Big Three Bailout- Will you be affected?

[Liquid Blue]

So if the Big Three (GM, Ford, Chrysler) don't get their bailout package and go bankrupt (we're talking chapter 11 -->completely out of business), will you be affected? Do you know anyone that would be affected?

Just to let you know if the three companies file for bankruptcy and can't get back on their feet again, that's a little under 2 million american jobs gone- from the factories to the dealerships. There's probably another 1.6 million or so indirectly tied that could be lost also.

****EDIT****-- Also forgot, anyone affected by DHL shutting down all USA locations? Ohio got raped since it was mostly based there in the US- Paradise or Panda, have you two heard anything about it?

[HateTheFake]

gm should have been smarter, in a time of gas increases. They have rights to one of the most profitable vehicles. Geo. These little cars got 60 miles to the gallon and could be bought brand new 5000 dollars. They had every opportunity to use this design. They would have made a killing. Instead they let companies like honda and toyota destroy then with eco/fuel friendly vehicles.

[404 Not Found]

3 Million Jobs that are represented by the UAW Union. The fact that U.S. made Honda, BMW & Toyotas are non union does not mean that these companies do not take care of their employee’s. It’s odd that these non union companies offer the same if not better benefits to the employee’s as well as better working conditions. Is the UAW partially to blame for the ridiculous pay scales and retirement packages they have contracted as a representative of the employee?

I find it odd though that GM is having problems competing in the industry, since they did have a production car in CA to battle emission laws that was battery operated in the 80’s and was only available by lease, not to leave this out, but it was a nice looking car design wise which is odd for GM. The company had purchased back these cars from their leases and they vanished after having a somewhat large demand. Perhaps the Auto Companies in the U.S. are in bed with Big Oil Companies? They had the foundations to go this route 2 decades ago and pulled the plug. Looking back at this, the U.S. Auto Makers could have been on top of the Auto world so to say, but something seems to have been reaching into their pockets that changed their minds and direction for the industry. The blame by GM was on costs and parts. Now today, we have the advertisement for the Chevy Volt, odd thing is that the Volt is not even in production yet and possibly may not be, but they push advertising at millions of dollars on something that is not and possibly will never be available. Talk about millions on wasted advertisements.

From what I have read in researching Honda, they are non union but do offer a pension plan and benefits that rival if not surpass the Big 3. Honda has not had any layoffs and the wages are increasing every 6 months. They have proven that they are a stable and dependable company over the past decades and if you look at used cars pricing, the Honda does not depreciate as do the Big 3 autos once you drive it out of the dealership. That speaks for itself on quality as well as demand. Why is it that the Big 3 auto’s not reflecting the same in comparison?

Despite the call for a bailout for the Big 3, of which has been done too many times prior with no results showing from our tax payer handout, perhaps more time should be directed towards something that would benefit the country in a greater way especially if only this much effort and attention could be applied in getting a raise for teachers, police, firemen, etc.

Most of the Big 3 Autoworkers are paid more than our Police and Firemen, not to leave out the ridiculous pensions 95% of the nation’s workers do not have available & yet they are still giving these out. Perhaps the problem is in the UAW representing these workers. Perhaps it’s the UAW that has caused so much of the domestic auto industry problems that we have seen the trend of the Big 3 move out of the U.S. due to the pay scale and pensions? All of that on top of the fact I think they have some of the ugliest cars on the market. They do know how to make a good work truck and I will give them that, but as far as a daily driver and what the peoples of this nation would rather drive, they do not come close IMHO. I chalk that up to my Art School background and the fact that many of our students in the I.D. dept became designers for the Auto Industry, most of which passed on working for the Big 3 to work for Honda, Nissan & Toyota back in the early-mid 80’s…and why? Because they offered better pay and benefits.
One could point their fingers at many areas of fault with the Big 3, and they have received bailouts in the past with nothing to show for this.

