

I seriously think you are way to pessimistic about things Jerome. Sure the economy is in the shitter right now, I mean its obvious (and lets not forget one of the main causes of this problem, which would be your free market. I mean, companies saw the dollar signs by selling all kinds of loans to people who couldn't afford these loans to begin with. And the people who couldn't afford these loans took them anyway because all the companies told them they should and everything would be fine). But things will bounce back eventually, this is really nothing more than the economy doing what the economy does, ups and downs, sometimes it worse.

I am not saying no one has to worry at all, obviously people are going to have problems, needing to sell their house, being unemployed, etc. And its going to be tough times, but the economy will bounce back eventually. It always does. Besides, if you are studying English, teachers are always needed (or at least that is the case in the Netherlands).

[Jerome Scuggs]

I seriously think you are way to pessimistic about things Jerome. Sure the economy is in the shitter right now, I mean its obvious (and lets not forget one of the main causes of this problem, which would be your free market. I mean, companies saw the dollar signs by selling all kinds of loans to people who couldn't afford these loans to begin with. And the people who couldn't afford these loans took them anyway because all the companies told them they should and everything would be fine).

Do you really, really think that it is because of "the free market"? I've written a mini-novel on the hundreds of causes, none of them free market. So - tell me, exactly, how the "free market" caused it.

I have a feeling you will fall short, because the explanation you just gave - is absolutely wrong. In a sense - yes. Banks did make way too many risky loans. If they fail, then it's good - that means morons are no longer making the loans around here.

But most of these banks have been around for at least 50-100 years. They have never made such bad loans. Such horrible risks. Now - what could have possibly changed? When or why did everyone go stupid? The free market hasn't changed, people do business like they do business. Now - regulations and laws, they have indeed changed. Perhaps you should look there.

Homework: go look up all the laws on banking. Tell me how many laws and regulations there are. Then go look up the definition of a "Free market". Get back to me on this.

But things will bounce back eventually, this is really nothing more than the economy doing what the economy does, ups and downs, sometimes it worse.

The business cycle is caused by centralized banking and the State monopoly on currency.

You're taking an economics class? Explain how where macroeconomics accounts for the business cycle and show how your business cycle model works on a macroeconomic level. The two are not separate - they explain different parts of the exact same market, and so integrating them shouldn't be hard - if you're right.

but the economy will bounce back eventually. It always does.

Is that what socialists rest all of their faith on? That the free market will continue to operate and produce untold wealth, no matter how much they strangle it?

Quite frankly, that's perverse. But it provides insight into why lawmakers do what they do.

[Vihta]

Next 0-20 years will be interesting times indeed. Problem of current economy is that it is based on growing by some % each year. The funny thing about exponential growth is that it doesn't matter what the % is, it WILL simply explode into near vertical state of increase at some point. Obviously we live in a bounded world and cannot physically keep up with that. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that the current economy model is simply not sustainable, maybe this current crisis will make it obvious or maybe it will keep up for a while still... we'll find out.

I highly recommend watching http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse to get some food for thought.

Personally I'm happy I changed my major to Power Engineering two years ago, we will always need electricity unless modern society ceases to exist.