2009 Toronto Garbage Strike!

[Exalt]

collecting garbage is a no skill trade. It takes less training than working at mcdonalds.

I hope their strike fails and they all get fired. Since there was already a strike in 2002, that should be the end of it. Sign your labor agreement and end it.

They do it again 7 years later, and they are asking for more and more now? They should all be fired, fuck the union.

Any joe schmoe on the street can be a garbage collector. It is not like the electrical union is striking. They are garbage collectors.

[Cops]

Work for Wal-Mart and don't get any of those options. lol 3 sick days per 6 month rolling period. If you call of 2-3 days in a row, it's considered as 1 call off. So if you go with it I can technically have 9 call offs before I get a coaching.

On the other hand, we get sick HOURS to use when we call off. So all sick days are unpaid till you use your sick hours, which accumulate over time. I currently have 192 sick hours along with 60 hours personal time and 80 hours vacation.

Sick hours cap out at 192 hours and start rolling over into personal time. Keep in mind I've only called off 2 days in 5 years. So you can do the math if you want to see what we get in a year. lol It's based off of hours worked in a year.

Edit: Looking at those numbers I can take about a 2 month leave of absence and still get paid my regular amount on my paychecks. $$$

The guy working at Walmart gets more sick and personal days off than me, FML.

[genocidal]

so I don't understand why they are striking... they get more benefits then a LARGE majority of jobs out there... and they seem to be getting paid quite a bit for a job that takes no skill to do or learn, thus no degree or even high school diploma are even needed

you pick up garbage for a few hours in the morning... what the fuck

I hope this strike fucks you in the ass, because you already have too much. If you already did a strike in 2002 then you should have been done with it. Its only 7 years later. I hope the city fires all of you and refuses to hire anyone in the union. It's not like it would be hard to replace you. It takes no skill to pick up garbage.

collecting garbage is a no skill trade. It takes less training than working at mcdonalds.

I hope their strike fails and they all get fired. Since there was already a strike in 2002, that should be the end of it. Sign your labor agreement and end it.

They do it again 7 years later, and they are asking for more and more now? They should all be fired, fuck the union.

Any joe schmoe on the street can be a garbage collector. It is not like the electrical union is striking. They are garbage collectors.

Thanks for giving us both of these posts, much clarification was needed after the first.

[Epinephrine]

There's two ways I look at the private and public sector

Private Sector

Possibility for more money than public
Less benefits
Less sick time

Public Sector

Substantially less pay than private
More benefits
More sick time/flexibility

When people are deciding what industry they'd like to enter, they usually think about those three things; benefits, sick days, and pay. There's benefits to working in both sectors, which is why I think it's necessary for both sectors to be presentable to the employee.

Why would anyone work in the public sector and take a huge pay cut if they didn't get more flexibility with their sick days, as well as better benefits? I'm not saying that the public sector is perfect or that teachers need to take off all their 25 sick and personal days, but if the union fought to get that number then that is an acceptable number of days a worker can have off without being penalized.

I had this discussion awhile ago, and I was presented with the point of view that unlike other jobs teachers don't have a lot of lul time to sort their files, mark papers, plan assignments or anything else that is a daily task of most teachers. A lot of teachers have to cover recess or bus duty, leaving them roughly 20 minutes a day to throw something down their throat. I know 25 days off seems an exorbant amount of days but I understand why certain jobs have more days off then others, as for garbagemen I can't see why they need more than 12 days off a year. I think a day off a month is fair given their field.

Also, there's ways of balancing your workforce in a public sector, there's yearly reviews as well as contracts teachers must sign when going to a new school. If a princicpal believes you're not putting in a real effort or you're always late you can be told you can't teach at the school the following year, of course once your in the system it's very hard to get fired.

The private sector doesn't necessarily guarantee you a job with vastly better pay. Consider the fact that jobs are not comparable between the two sectors. The only time you can really compare is when the city ends up contracting out services. And then you realize that those workers usually make less than what the city workers used to (which is how they save money by contracting out in the first place).

As further examples, teachers in the public system generally make the same as private school teachers unless you're talking about the most elite private school teachers (vs say the religious schools like the Jewish schools in Toronto). Transit workers in Toronto can easily make $30/hour. Police and firemen are extremely well paid for their efforts. This goes on and on. Public sector guarantees a good salary, and good benefits, and never getting fired, and guaranteed raises.

The private sector gives you more leeway to make a ton of money that is true, but only if you are truly very good at what you do. If you're an average person, you won't do much better than the public sector, especially considering how easy it is to get fired/laid off in the private vs public sector, how easy it is to miss a raise, and how easy it is to get your benefits rolled back in bad times.

As well, it is quite difficult to 'get into' the public sector. I tried for 8 years straight to apply for government jobs in the summer and never even got a callback. I know a lot of government positions are closed off to a lot of people. Officially they are 'open' but what ends up happening is that jobs just get offered to friends and family of union members.