So if my family business of 48 years starts to slump will the government step in and pay my pension and bail out my families manufacturing business? Not on your life! So why should my tax dollars bail out this industry when they have proven again and again in the past decades and shown they can’t make a domestic car that people will want as well as meet the environmental factors of emissions and efficient gas mileage. I just do not want a bailout that is aimed at a company that will continue on the spiraling downward path it has been on for the past 3 decades.
So what is to be done? Throw money at them that we do not have and hope that they turn it around and save 3 million jobs? Or do as we did in the 70’ – 80’s with steel plants and let them close. Would the bailout they are asking for the auto industry worked per say if we had done so for the Steel Industry or even the Textile industry of which this nation was once dependent upon?

It will not effect me one bit and personally I think that perhaps it's time for the Dinosaur Big 3 to go down and make room for innovation and a new generation of the Auto industry. The Big 3 made their bed and ignored the warning signs for the past 3 decades that has led them to this point.

This is a great topic of debate though!

[Squeezer]

My taxes will rise. Obama will have more shit to deal with before getting to health care.

That's about it. There aren't many auto plants in the Seattle area (but if Boeing loses govt. contracts, packs up and moves out we're fucked) and I don't drive anywhere or have any intention of living in a place for the next few years that requires me to drive everywhere. My family never had that, "buy American" loyalty and my mother's 2003 civic is still kicking.

[Vehicle]

Fuck the Big 3, fuck em fuck em fuck em.

I'm so tired of this bull shit. 404 hit the nail on the head and it boils down to a few things. We're getting owned by foreign car makers as far as mpg, and the recent economic downturn will push people towards more fuel efficient cars. GM spent like 10 years shoving SUVs and trucks down every God damn American's throat and now that people actually give a shit that their car needs to be refueled every 45 miles GM's like "what the fuck, you mean you guys didn't actually NEED a 17 ft long truck in suburban New Jersey? Shocking." No, it isn't. Shut the fuck up and file for bankruptcy because you suck as a business. The unions also need to sit the fuck down. These people are the highest paid, both salary and benefits wise, unskilled laborerers in the country. The only reason is because there are so fucking many of them, and they vote. Do I feel bad that you're going to lose your job? Yes, I genuinely do. But I also don't feel like paying your salary with my taxes because your bosses bosses bosses boss is a fucking moron. I didn't do it. Our country has been moving away from actual industry for how many fucking years now? Did you not see the writing on the wall? Did you not have enough time in the past 20 years that you've been building cars to get a fucking associates degree? That isn't my fault either you shit head, get a job at McDonalds. Overall, I'm tired of all this government bailout bullshit. If the bank bailout is any evidence of what the private sector will do with government funds why the fuck are we even considering another one? It's fucking ludacris. 5 years from now the Big 3 will be bitching and moaning yet again that they're about to go bankrupt. Why? Because foreign cars are cheaper, more reliable and more economical. Maybe if you weren't feeding into the consumer economy for the past 20 years and turning a blind eye to the failing economy than you would have realized that PEOPLE DON'T WANT A FUCKING H2 ANYMORE.

And, as a note, I deliberately didn't put any paragraph breaks in there because I don't actually expect anyone to read what I wrote. It's all true, but it's also my opinion and I don't feel like sourcing it all for you to back up my points. I'd rather write stream of consciousness in an effort to not shoot myself in the face.

[Money]

seeing how you're a vehicle you may be affected

[Money]

the auto industry has been going down for a while...why do you think everyone in Michigan started moving to Texas?...DUH

true story

[Izor]

Has anyone brought up that part of the reason that the big 3 are sucking is that the labor unions that provide them with employees absolutely rape the companies? Obama will not fix that, but its a huge problem

Also, although they are slowly getting there, they have yet to produce highly fuel efficient cars. Honda's Fit, Nissan's Versa, and Toyota's Yaris are the best in those regards right now I believe while being very affordable (sorry prius). While the H2 isnt being advertised so much like Vehicle thinks, US automakers just havent gotten vehicles to where they need to be. Ford is bringing over the fiesta or something in 2010 from their european line I believe so they might be able to compete...

Lastly, ford/gm/chrysler all have a legacy in this country of being unreliable (found on road dead). In my family's personal experience, I can say that that has been true with the Pontiac my brother had. My dad has had 2 cars the entire time I've been alive though, both ford escorts. Guess it depends person to person and what kind of care they take of the car. If you treat any car like shit it wont last too long.

