U.S. Federal debt obligations exceed world GDP. World GDP.

[Vihta]

Don't think you guys are actually understanding what that number means. The 65.5 trillion is a Net Present Value. Which means you guys have absolutely zero chance whatsoever to pay the promised medicare, medicaid, etc. off.

To arrive to that number they estimate current and all future incomes based on growth estimates and so on. Then they discount all the future amounts to present. Same is done for all promised/projected payments. 65.5 trillion is the difference between all projected future income and expenditure.

Considering the incomes are based on growth projections and we are in for a nice long economic depression/recession/whatever the deficit is just going to get larger.

This also explains a bit what's behind the number
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashc...l-failure-save

You can't really compare it to a mortgage, because to balance the sheets you would have to add 65.5 trillion today.

[Epinephrine]

Vihta, these numbers tend to get bigger and bigger the further the time horizon goes, a bit of an exponential curve. Because the size of the actual deficits are bigger and bigger, small changes now either from changes in taxation or lowering future payments can basically wipe out the entire thing.

[Vihta]

Vihta, these numbers tend to get bigger and bigger the further the time horizon goes, a bit of an exponential curve. Because the size of the actual deficits are bigger and bigger, small changes now either from changes in taxation or lowering future payments can basically wipe out the entire thing.

Seriously, small changes? Not likely.

And future amounts are discounted. The present value of 100 dollars 30 years from now using 5% inflation is 23$. So it's not really an exponential curve at all because the numbers are inflation adjusted. Ofc projections might be off, but what are the odds that they have underestimated future incomes?

[Cops]

Just saw CBC do an interview with Obama, even Peter Mansbridge blushed when he talked about Canada :wub: Anyone going to Ottawa on Thursday? I'd go if you could actually see the guy, but a four hour train to literally see nothing seems like a huge waste of time. If he'd make a speech, or at least walk around it'd be worth the trip.

There's gonna be a shit load of people at Parliament Hill Thursday. Personally I wish people would pay a bit more attention to Canadian politics instead of getting overwhelmed at our neighbors new leader. Sometimes I think people forget that Canada isn't America, and that regardless of how great they think Obama is his, his number one priority is America not Canada. Here's an idea, next time Canada has an election, municipal, provincial, or I don't know... federal, go out and fucking vote. There was more people in Canada watching the American presidential election then there was Canadians watching the leaders debate.

Thoughts on Obama;

A little afraid of this Buy American shit, Canada is a small nation that relies heavily on trading with America. The oil sands in Alberta are a great source of income for this country, regardless of the environmental impact. People want oil, we have it, they're going to use it up until something better comes along. Start closing doors on us and you'll see oil prices sky rocket, considering America's number one source for oil is Canada, NOT the Middle East. I don't think anyone's closing doors yet, but I'm not 100% confident that trade negotiations will go so smoothly in the coming years.

Afghanistan;

Thanks for the pat on the back, however other countries need to step in.

Massive Stimulus Package

I don't know what to say, this better fucking work. We might as well adopt the Amero at this point, Canada has attached itself to the American economy, so for better or worse we're with you on this roller coaster ride. Except the fucked up thing is you (you = American government) a) don't listen to us, b) learn from example, c) make decisions that affect the world without consulting it. I'll give Obama some time, but Canada really has been getting the short end of the stick for quite sometime. Obama wants to rewrite NAFTA, and I'm thinking he's looking out for American interests, but in reality we're really making a lot of concessions when it comes to energy and raw materials.

[Epinephrine]

Seriously, small changes? Not likely.

And future amounts are discounted. The present value of 100 dollars 30 years from now using 5% inflation is 23$. So it's not really an exponential curve at all because the numbers are inflation adjusted. Ofc projections might be off, but what are the odds that they have underestimated future incomes?

Social Security is projected to be paying out in full until at least 2041 by the latest projections. After that time, there is enough money to pay out at least around 75% of current payouts. So with only small changes in the program (few percent increase now in taxing, few percent decrease in payouts now), it could probably pay it back with no problem. Regardless, projections so far into the future have such a large margin of error that it really is hard to say what will actually happen in real life.

Meanwhile medicare costs in the USA is definitely projected to rise exponentially. This is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. If going by historical trends and projections, then the medicare costs will neatly account for the vast majority of this projected deficit. The thing is, medicine advances as such a fast rate along with technology that it really would be silly to project so far into the future (up to the lifespan of someone born right now). The system as it stands currently is viable for the near future, and so now is the right time to be making investments and making changes in the system to keep it viable in the future.

