President Obama on The Late Show with Jay Leno

[Liquid Blue]

I don't think the new stimulus package is very smart... or very prudent for that matter. I truly feel sorry for the generation that will have to pay the bill for this.

The Obama administration has been pressing European governments to indulge themselves into more senseless overspending. News came in yesterday that they refused, and rightfully so imo.

it's crazy to hear talk like this because it implies that Obama and his administration are at fault for what the country is going through right now. Or because there is no magical fix to the problem that's been brewing for a few presidential terms -that won't cost the average american tons of money.

There hasn't been any pressuring of 'senseless spending' either, all our economies are inter-connected and if the economies are already in the dumps, they sure aren't going to get better if everyone decides to stop buying shit

[HateTheFake]

it's crazy to hear talk like this because it implies that Obama and his administration are at fault for what the country is going through right now. Or because there is no magical fix to the problem that's been brewing for a few presidential terms -that won't cost the average american tons of money.

There hasn't been any pressuring of 'senseless spending' either, all our economies are inter-connected and if the economies are already in the dumps, they sure aren't going to get better if everyone decides to stop buying shit

Yes but when is spending considered too much? The bailout the democrats pushed for is being used horribly. AIG gave away billions apon billions (40 billion total i heard) to foreign banks that werent even American. How is that suppose to help the american people? Not to mention all his earmarks, he is spending and spending to leave us and the next generation with the bill

[Liquid Blue]

Yes but when is spending considered too much? The bailout the democrats pushed for is being used horribly.

How is it being used horribly? Have you actually looked at the stimulus bill or are you just parroting talking points?

AIG gave away billions apon billions (40 billion total i heard) to foreign banks that werent even American. How is that suppose to help the american people?

All of our economies are interconnected. AIG owed (and still owes) money to banks and companies all over the world, via their insurance policies. Think of it this way- AIG owes money to Bank A in Switzerland, which owes money to Bank B in China, which owes money to Bank C in England, which owes money to Bank D in America. If AIG can't pay their debts to Bank A, Bank A cannot pay their debts to B and B can't pay C, and so on.

This is why when America hits a recession, people all over the world feel it. Just because the money is not going straight into the pockets of the American citizen, doesn't mean it's not helping our economy.

Not to mention all his earmarks, he is spending and spending to leave us and the next generation with the bill

Did you really think these bailouts (even the one passed when Bush was in office) would be paid out in a matter of years? We're talking hundreds of billions of dollars, this problem was a long time brewing and it will take a long time to fix as well.

[Nycle]

it's crazy to hear talk like this because it implies that Obama and his administration are at fault for what the country is going through right now. Or because there is no magical fix to the problem that's been brewing for a few presidential terms -that won't cost the average american tons of money.

I'm not sure how me pointing out that the newest stimulus package is not the smartest thing to do automatically implies that the Obama administration is at fault for the problems, but ok...

There hasn't been any pressuring of 'senseless spending' either, all our economies are inter-connected and if the economies are already in the dumps, they sure aren't going to get better if everyone decides to stop buying shit

Nothing personal, but I think this is a prime example of classical Keynesian shortsightedness. The Keynesian recipe for economic recovery when everything else fails is government spending to revive demand, which is typical of Anglo-Saxon countries. However, it's not only a matter of restoring demand as much as it is in restoring trust. You can try and cure debt with more debt but in the end it won't make any difference if people don't have their confidence restored. When that happens, the only thing you'll have achieved is a deterioration of public finances at the cost of an entire nation who will have to carry the burden. Added to that, the first wave of stimulus packages haven't even been given enough time to show their results yet. So yes, I'm calling the newest package 'senseless overspending'.

As for the Obama administration not pressing other governments into doing the same... well, they kinda are... http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/19/europe/union.php

Just to add a footnote to this. A downturn in the American economy triggers a lot more instant misery for its people due to the absence of 'automatic stabilisers' (i.e. unemployment benefits, etc.) so I can see the need for wanting to have more and faster results. I'm all for trying to stimulate the economy to limit the pain, but this is just reckless imo. If you want to try and cure debt with more debt then by all means, go right ahead if you think that's right thing to do. I just hope you'll give long-term economic stability as much attention as you're giving it in the short term.