You also bring up the example of teachers. There's a TON of unemployed and underemployed teachers out there. Meanwhile there's a lot of bad teachers in the system who can't get fired. In the private sector, those teachers would have been weeded out a long time ago and replaced with eager young teachers who are willing to work more than 3 official hours a day.

Finally:

Asking for a doctors note everytime you're sick is kind of ridiculous, it would backlog walk in clinics to no fucking end. I don't mind going to see a Doctor and waiting 10-20 minutes, but there's no fucking way I'll be waiting a few hours to get a note saying I have dhiarea, a cold, or a viral infection. Sometimes you're just sick, but in no way shape or form in need of seeing a Doctor. Requiring all your workers to provide you with a doctoor's note would bankrupt our health-care system, not to mention that it would make workers feel like their employers don't trust them.

Valid points. But still, there has to be a good way to stop people from abusing the system. Recently there was a lot of press about how prison guards in Canada were completely abusing the system by calling in sick days every Friday before a Monday holiday and then working Monday (and vice versa for long weekends that began on Fridays). That way they get the long weekend, AND they got paid 1.5x for working on a holiday... guards were making >$100,000/year easy.

[Cops]

The private sector doesn't necessarily guarantee you a job with vastly better pay. Consider the fact that jobs are not comparable between the two sectors. The only time you can really compare is when the city ends up contracting out services. And then you realize that those workers usually make less than what the city workers used to (which is how they save money by contracting out in the first place).

As further examples, teachers in the public system generally make the same as private school teachers unless you're talking about the most elite private school teachers (vs say the religious schools like the Jewish schools in Toronto). Transit workers in Toronto can easily make $30/hour. Police and firemen are extremely well paid for their efforts. This goes on and on. Public sector guarantees a good salary, and good benefits, and never getting fired, and guaranteed raises.

The private sector gives you more leeway to make a ton of money that is true, but only if you are truly very good at what you do. If you're an average person, you won't do much better than the public sector, especially considering how easy it is to get fired/laid off in the private vs public sector, how easy it is to miss a raise, and how easy it is to get your benefits rolled back in bad times.

As well, it is quite difficult to 'get into' the public sector. I tried for 8 years straight to apply for government jobs in the summer and never even got a callback. I know a lot of government positions are closed off to a lot of people. Officially they are 'open' but what ends up happening is that jobs just get offered to friends and family of union members.

You also bring up the example of teachers. There's a TON of unemployed and underemployed teachers out there. Meanwhile there's a lot of bad teachers in the system who can't get fired. In the private sector, those teachers would have been weeded out a long time ago and replaced with eager young teachers who are willing to work more than 3 official hours a day.

Finally:


Valid points. But still, there has to be a good way to stop people from abusing the system. Recently there was a lot of press about how prison guards in Canada were completely abusing the system by calling in sick days every Friday before a Monday holiday and then working Monday (and vice versa for long weekends that began on Fridays). That way they get the long weekend, AND they got paid 1.5x for working on a holiday... guards were making >$100,000/year easy.

I understand that most people in the private sector don't always make more money, we've both been employed by Famous Players, which paid me .25 cents above minimum wage to be a supervisor. Technically now I work in the private sector and I'm now only realizing I have my job because the person before was paid a little more than they wanted to pay her so they split her wage in half and hired two people, I now make half of what she did. In a year or two after continuously working from home, coming in early, leaving late I know that it's just a matter of time before I get sandbagged. Why? Because the editorial department at my job is valued to be less than the people who clean our office. I've heard shit like, 'the editorial is only filler for our advertisements', or my favorite; 'if we could fill our entire magazine with ads we would'. I have a desk, some business cards with a fancy title, and a business computer but underneath it all that I'm just another shit-stain eager graduate willing to work my way up only to be knocked down when they realize they can pay someone cheaper to do my job.

Fuck them, I know their game and even when I saw this sandbag happen right infront of my eyes they couldn't keep their story straight. I'll be attending University next year, at U of T and hopefully after I'm done I'll be accepted into teachers college. I've seen enough to know that I want stability, even if that means a few more years in school. I wish I got into the concurrent program however for distance reasons I chose to go to UTM, instead of sitting on a train for an hour and a half every day. After I'm done I believe there's several University's that have programs to become a certified teacher in Ontario, obviously U of T has one of the best but it's one of those situations where you go where you're accepted. I also have an edge up on a lot of people considering I spent a lot of time in alternative education programs. Knowing that they wish to hire teachers who can relate to students who have trouble through high school, I think I would be a strong male influence. There's ways of getting into big high-schools, sub a lot, or finish the year for another teacher who is gone on medical leave/pregnancy.

I think I've run into the exact same problems as you, I applied for a 2-year internship through the Ontario government to work in their communications department, and even with an impressive GPA, working for my program, and having some amazing references I have never, and will never receive a phone call back. The Ontario government internships have something like a 90% hiring rate after you finish your internships. You'll also be receiving 40-45k a year as an intern (ridiculous starting wage for a communications student) to do a job that would have you starting at 20-24k a year.