[Doc Flabby]

One problem is currently the system rewards companies that develop medicines that "manage" a condition (they can sell 100x repeat prescriptions) rather than "cure" it (1 sale). Probably why we havn't got a cure for AIDS yet...i mean its just a virus it can't be "that" hard to stop...

[Pearl Jam]

Just saw CBC do an interview with Obama, even Peter Mansbridge blushed when he talked about Canada :wub: Anyone going to Ottawa on Thursday? I'd go if you could actually see the guy, but a four hour train to literally see nothing seems like a huge waste of time. If he'd make a speech, or at least walk around it'd be worth the trip.

There's gonna be a shit load of people at Parliament Hill Thursday. Personally I wish people would pay a bit more attention to Canadian politics instead of getting overwhelmed at our neighbors new leader. Sometimes I think people forget that Canada isn't America, and that regardless of how great they think Obama is his, his number one priority is America not Canada. Here's an idea, next time Canada has an election, municipal, provincial, or I don't know... federal, go out and fucking vote. There was more people in Canada watching the American presidential election then there was Canadians watching the leaders debate.

Thoughts on Obama;

A little afraid of this Buy American shit, Canada is a small nation that relies heavily on trading with America. The oil sands in Alberta are a great source of income for this country, regardless of the environmental impact. People want oil, we have it, they're going to use it up until something better comes along. Start closing doors on us and you'll see oil prices sky rocket, considering America's number one source for oil is Canada, NOT the Middle East. I don't think anyone's closing doors yet, but I'm not 100% confident that trade negotiations will go so smoothly in the coming years.

Afghanistan;

Thanks for the pat on the back, however other countries need to step in.

Massive Stimulus Package

I don't know what to say, this better fucking work. We might as well adopt the Amero at this point, Canada has attached itself to the American economy, so for better or worse we're with you on this roller coaster ride. Except the fucked up thing is you (you = American government) a) don't listen to us, b) learn from example, c) make decisions that affect the world without consulting it. I'll give Obama some time, but Canada really has been getting the short end of the stick for quite sometime. Obama wants to rewrite NAFTA, and I'm thinking he's looking out for American interests, but in reality we're really making a lot of concessions when it comes to energy and raw materials.

spoken like a true "WHAT ABOUT US, MOTHERFUCKERS?" neighbor to the north. you said it yourself: at a basic level you a) depend HEAVILY on our economy and we b) depend heavily on your oil exports. you make all this talk about "we close the door on you and you're fucked, mister!" but it would have a sizeable impact on you guys as well. besides, the whole reason obama is in canada is to upgrade the trade channels between our two countries and so far things appear to be going well...so something tells me the trade negotiations aren't going to be hitting any huge rocky spot anytime soon. what makes you think otherwise? gut feeling?

so you can make as many "this is all your goddamn fault!" comments as you like, but we're in this shitstorm together due to the fact that our countries have been conjoined twins for a good while and we're the louder, stronger, attention-getting, way-up-and-way-down, making-moves-and-sometimes-those-moves-fuck-up-big-time twin. you're the steady-as-she-goes-twin that resents the other because you feel like they force you into things you don't want to be a part of. we get it- the stereotypes aren't going away. put the nationalist sword down.

oh, and the whole consulting "the world" bit is a good idea in theory, but wouldn't get us anywhere at this point. maybe if we did it from day one (read: the late 18th century).

[Tone]

Alert: Citigroup stock at $1.76

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYSE_C&v=dmax

[Kolar]

spoken like a true "WHAT ABOUT US, MOTHERFUCKERS?" neighbor to the north. you said it yourself: at a basic level you a) depend HEAVILY on our economy and we b) depend heavily on your oil exports. you make all this talk about "we close the door on you and you're fucked, mister!" but it would have a sizeable impact on you guys as well. besides, the whole reason obama is in canada is to upgrade the trade channels between our two countries and so far things appear to be going well...so something tells me the trade negotiations aren't going to be hitting any huge rocky spot anytime soon. what makes you think otherwise? gut feeling?

so you can make as many "this is all your goddamn fault!" comments as you like, but we're in this shitstorm together due to the fact that our countries have been conjoined twins for a good while and we're the louder, stronger, attention-getting, way-up-and-way-down, making-moves-and-sometimes-those-moves-fuck-up-big-time twin. you're the steady-as-she-goes-twin that resents the other because you feel like they force you into things you don't want to be a part of. we get it- the stereotypes aren't going away. put the nationalist sword down.

oh, and the whole consulting "the world" bit is a good idea in theory, but wouldn't get us anywhere at this point. maybe if we did it from day one (read: the late 18th century).