[Bioture]

It will not effect me one bit and personally I think that perhaps it's time for the Dinosaur Big 3 to go down and make room for innovation and a new generation of the Auto industry. The Big 3 made their bed and ignored the warning signs for the past 3 decades that has led them to this point.

My thoughts were summed up in this.

I do sympathize with the workers however... I've been to detroit as a missionary and the damage done there is pretty severe.

[404 Not Found]

Has anyone brought up that part of the reason that the big 3 are sucking is that the labor unions that provide them with employees absolutely rape the companies? Obama will not fix that, but its a huge problem

Also, although they are slowly getting there, they have yet to produce highly fuel efficient cars. Honda's Fit, Nissan's Versa, and Toyota's Yaris are the best in those regards right now I believe while being very affordable (sorry prius). While the H2 isnt being advertised so much like Vehicle thinks, US automakers just havent gotten vehicles to where they need to be. Ford is bringing over the fiesta or something in 2010 from their european line I believe so they might be able to compete...

Lastly, ford/gm/chrysler all have a legacy in this country of being unreliable (found on road dead). In my family's personal experience, I can say that that has been true with the Pontiac my brother had. My dad has had 2 cars the entire time I've been alive though, both ford escorts. Guess it depends person to person and what kind of care they take of the car. If you treat any car like shit it wont last too long.

Great point on the Union Izor. My families business was once a Union shop and we broke the union here. Turns out that the Allied Painters Union of which once represented the workers here had taken their union dues over the decades and the Union rep. kept all the money and moved to the Cayman Islands...this was over 10 years ago & I had heard he died shortly after he moved, but what a fiasco! The employee's at that point decided to break the union and now have better health coverage and retirement benefits than they did with that shit Union backing them.
The Ford Escort was a decent economy car and I am still puzzled as to why Ford stopped making Them.

I had heard about the Focus being imported in 2010 and then read a disclaimer by Ford saying the costs to import the engines would not be effective and profitable? So who knows what the hell Ford is gonna do? The L.A. Car Show coming up should be interesting, especially since GM has decided not to show anything at the US car shows this year...I wonder why?

[404 Not Found]

My thoughts were summed up in this.

I do sympathize with the workers however... I've been to detroit as a missionary and the damage done there is pretty severe.

The damage is severe, but did you ever travel through Pittsburgh or Cleveland, specifically the Steel Mill areas? They are changed now, but back in the late 70's early 80's it was a different city. Cleveland is a ghost town for the most today, but Pittsburg revitalized itself and was a top city to move and live in a few yrs back.

Lawrence and Lowell Massachusettes are dive towns today, but at one time had been the backbone of the economy when we relied on our textile industries.

This will not be the first or last time a city or urban area will be effected by such changes in industries, especially when most of the industries in the U.S. are being relocated to other countries of which enviromental concerns, labor rites and fair pay do not come into question.

There are ups and downs for becoming World Interdependent.

[Zeebu]

thank you igno

[Pandagirl!]

****EDIT****-- Also forgot, anyone affected by DHL shutting down all USA locations? Ohio got raped since it was mostly based there in the US- Paradise or Panda, have you two heard anything about it?

I haven't heard anything about it - since I'm living in a dorm on campus I'm basically in a bubble with no contact from the outside world

[Epinephrine]

The Canadian government is being pressured to do something as well, because believe it or not, Ontario produces more cars than Michigan. It's times like these that I'm a bit relieved that the Conservatives are running the country, because at the very least they have the least impetus to cave into bailout demands and will likely give the last amount of money at the end. I absolutely do not want my tax dollars to pay for failing businesses.

[Izor]

Well we all agree a bailout will only be a bandaid fix to the underlying problems. And my own personal opinion is that Obama will not fix them, as democrats tend to favor unions, and unions are what really kill the profitability of the car industry. Not that that is the only problem though like I've said in the past. We would almost need a cultural change and a decent line of cars to fix it.

404, the focus replaced the escort as their economy car, but now that doesnt even come in the hatchback my dad always got. I dont know what he'll end up getting since his current car is going on 14 years old and he would like to have a hatchback to transport the dogs in when he goes on a walk...