Computer Controlled Players

[Vitron]

The main problem one of the TW 10 rules states that any BOT client is considered cheating. So do anything like this would be a bannable offence.

If you made a bot useing twcore - which is the easiest way to make a AI bot right now. Then just ask dock to review the code then pop it onto tw's twcore. Finally, find a host to send out an advert telling everyone to go to deathmatch to pwn a bot in dueling, maybe even have top dueling squads fight against it in a empty dueling arena... or something along those lines.

[bounty]

If you made a bot useing twcore - which is the easiest way to make a AI bot right now. Then just ask dock to review the code then pop it onto tw's twcore. Finally, find a host to send out an advert telling everyone to go to deathmatch to pwn a bot in dueling, maybe even have top dueling squads fight against it in a empty dueling arena... or something along those lines.

This sounds like a cool idea and if it's all legal that's even better!

[DoCk>]

Honestly, there are a lot better things for developers to do than waste time developing AI bots. Hell, keeping the leagues running is keeping us occupied enough as it is. I know exactly what is required to develop the bots, and in my judgement it isn't worth the amount of work it would take. We might as well rewrite the Continuum client in java while we're at it, because it wouldn't be too much of a stretch after we've duplicated nearly every single function in it.

[Vitron]

Sigh... I would have to agree, I can just make the name AI_Bot and have dock fly it with super and shields... Works much better.

[WiseCherub]

Honestly, there are a lot better things for developers to do than waste time developing AI bots. Hell, keeping the leagues running is keeping us occupied enough as it is. I know exactly what is required to develop the bots, and in my judgement it isn't worth the amount of work it would take. We might as well rewrite the Continuum client in java while we're at it, because it wouldn't be too much of a stretch after we've duplicated nearly every single function in it.

Yeah, I stated in my other messages that the TW bot developers have other priorities to be concerned with. I just replyed to this thread out of interest, and a possible long term project to work on for fun and to test AI game theory out for a nice challenge. Obviously, the key TW Zone projects (like the leagues) have to be focussed on.

Continuum client all in java, that wouldn't be a good idea. I'm not sure what prittk used, probably C/C++. I would hope and think prittk would have written Continuum client in the most efficient way possible using a lower level language than JAVA. But yes, the tw botcore written in java is a brilliant idea and makes sense. But using java twbotcore for AI player bots would be grossly inefficent and would unnecessarily tie up the TW Server. Which Mythrandir made a very good point in, unfortunately its not possible for others to do this, since prittk alone holds the keys to it all.

Geez, someone could have the computer hardware that the TW Server has at home and it could only focus on 1 duty, AI controlled computer player, with highly efficient code and powerful computer hardware/resources.

[DoCk>]

Not going to respond any further.

[Bob (SRB)]

It would be cool if a company like microsoft invested in continuum free of cost. Then they could send out some of their insane genious programmers and they could all program a kickass bot. (my mind is simple so i just imagine a bunch of guys with suits and big glasses riding a fire truck). Wouldn't something like that work? Like look at the computer games that have been made, isnt subspace relatively simple compared to these games? Such as the computer controlled enemies in halo (and the new ones in halo 2 which will be even better) they can aim, dodge, hide, wait for enforcements, and what i think is really cool, use objects as shields. So if a big computer game company decided to design some bots for subspace, they would be able to create these invincible bots right? Or is creating a bot like that completely impossible no matter what?

[Stabwound]

I think Dock> was more referring to the fact that you would have to code so much of the Continuum client into the java bot that you may as well take the extra step and make it a real java client.

[Troll King]

Whenever you make any changes, whether it be a local one that affects just TW or one that affects the SS client itself, there's something that we should keep in mind:

No matter how cool or innovative an idea is, does it cross the line so that it becomes a different game entirely? This isn't a criticism on whether these ideas are good or not, but every now and then we have people saying stuff like: "let's make a speedball arena in TW!" when there are actual speedball zones out there that would welcome some more players.

[WiseCherub]

Whenever you make any changes, whether it be a local one that affects just TW or one that affects the SS client itself, there's something that we should keep in mind:

No matter how cool or innovative an idea is, does it cross the line so that it becomes a different game entirely? This isn't a criticism on whether these ideas are good or not, but every now and then we have people saying stuff like: "let's make a speedball arena in TW!" when there are actual speedball zones out there that would welcome some more players.

Yes, you hit the hammer on the nail, quite true in what you say Troll King.

A new game indeed; using some of the conceptual ideas from this game.

Didn't that Mr.Mike try that on TW afew years back, but it just didn't attract interest. But positive to see others try to help push this game genre to new limits, instead of stagnating.

[Vitron]

I havn't been around too long but tw seems to keep changing at an insane speed, getting better and better. Basing, from what I gather, has jumped in leaps and bounds and continues to do so - with the aditions of time race, cramming, etc. (Though some say cramming isn't an improvement ) The only way to continue to grow is to have good/bad ideas flowing in. This is one of those ideas that won't work... but we'll keep thinking, no mater how devistating it is to the world. I salute you tw.

[Theif of Time]

I agree with Vitron... it won't work in the way some people say it will, as in, automated dueling, but may work for... other things. Like as the original agent in ?go matrix, or some sort of door guard bot.

[TopGod]

I'll write the AI code if someone writes the client code to go along with it... *teehee*

And whoever said that its possible to write an intelligent bot that can beat all but the strongest play styles... youre very wrong. Look at the "good" AI in Halo, how many AI guys do you kill before they kill you? Hundreds? Thousands? Its (relatively) easy to write some AI that will having amazing dodging and aiming, but the difference between an AI and a human player is that the human player will adapt when an AI cant.

Anyway... If anyone actually does go through with this, I can give you some amazing aim/dodge algorithms which are impossible for a human to pull off but are pretty easy for a comp.

[Wintermute-]

Haha, some guy in a pub thought Klipsch was a bot.


Anyway, on the the subject at hand; (Sorry if someone already covered the following, I couldn't be bothered to wade through this entire thread.)

In order for a bot to dodge, it would have to have access to the programming of the server, which is what calculates shots, who dies, who doesn't, where the mines are, etc, etc.
So, in order for a bot to avoid obstacles like these, it would have to be able to access the server processes.
It would require almost as much, if not more, processing than the server itself.

I don't think a Bot could ever be as good as a human player. Eventually its dodging techniques would become within the realm of predictability.
Also, a bot would have no concept of eliminating greather threats, yadda yadda.

Of course, this is all speculation from a New-B programmer, and I have no formal training in bot concept or programming.

It would be cool if a company like microsoft invested in continuum free of cost. Then they could send out some of their insane genious programmers and they could all program a kickass bot.

Pffft. Microsoft is far from genious.

[Verthanthi]

No matter how cool or innovative an idea is, does it cross the line so that it becomes a different game entirely? This isn't a criticism on whether these ideas are good or not, but every now and then we have people saying stuff like: "let's make a speedball arena in TW!" when there are actual speedball zones out there that would welcome some more players.

I can't help but feel that's directed at me. Let me explain what my stance was. Speedball is a type of powerball game, it's true. But the game played very much like a TW game. Perhaps that's why it was put in TW the first time. True, it was put up in PB, but not because it was especially like it. The weapons were so different pb players complained it was for nubs. TW people, of course, are use to one hit kills. Anyway, it's a moot point because we have Strikeball which fills my TW ball game needs.