Man one step closer to God?

[Izor]

agnostic*

Basically what gran is trying to say is that because I reject the big bang theory, I must be dumb and close minded because it would shatter the belief in the God I dont know is there. That's very cool, but I'm one of the most open minded people on this topic. Growing up through school, you dont learn about religion cause of good ol separation of state, and my family never went to church, so obviously what I learned was to be an atheist by learning about the theory of evolution and the big bang theory, and accepting it as fact because it was taught to me in the classroom. Later on in life after high school, I started reading up on some of this because I'm very curious about it. As much as I always believed that God was our way of explaining what science couldnt, theres just some fundamental things I cant get over, aka what created any matter in the first place. Your big bang theory offers no explanation for this and it never will. When I say 'you or I will never understand this' I say that because it truly is over our heads. People that are true geniuses dont understand it after devoting their whole lives to it. I have resigned myself to this. It's really very easy to act educated on the subject here on forums, where you can pull up another browser and google to research the topic as you're posting, but if we were to have an actual conversation you'd be lost I'm sure. For instance if I were to ask you if since the big bang created elements such as hydrogen and helium, where all the denser elements come from and how something as complex as DNA came to be from nothing, you wouldnt have an answer off the top of your head. It's something scientists cant even try to explain now.

"No one really knows where or how DNA was oringinaly formed. It came from RNA, but where did RNA come from. The odds of a molecule, as complex as a DNA molecule, forming in the natural world is 1 chance in 10^40,000."

I dont know how someone on wikianswers came up with this or if its even true, but its accurate in that the odds would be astronomical of something like this happening and even assuming your big bang was correct in the creation of the universe, how would something as complex as DNA come to exist? Everything has to be so perfect for life to be created. EVERYTHING. From gravity to climate to the planet having water to cellular structure. If the theory of evolution held true, how could something as complex as a flagellum ever come into existence? There are over 40 proteins in the flagellum, and without any of the parts being in the right place, the whole thing is useless. How would something so complex 'naturally' evolve when it would require several very useless parts for a long period of time? Theres just too much we cannot understand. I'm open to hearing from an actual scientist how they think these things have occured, but unless I see some hard evidence I dont think any of us will ever truly know.

[Exalt]

But do you know what, truth be told. I don't expect izor, nor folks like you exalt and probably the rest of the quicksand crew to actually give any attention to things they are not going to accept cause of some mental damn they put up for themselves. No one here is going to respond to his or your stupid blabbering (or will give up later on cause there's really no point in arguing with a wall). The video is there if you want a response.

The real point you just said here is it is not Quicksand or their players who have the mental dam, but the players like you who think they know it all and refuse to listen to anyone else's opinions, and you judge them as having mental dams themselves.

Respect everyone's opinions and everyone gets along. Automatically bias a person based on a SQUAD in a 2d space game is insane.

I made a sarcastic joke and you write off an entire squad of people. Good call there.

Truth be told, Izor is an athiest himself, he just doesn't apparently believe in the Big Bang or pretty much all the other hyped-up bullshit stories you guys create in your minds. He is probably more of a realist than all of us.

None of you are closer to God, and discovering RNA does not mean you can create life or change it into DNA. It's probably a big step in the right direction for science, but I don't see it ever happening the way you all perceive it. None of you can create life except through procreation. Sorry.

[gran guerrero]

yes that one video explains to the whole world that they are right and everyone else is wrong, because clearly youtube is the answer to all of life's questions

I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say you probably haven't even clicked the link, or just looked at the title and X'd out of there.

Seriously, before you make some grandeur assumptions of what the material is, look at it first then allow your thought process to act (I.e. look before you leap)

oh and youtube doesn't put videos up, people put videos up on youtube, so hence, that's a person talking there, not a website.

But do you know what, truth be told. I don't expect izor, nor folks like you exalt and probably the rest of the quicksand crew to actually give any attention to things they are not going to accept cause of some mental damn they put up for themselves. No one here is going to respond to his or your stupid blabbering (or will give up later on cause there's really no point in arguing with a wall). The video is there if you want a response.

[Exalt]

Here's a 10 minute video with your argument izor, it's got pictures, animation and whatnot. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h9XntsSEro

yes that one video explains to the whole world that they are right and everyone else is wrong, because clearly youtube is the answer to all of life's questions

[gran guerrero]

Here's a 10 minute video with your argument izor, it's got pictures, animation and whatnot. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h9XntsSEro

[Izor]

whats there not to understand about it...the universe started out as infinitely dense and then began expanding for no reason offering no explanation as to what put the whole universe there in the first place or what would cause it all to start expanding...just that it started expanding one day on a whim. Sounds pretty logical to me. Intelligent design has just as much actual proof as the big bang, does it not? Unless you believe the opinions of many atheist scientists is adequate proof that something happened. It's simple, you WANT to believe that there is nothing out there other than dust and echoes, so youre going to believe that. It doesnt make you any more right than I am In fact, have you ever taken a look as to how improbable life on this planet is? If things were off by a matter of centimeters we'd be fucked.