[Liquid Blue]

I'm not sure how me pointing out that the newest stimulus package is not the smartest thing to do automatically implies that the Obama administration is at fault for the problems, but ok...

The problem when people complain about the stimulus package in that manner, is that they don't have suggestions of alternatives that could be done to improve the economy. Ontop of that you were saying it's not prudent right after Epi had said that one was of Obama's best qualities

However, it's not only a matter of restoring demand as much as it is in restoring trust. You can try and cure debt with more debt but in the end it won't make any difference if people don't have their confidence restored. When that happens, the only thing you'll have achieved is a deterioration of public finances at the cost of an entire nation who will have to carry the burden.

Yea, it's pretty much what I saying above about how if people don't have the confidence to buy things, the economy will still suffer. The problem that America has right now is that we were already waist deep in this sinkhole of a problem around this past September before people started freaking out. We've been making this burden heavier and heavier for years, somehow magically thinking that we wouldn't have to pay for it at some point.

The EU is rejecting the stimulus package because like you mentioned, they don't need results quite as fast since unemployed workers are still receiving benefits/pay for a few months after they're let go. They need to create long-term confidence instead of short term band-aid fixes, so I can understand why they want to use a different plan. The plan seems reckless because it's a huge sum of money and we've recently had to see multiple high level executives and CEO's and brokers wasting (although not quite as big, still amazingly large) sums of money. People are worried it's not going to the right places or right people but along with initial relief, there is also good amounts of the stimulus package going into building infrastructure, jobs and other long term, slow to see assets.

[HateTheFake]

How is it being used horribly? Have you actually looked at the stimulus bill or are you just parroting talking points?

Indeed, have you seen all the earmarks?

All of our economies are interconnected. AIG owed (and still owes) money to banks and companies all over the world, via their insurance policies. Think of it this way- AIG owes money to Bank A in Switzerland, which owes money to Bank B in China, which owes money to Bank C in England, which owes money to Bank D in America. If AIG can't pay their debts to Bank A, Bank A cannot pay their debts to B and B can't pay C, and so on.

i am all for paying off debt but lets make sure they are taking care of Americans first before paying OUR TAX DOLLARS to other countries. Germany can go bailout their banks if they want to, we however dont need to.

This is why when America hits a recession, people all over the world feel it. Just because the money is not going straight into the pockets of the American citizen, doesn't mean it's not helping our economy.

America does effect other peoples economy, I'm sure with all of Obamas spending China will be picking up the short term bill

Did you really think these bailouts (even the one passed when Bush was in office) would be paid out in a matter of years? We're talking hundreds of billions of dollars, this problem was a long time brewing and it will take a long time to fix as well.

The one passed in the bush office was with a democratic congress. The same congress who passed a billion dollar deal to help 500 fish...

Instead of a big bailout the government needs to give big businesses a reason to do business in America. Or put stricter tax laws on all Imported items. Keep Americans money in america. (also hand in hand with illegal immigration)

[Galleleo]

i am all for paying off debt but lets make sure they are taking care of Americans first before paying OUR TAX DOLLARS to other countries. Germany can go bailout their banks if they want to, we however dont need to.

That doesn't help at all. The Crisis is a worldwide thing, you are going to have to go about it on a worldwide scale. America just helping America doesn't fix any crisis.

[Liquid Blue]

Indeed, have you seen all the earmarks?

Look man instead of repeating phrases you've heard on talk radio, how about you specifically mention what you think is horrible about the stimulus bill. You say the money is being used horribly so the burden of proof is on you to describe how, instead of just saying "durr EARMARKS!!" then leaning back in your neckbeard chair all smug and triumphant.

i am all for paying off debt but lets make sure they are taking care of Americans first before paying OUR TAX DOLLARS to other countries. Germany can go bailout their banks if they want to, we however dont need to.

You still don't understand that our economies are interdependent. We need Germany's banks to stay out of debt as much as they need ours- AIG paying off debts to foreign banks is helping to taking care of Americans, it's not that hard to understand. We need other countries economies to be stable and positive to ensure that our economy stays stable and positive. OUR TAX DOLLARS are still helping the american people, even though you don't see the money go straight to our pockets.

America does effect other peoples economy, I'm sure with all of Obamas spending China will be picking up the short term bill

China isn't the only country to be helping us our right now, every single major country is helping each other out.