This world is full of loop-holes and bureaucracy, so the best thing I can do as an individual is to at least understand the systems that surround me I can better my situation. It's all about getting the most for my labour. If this sounds unethical or self centered, then that's fine, I think that everyone has the ability to understand the bullshit that surrounds them to make sure they're not on the losing end of the stick. This may sound callous and cold, but if you're dumb enough to work in a factory for twenty thirty years making a few dollars above minimum wage then you're dumb enough to deserve that crap money you're going to get paid. I've worked in factories, and there are some bright people there, but what those people lack is ambition. Without ambition or the ability to do something with yourself you become the intelligent person in a room full of idiots.

Basically what cleaning up shit, mopping up puke, and getting short-changed when I almost made the minimum amount of money you can legally pay someone has taught me -- is that there's something better out there even if it means being part of a corporate chain, or sucking back government dollars. I'm not saying either system is perfect, but all I know is that if I was given sick days that I could bank and was saving up those for 10 to 15 years there's no way I wouldn't strike. The governments allowed a system of people who are nearing retirement to save up sick days so when they can retire early and still get paid for a year or two after their done work.

What are you going to do, take that away from them now? If I was in their situation and they were going to take away my bank of sick days I'd start it immediately and make sure everyone was using their sick days at once, making it so there's no one cleaning the city. There's no way the city can win this, just don't give them anymore, and don't take anything away.

[Epinephrine]

One day I'll go back to UofT to get my B.Sc.... maybe Well that was always the plan anyway.

Being a teacher is a solid job:
1) Most teachers are female so lots of work hookups
2) You get summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas
3) You make decent money if you stick around long enough at it
4) It's an easy job once you settle in, because you can just reuse lesson plans and tests from year to year.

[Cops]

One day I'll go back to UofT to get my B.Sc.... maybe Well that was always the plan anyway.

Being a teacher is a solid job:
1) Most teachers are female so lots of work hookups
2) You get summers off and 2 weeks at Christmas
3) You make decent money if you stick around long enough at it
4) It's an easy job once you settle in, because you can just reuse lesson plans and tests from year to year.

Didn't you get a B.Sc from U of T? I thought you had a PHD from U of T.

[project dragon]

Dear LCBO,

Don't you go on strike too.

Regards,

[Money]

is this why ward went around calling ppl "garbage leak"

[Money]

Nah, that's what it's like all the time.

LOLOOOOOOOOLOLOLOL SO TRUE, in all cities with a china town that is... loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

[Epinephrine]

Didn't you get a B.Sc from U of T? I thought you had a PHD from U of T.

Nah never god a BSc.... PhD? No man, I'm a REAL doctor Anyway just how old do you think I am???

[kthx]

LOL I can't believe I missed this golden opportunity to insult Canada, I hope this thread isn't already failing.

I can already read the canadian headlines.


"HOW ABOOT YOU CLEAN UP OUR TRASH TRASHMEN"

"EYY HOSERS GET BACK TO WORK"

Piles of Alannis Moirsette CD's, flannel shirts, missing teeth, and dead bodies of elderly people who weren't worth saving because they were old because of terrible socialized medicine ideals. Maple Syrup leaking all over the streets while a bunch of lazy fucking trashmen who probably wear red suits and ride horses like the rest of those stupid fucking Canadians instead of driving garbage trucks sit around at their Canadians McDonalds eating poutine with extra gravy getting fuck as fuck while watching hockey while unbuttoning their flannel pants and taking off their stupid ass flannel hats with the floppy ears.

[PhaTz]

I just moved out of Toronto two months ago to Windsor, and the WM guys decided to go on strike the second week I got here.
So for about two months now, we had to deal with our own garbage. I burned some of them, and drove the rest to a dump site, but either way, it sucks! The trashes around town are either piling up, or being hustled by teenagers with an U-haul truck. And yeah, these kids are making a shitload.
Those who are on strike right now are fucking everybody's world up. You aren't paid enough? Okay, there are others who are willing to work for less. It's a fucking recession people, don't get ignorant!

As for the dot, public service should never be allowed to go on strike, like fucking TTC did last year. Fucking over other people who relied on you isn't how a city works. They better not fuck up, I have plans to return in a few months.

[Money]

LOL I can't believe I missed this golden opportunity to insult Canada, I hope this thread isn't already failing.

I can already read the canadian headlines.


"HOW ABOOT YOU CLEAN UP OUR TRASH TRASHMEN"

"EYY HOSERS GET BACK TO WORK"

Piles of Alannis Moirsette CD's, flannel shirts, missing teeth, and dead bodies of elderly people who weren't worth saving because they were old because of terrible socialized medicine ideals. Maple Syrup leaking all over the streets while a bunch of lazy fucking trashmen who probably wear red suits and ride horses like the rest of those stupid fucking Canadians instead of driving garbage trucks sit around at their Canadians McDonalds eating poutine with extra gravy getting fuck as fuck while watching hockey while unbuttoning their flannel pants and taking off their stupid ass flannel hats with the floppy ears.

rooooooooooofl LAUGHED FOR ABOUT 10 MINUTES

[kthx]

so did I