There was no real pressing need for him to make a state visit. Canada is a relatively safe and secure place for his first out of country visit as President, for his people to be tested without a lot of the pressures and threats they may face overseas. It would be nice if it were about resolving trade disputes, renegotiating NAFTA (I think all sides agree it's hurting the middle) and maybe attempting to negotiate an agreement on Afghanistan and foreign policy in general, being that we are one of the last NATO members to have a substantial force there. At the very least I'm hoping we're not referred to as simply Western Europe & Canada when discussing world events, signaling a shift in how this Administration sees their allies, more as allies rather then liabilities and baggage.

[Capital Knockers]

spoken like a true "WHAT ABOUT US, MOTHERFUCKERS?" neighbor to the north. you said it yourself: at a basic level you a) depend HEAVILY on our economy and we b) depend heavily on your oil exports. you make all this talk about "we close the door on you and you're fucked, mister!" but it would have a sizeable impact on you guys as well. besides, the whole reason obama is in canada is to upgrade the trade channels between our two countries and so far things appear to be going well...so something tells me the trade negotiations aren't going to be hitting any huge rocky spot anytime soon. what makes you think otherwise? gut feeling?

so you can make as many "this is all your goddamn fault!" comments as you like, but we're in this shitstorm together due to the fact that our countries have been conjoined twins for a good while and we're the louder, stronger, attention-getting, way-up-and-way-down, making-moves-and-sometimes-those-moves-fuck-up-big-time twin. you're the steady-as-she-goes-twin that resents the other because you feel like they force you into things you don't want to be a part of. we get it- the stereotypes aren't going away. put the nationalist sword down.

oh, and the whole consulting "the world" bit is a good idea in theory, but wouldn't get us anywhere at this point. maybe if we did it from day one (read: the late 18th century).

I don't think he was very heavy with the 'what about us shit' if you REALLY think about it. As you said yourself America is loud all the time, who are you to jump out and call him on standing up for our interests? Look at how many loudmouth american's we've got trolling these boards (not you, or at least, you're funny about it) - he had the typical polite canadian attitude about it as well.

I think the twin analogy is stretching it pretty far too, considering your putting both the countries into one person. With the diversity in both that's just impossible. You have to much variety to even go in that direction. I get the point, but come on. We have every right to demand a little more, we've HAVE been getting the short end of the stick for some time. I mean really, all political issues aside - I like my neighboors, I like Americans in general. Just the general attitude American's have had towards us for sometime has been insulting considering we're neighboors, biggest trading partners, closest allies? I know Canada has had it's own attitude, but your own post would support me in saying that I'm pretty sure the Canadian attitude was more of a reaction. We're pissed, fuckin' come have some beers. Stay longer than a day. Don't be Bush.

In all honesty I guess all I want to say is, I know the world is fucked, you run a big country and have alot more money, women, and nice cars than I do. But you fucking KNOW you should be treatin' your old camping, beer drinkin' hockey loving poutine buddy a little more visits. I really hope Obama is smart enough to come by a little more often, try to get involved with his closest ally and trading partner a little more. I mean really, we're canada, come have a couple brews unexpectedly, we'll love you for it. Not that difficult a concept when it comes to improving the little void of hostility that's spawned over the last how ever many years.

I guess what I'm saying is, we deserve a little more friendship and respect for all the partnerships and titles we share.

[Cops]

spoken like a true "WHAT ABOUT US, MOTHERFUCKERS?" neighbor to the north. you said it yourself: at a basic level you a) depend HEAVILY on our economy and we b) depend heavily on your oil exports. you make all this talk about "we close the door on you and you're fucked, mister!" but it would have a sizeable impact on you guys as well. besides, the whole reason obama is in canada is to upgrade the trade channels between our two countries and so far things appear to be going well...so something tells me the trade negotiations aren't going to be hitting any huge rocky spot anytime soon. what makes you think otherwise? gut feeling?

Once you start closing doors, in regards to trade it's something that progresses into other areas. For example, if America wants to put restrictions on a product or resource that is traded between Canada and America, then Canada could potenionally decide to take something away that benefits America more so than Canada. When you break it down, all you have to do is say one thing isn't considered Free Trade, then we say something isn't free trade, and so on and so forth.