The one passed in the bush office was with a democratic congress. The same congress who passed a billion dollar deal to help 500 fish...

You didn't answer the question you quoted, instead you're straw manning the topic point. I didn't ask you to tell me about other expensive deals the government has done in the past, I specifically asked you if you thought
the bailout Bush passedwould be paid in a certain number of years.

Instead of a big bailout the government needs to give big businesses a reason to do business in America. Or put stricter tax laws on all Imported items. Keep Americans money in america. (also hand in hand with illegal immigration)

This is so vague and stupid it doesn't support your point, simply it just focuses on the holes in what you're saying. "Instead of a bailout we need to give businesses a reason to do business in america". oh well gee I think thousands of analysts and economists would like to shake your hand, you've just fixed everyone's problems. And how do you plan to give businesses a reason to do business in America?

What do you mean stricter tax laws on imported items, you really want to tax foreign companies more the way our economy is to try and boost our own? How much of an increase do you think would be profitable? Would every other country who supports our economy by buying our exports just roll over and not raise our taxes as well?

Keep Americans money in America? What the fuck are you serious?



Please go find a figure of how much anime, videogames and other goods are bought by Americans who don't want to keep money in America if it means they can get the latest Naruto manga or Inuyasha plush doll for mad cheap. Did Joe the plumber hack your account?

[Capital Knockers]

It's still to early to tell whether any of his actions are good or bad for America. The people bashing him are doing so without any care for what he's even doing. He could drive his kids to work and people like Izor will be on his nuts for not being reclused in the oval office trying to hammer out solutions 24/7 to problems that he didn't even make. Honestly cut the guy some slack and give some good alternatives instead of just insults. If there is any time for your country to come together it's now, you bloody well need to. You should just be happy that the rest of the world seems to love Obama, because with all the shit you're going through, if you had elected a Bush 2.0 - I don't see the world helping you very much.

I really want to just drive that home to the hardcore Obama haters out there. If America had McCain right now, it would be terrible. You need the world to like you right now, especially after the dry spell you've had, and all of Bush's warmongering. Don't underestimate how badly you need a strong, well-liked leader on the world stage - even if you might not like him, you need to pull your heads out of your asses and realize your opinion of him isn't important at all right now in comparison to the worlds.

[Epinephrine]

Don't look at me, I voted for Kodos.

[Izor]

Well youre using manga as an example of us not keeping our money here but it's a bad example because we dont truly have manga here that we make ourselves. What he meant I'm pretty sure was stop outsourcing things like customer support to India, and auto assembly to Canada/Mexico when we can create the jobs for it here. Of course, this would require Americans to take a hit to their standard of living, because no business is going to do that willingly when its much cheaper to ship it overseas

[PaulOakenfold]

Manga? What? What happened to this thread? What the hell is manga?

GOD FUCK DUKE

[Kolar]

What do you mean stricter tax laws on imported items, you really want to tax foreign companies more the way our economy is to try and boost our own? How much of an increase do you think would be profitable? Would every other country who supports our economy by buying our exports just roll over and not raise our taxes as well?

Keep Americans money in America? What the fuck are you serious?

What you're describing is a tariff war and the whole buy American provision nearly caused one in the steel industry. A lot of nations export a good deal of materials (Canada particularly for raw materials) to the US and if that were to change we would see this economic crisis deepen.

In regard to HTF's attitude that we must now bow down to big business when they, their buddies in Congress and the White House got drunk at the helm and got us into this mess: Go Fuck Yourself. It was suggested some relief efforts be made towards people who were taken advantage of by predatory lending agencies but when the Right (your side) and Wall Street got a hold of it HTF, they tore both McCain and Obama apart for even suggesting any failout money would go towards private citizens, 700 or more Billion dollars latter we can't even tell where over half of it went. If another business is on the brink they better lay down two things: A rational and sound business plan towards recovery AND a payment schedule and 51% of their shares. Otherwise die. Shareholders know the risks, a certain portion of any account balance is protected for failing banks so 99.9% of people are protected.

The only way out is to invest in infrastructure, education, health care, transportation, in whatever can create some jobs right now. That's all the President and Congress can do. It's a fucking big risk because it's adding a lot more 0's onto the deficit but doing nothing at all could push the unemployment rate 20% and up. Recovering from that kind of depression will change the world and not in our favor.