The Doha Round

[Veloce]

In 3 weeks I have paper due that needs to discuss the reasons and future implications of the collapse of the Doha Round. Any economic junkies out there have any input on the subject? Anything help comments/discussion are appreciated. Does anyone know good sources to find information on the subject? I've been reading through articles written by The Economist. I need reliable sources.

[Nycle]

I'm not extremely acquainted with the subject, so I'll just pass on my general knowledge on this:

The Doha round is basically a talk shop between a lot of countries in the world with the end goal being to lower or eliminate barriers that currently exist in world trade (chiefly agricultural and industrial). The most contentious issue is probably the protectionist policies that are being pursued by the more developed nations such as the US, EU and Japan, which prevent poorer countries from gaining easy access to the respective markets.

Some believe that the best possible "aid" the developed world can give to the developing world is not development aid in the sense of money transfers, but aid in the form of opening up their markets so that people in poorer countries can compete with those in developed nations in a sustainable way: a way that is a lot harder to abuse by corrupted people who use development aid as it is now for other purposes than what it was meant for. The collapse of the Doha round means that as of yet no framework has been laid out for this to happen, which means that developing countries are, in a sense, structurally kept out of possibilities for them to create their own wealth. The West would rather keep that within its own borders, and will probably continue to give development "aid" to make it all right.

[Veloce]

I'm under the impression that the collapse of the debate was mainly due to their discussion over in the agricultural sector.

Take the US for example, currently we are subsidizing our farm industry (subsidies are a form of protectionism) by pushing for agricultural exports. Now the problem is that these domestic farmers don't want to export because the food prices here in the US are so high so they would rather sell domestically, so what the US government says hey, you sell abroad, and we'll pay you the difference between the domestic price and what you sell at, so basically these US farmers can undercut any market and cripple other countries' agricultural sector by selling so cheap, yet of course they still make out fine because they are receiving the difference. Now I'm mainly confused as to where this plays into the debates. I've heard the EU is subsidizing their agricultural industry to some extent, I mean who can blame them? - any country doesn't want to be reliant on foreign food imports.

But how does this all play into the collapse? What exactly were they disagreeing over with respect to agriculture? I'm sure that foreign nations were upset at these dumping acts by the US.

I'm definitely missing some pieces to the whole story...

[Jerome Scuggs]

about all the doha rounds are good for is being a good example of how the current market is far from free. it's a noble attempt, but when it comes down to it, noone ever wants to wilingly give up their monopolies and protectionism.

given the recent financial crisis and the calls worldwide for a "new capitalism", more specifically a new financial system a la bretton woods, i think the WTO might become relevant - especially if there is some new international system created which forces international compliance.

as for the recent doha talks failing, it's nothing to be to particularly concerned about, imo. the world trade organization in its current form is pretty useless. these talks failing have less impact than, say, a breakdown of a NAFTA trade talk. it's hard to imagine anything significant would have come out of the talks, and once again given the recent financial crisis, any agreements made would probably be put immediately at risk, as most countries right now are locking down and batting the hatches.

if anything, the breakdown of the talks merely represents the continuation, if not rise of, the new wave of protectionism that has been progressively increasing since the turn of the 20th century. this, in turn, is what has been really fucking over the developing nations, which is why the doha rounds were initially conceived of. because they were not successful, the negative effects of these trade policies could continue to prevent developing nations from, well, developing.

heh, and they call it free trade.

[Nycle]

I've heard the EU is subsidizing their agricultural industry to some extent, I mean who can blame them? - any country doesn't want to be reliant on foreign food imports.

The EU is extremely protective of its agricultural industry, to the extent that the average dairy cow receives about $2,5 dollars a day under the hotly debated CAP, which is more than what half of the world population earns, although it has been more willing to 'open up' its market than the US. You can say this is hypocritical because you can't really call yourself an entity commited to fighting poverty while domestically buying up overproduced stocks of butter, milk, beef and whatnot at guaranteed minimum prices only to dump them later while a lot of people in the rest of the world are almost dying of starvation. See this in the light of the recent food 'crisis' (which wasn't much of a crisis for the West as it was for Africa for example) and you'll see the hypocrisy behind it even more.