Obama doesn't want to start a trade war, but by restricting resources from countries, for specific purposes, not necessarily from Canada could cause countries to react negatively. Also trade relations between Canada and other countries could be hindered because of our so called close relationship with the U.S.

so you can make as many "this is all your goddamn fault!" comments as you like, but we're in this shitstorm together due to the fact that our countries have been conjoined twins for a good while and we're the louder, stronger, attention-getting, way-up-and-way-down, making-moves-and-sometimes-those-moves-fuck-up-big-time twin. you're the steady-as-she-goes-twin that resents the other because you feel like they force you into things you don't want to be a part of. we get it- the stereotypes aren't going away. put the nationalist sword down.

At the end of the day, what's wrong with caring about your interests? Caring about your interests doesn't mean I advocate protectionism, it means I advocate countries looking out for themselves at all levels. Our greatest allie couldn't give a shit about us, so Canada needs to look out for Canada. No one else is going to care about what you need or want. Only you have the ability to ensure your people's growth, freedom, and democracy.

America has made decisions, economically (going to avoid military here) that have affected us just as much as you. What does it feel like? I feel like we're on a roller coaster ride without the ability to get off. Fuck, there's even policy in place that says you have first pickings at our energy. Basically, even if we want to diversify our international markets we're limited in what we can and can't do. We're stuck with you for the long haul, we're riding shotgun, the only problem is that you have a tendency to fall asleep at the wheel.

Canadians aren't greedy people. We're not self centered, we just want a) respect, b) to be consulted, and c) our fair share of the pie. Obama realizes this, I just hope he's willing to make concessions in the short term that will affect Americans but benefit all of North America in the future. We really do benefit working with one another, so as much as people want to say "fuck NAFTA", they need to realize economic prosperity is achieved by friendly trading relations.

oh, and the whole consulting "the world" bit is a good idea in theory, but wouldn't get us anywhere at this point. maybe if we did it from day one (read: the late 18th century).

oh, and the whole we need Canada to stay in Afghanistan is a good theory, but wouldn't get us anywhere at this point. maybe if America talked to us like allies since day one (read: The past 200 years)

[Tone]

On the Federal Reserve & our Monetary System

TARPS POSTS (Tone), Feb 26

Obama isnt bringing positive change do far. Hes not doing anything about the federal reserve and infact used the word "lending" 8 times in his speech the other day. He says we need to re-start lending confidence to jumpstart the economy. Hes with the old paradigm and that does nothing to bring change to our corrupt and criminal monetary system.

The constitution requires that our money must be backed by gold and silver and issued by the US treasury, which means the entity known as the federal reserve and the way it operates are both clearly and unambiguously unconstitutional

There is a purpose to this law. Its not because a hunk of metal is not so much more true value than a fiat paper, but rather its a mechanism by which prevents the devaluation and control of a currency. Rothchild wasnt fooling around when he said: "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."

When we have a monetary system that is controlled by a banking elite and their central banks rather than a hardback currency issued by the treasury, it is not in our best interest and never will be, and history records this as well.

The only purpose of such a system is another mechanism of obsessive control, and a way for globalists to act beyond what would normally be their means, fueling the current permanent war economy which has injured and killed well over 100 million people in the 20th century. we have lived with this monetary system and the federal reserve, teh 3rd and current central bank of the US, since 1913.

This is not a conspiracy theory, it is economics. With the passage of the federal reserve act during holiday when most of congress wasn't present, and signing of the into law, Many realized what had been done.

Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr said in 1913:

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created."

President Wilson later reflected on what he had done by signing the fed into law:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Its not in our best interest and well-being. American blogers and posters are not your enemy, corrupt & criminal governments, organizations, bills, legislation, military exercises on US Soil training to go door to door and Globalists are.

I dont want to have to make posts like this. I dont want to have to address the dumbed down American public who were duped by neurolinguistic programming "Hope" and "Change". We just have no choice but to address this issue because of what is going on in this country, and world wide as well because the other countries operate on the same system. Obama voters asked simple questions cant answer them, there are videos showing this. Get educated, get out of the false left-right paradigm matrix, get to know the issues, and encourage others to as well.



Watch this video that aired on Feb 25th, it is under 3 minutes, see CNBC get pissed off:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW2V50AS7K0




Watch Money Masters to learn more about the Federal Reserve System:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

[Vatican Assassin]

This 30 minute video does a great job describing the hostory of the USA deficit, definately a good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo

[Nycle]

Also, Clinton begs the Chinese to keep on buying US treasuries to finance the stimulus package

[Tone]

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYSE_C&v=dmax