[Lucon]

lesser persons has

Go back to lolcats.

intelligent design is a theory

Not strictly speaking. A scientific theory is different from a theory as another word for "conjecture," since it needs some serious evidence before it can be called such. Oh, and I almost forgot: you don't understand the Big Bang theory, and I call "not it" on explaining it to you.

[Centurion]

Actually that is incorrect. John Titor came back to warn us of what was to come via message boards. He was teh time travels.

This^

[Izor]

Got physics and biology majors here tryin to explain all this to me. My point is that none of this makes any sense to any of us. You cant just read the abbreviated story on something like this, and then cut 5 steps out and say we're almost gods. Theres much more to it than that. You dont even know that the universe is 'expanding'. Thats just another theory. It's what you choose to believe. You can link me to another wikipedia article all you want but at the end of the day you're as clueless as me. The big bang must make a lot of sense to people that cant understand what caused it! Put 2 big heaps of nothing together and it goes boom! And creates planets, and the elements. Makes sense! I'm sure you can tell me how you get something out of nothing...dont keep me waiting you're all experts

[Vykromond]

Theres no proof that I'm aware of that tells me you stop aging when you get to light speed...it makes no sense. If I just was flying around at light speed I'd still age

yes there is read the wikipedia article on time dilation for starters

also "just a theory" is currently the most meaningless series of words in the english language

[Kolar]

Of course intelligent design is a theory...all of it is. Do you believe in the theory of evolution then?

I'm not saying we will never know more, I just think theres a point where we'll hit a roadblock and just not understand how it all comes together.

The one 'big ass assumption' science and scientists in general make is that just because science has proven a lot of what people have thought were acts of god in the past to be natural that god must be some fairy tale made up to explain the unexplainable

I'm not contesting the theory of relativity at low speeds, im contesting it at light speed. None of us know about that until it actually happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...heory_and_fact

I don't think either of us understands genetics enough to debate that but I believe as theory and later practical applications has always shown us that as long as something complex can be reduced it can be understood.

That's the "God of gaps", I commented on this in an earlier thread that it was an idea pushed by evangelicals at the time. I don't know of anyone who pushes this idea, especially in any academic setting that God or any kind of mythology is irrelevant or inferior in the face of scientific observation and examination. Science deals with the physical, natural world therefore it can not use supernatural causation to explain phenomenon, nor explicitly disprove it.

I don't know what you mean by lightspeeds, matter can not move at or beyond the speed of light (299,792,458 m/s). If we sent a spacecraft on an escape trajectory from our solar system it could only attain 99.99 percent the speed of light but not at or above that limit. If it were going 1% or 50% the speed of light it would make no difference, the principle is the same. The faster an object moves the slower time within the craft would slow relative to an outside observer.

[Izor]

Of course intelligent design is a theory...all of it is. Do you believe in the theory of evolution then?

I'm not saying we will never know more, I just think theres a point where we'll hit a roadblock and just not understand how it all comes together.

The one 'big ass assumption' science and scientists in general make is that just because science has proven a lot of what people have thought were acts of god in the past to be natural that god must be some fairy tale made up to explain the unexplainable

I'm not contesting the theory of relativity at low speeds, im contesting it at light speed. None of us know about that until it actually happens.

[L1 TW]

It occured to me a few years back that humanity will go extinct before we can invent time travel, because otherwise someone would have come back and warned us about the fact that we would go extinct. Since no one except Ahnold has travelled back in time, it's safe to assume that it will never happen.

That thought made me sad.

Actually that is incorrect. John Titor came back to warn us of what was to come via message boards. He was teh time travels.

[Kolar]

Kolar: so you believe in intelligent design then? Also, the theory of relativity, while it may make sense to you, is still just a theory. Theres no proof that I'm aware of that tells me you stop aging when you get to light speed...it makes no sense. If I just was flying around at light speed I'd still age

Intelligent design has been completely discredited as a scientific theory so no I don't believe in it. Just because we can conceive of designing a form of life from scratch doesn't mean it suggests life was therefore designed intelligently.

I think you're taking one big ass assumption, that our understanding of genetics is almost nothing, then moving to the next (I wanna say logical) step that we will never know more about it in the future, therefore biology and genetics can not be understood and we should just say fuck it and live in ignorance.

A practical example of how the theory of relativity can be proven, the GPS System. The satellites orbiting Earth and the ground base systems have a variance between their clocks, they run faster in orbit then the ones on Earth which would result in the system giving incorrect data if not corrected. You would age but slower in relation to that of a person on Earth depending on the velocity you attain. Also matter can't travel at the speed of light but close to it. Unless there's a breakthrough in the next few decades like at the LHC faster then light technology is probably hundreds of years away.

[Izor]

lol neither you nor I know how far we are away from it. To you it is as simple as 'mutating RNA into DNA' but if it were that simple it would have been done already. Even if we could do it, how could we manipulate that code into something we want? We dont understand any bit of it. DNA is something that is very complex and the smartest human alive imo has no chance at fully understanding it.

Kolar: so you believe in intelligent design then? Also, the theory of relativity, while it may make sense to you, is still just a theory. Theres no proof that I'm aware of that tells me you stop aging when you get to light speed...it makes no sense. If I just was flying around at light speed I'd still age