But how does this all play into the collapse? What exactly were they disagreeing over with respect to agriculture? I'm sure that foreign nations were upset at these dumping acts by the US.

I'm definitely missing some pieces to the whole story...

From http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0638a320-5...077b07658.html:

Peter Mandelson, European Union trade commissioner, said: ”I realise that you will ask who is to blame for this failure. The answer of course is that it is a collective failure.”

But Mr Mandelson said that the agriculture talks had been harmed by the five-year programme of agricultural subsidies recently passed by the US Congress, which he said was ”one of the most reactionary farm bills in the history of the US”, though he did give credit to President George W.Bush for attempting to veto the bill.

Several ministers said the issue on which the talks had foundered – a mechanism allowing countries such as India and China to protect farmers from surges in imports – was a relatively small part of the talks, and there had been good progress in issues such as the long-running dispute over banana imports to the EU.

This is of course highly subjective, there isn't a definitive answer, since all parties in the world are likely to blame everyone but themselves.

[Jerome Scuggs]

speaking of starvation, did you know: that FDR paid farmers to burn their crops, which drove up food prices, which helped the farmers at the expense of other, less important american lives?

that guy was a savior, i can see why politicians love to speak of him

[Veloce]

Jerome I know you have some strong and cynical views on the subject but I'm really looking for some "bridging" view points (that'll help me get a focus on this paper) on why developing nations and the EU/US can't come to an agreement in the agricultural sector. :turned:

Nycle, how influential is the CAP on agricultural negotiations for the Doha Round? In other words, do the ideas and focuses of the CAP greatly determine the EU negotiating body at the talks?

[Jerome Scuggs]

http://mises.org/journals/scholar/adrianus2.pdf

[Veloce]

another man with an agenda I see.

[Nycle]

Jerome I know you have some strong and cynical views on the subject but I'm really looking for some "bridging" view points (that'll help me get a focus on this paper) on why developing nations and the EU/US can't come to an agreement in the agricultural sector. :turned:

Nycle, how influential is the CAP on agricultural negotiations for the Doha Round? In other words, do the ideas and focuses of the CAP greatly determine the EU negotiating body at the talks?

Well, if you focus on the subject of agricultural trade then yea, the CAP is _the_ thing that shapes the general negotiating body because it's the chief instrument for controlling agricultural policy and subsidies which the Doha round, among other things, aims to diminish. The CAP is really just a remnant from the years following WW2, which saw massive food shortages and hunger throughout Europe, and the CAP was basically formed to prevent that from happening again and to stop the massive exodus from the countryside to the urban area's where the post-war economic boom was going on (thereby retaining 'food sovereignty'). This just doesn't apply anymore in a modern context, but countries who benefit massively from the CAP, such as France, Greece and Poland will try to undermine plans for supporting the ongoing trend of watering down the system.

Here's an interesting article about the French trying to retain the status quo, with references to Doha.

[Jerome Scuggs]

another man with an agenda I see.

find me a man with no agenda and i'll show you my secret flying pig!

in the paper he pretty much explains exactly why countries don't reach agreements. though he doesn't talk about the failures within the context of the Doha round, he pretty much builds a solid argument. especially in his focus on 'food sovereignty', which nycle mentions.

he might have an agenda, but he also has a solid case. i don't see how the former is a bad thing if the latter holds. failing that, it's still full of alot of very relevant information and ideas, as well as sources.

[Veloce]

Nycle

I'm progressing very well through my paper I feel. I'd like to now discuss some of the underlying motives that shape the policies of the major players (US, EU, China, India). Certainly, the CAP will be my paragraph on the influence of EU policy. Google sometimes just doesn't quite cut it when looking for information on specific topics. IF at all possible, could you refer me to any specific pages or general sites on CAP influence in overall or Doha Round-specific agricultural policy. I'll be in the library for the next week so I won't be heart broken if you can't help!

[Nycle]

Maybe these can help you a little:

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/html/129092.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/issues/new...a/index_en.htm

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...02169/abstract (available online through most university/college libraries or proxys, let me know if you encounter problems)

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/issues/sec...i/index_en.htm

The articles are slightly outdated in light of the recent collapse, but they could provide you with a theoretical background on why the recent stuff happened. Good luck on your paper.