Old-timer roll call

[ogron]

let's stop this fucking nonsense right here and realize blood is one of the best warbirds out there that has ever graced our zone.

and you know? people like ogron (baser) are like; this guy never did anything in twdtd and draft people are like who the fuck is Raspi?

Raspi was one of the best warbirds ever and blood beat him 9-0 in an elim final. blood was seriously one of the best players who ever played Trench Wars. I am sucking his dick right now, with good reason. 33-0 elim with a 9-0 final vs Raspi, one of the best players ever, deserves a 2d dick sucking. shut the fuck up.

Jones

What the fuck are you talking about you bozo?

I played thousands of elims against Raspi and Banzi before you ever logged into this game for the first time. Raspi is one of the best players to ever play. Period. Blood was a very good player across multiple leagues.

Got respect for all 3 of those guys.

The only thing I'm against is dicksuckers like you thinking above-average players like FieryFire and his OG butt buddies, playing on 2048x resolution in fucking 1999, were these amazing players when they couldn't even stay relevant when the zone got more popular and resolution limits were put in place.

A little harder to dominate warbird when you don't have more than double the screenplace of people playing on 1000x and 800x monitors and a newbie zone matures, eh?

Look at this loser's cringe ass post saying everyone in 2003 is trash and way worse than everyone in 1999-2002 lol. Yes, that's how things work, the zone gets bigger, more popular, and experienced and magically get worse!

Even Blood is in there talking about they were all so good they got "bored" and stopped caring, the level of absolute delusion and bullshit is just beyond. Without cheat res and an influx of new players to shit on, game got a lot harder, and so they acted like they didn't care anymore but could definitely totally dominate again if they wanted to -- they're just not in the mood lol.

It doesn't mean a lot of those guys weren't great warbirds, just that they weren't the worldbeating generational superstars they thought they were.

There weren't even playoffs or resolution caps in early TWLDs. Everyone remembers the past with rose-tinted glasses. I'm not trying to discredit any old player's accomplishments or play, most of them were great players and they won, and I tip my cap to them.

I'm just against you blowing them like they're some gods, it's pathetic. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Jones]

Claushouse


The screenshot I posted above is from res-restriction era and the ones about banzi's elim scores are too.

You can argue that Raspi was not at his prime during the time that blood beat him 9-0 in the elim finals, though.

I never saw FieryFire in his prime, so I can't comment on that.

You didn't play thousands of elims before me, otherwise you probably would have been pretty good when I joined HEAVY, briefly, in season 9. I am not looking to argue further than that. I apologize if I said something to offend you.

[ogron]

Reality:





What you saw when you joined the game:



All you would see is a veteran Blood shitting on everyone, then when people talk about how good Ease or DEEZ or Raspi is, you see 20 people come and say "lol, I saw Blood shit on Raspi in elim".

No shit, you're talking about new players who are learning the game against an established champion in his prime. You're comparing apples to oranges.

The majority of the generational superstars in warbird should emerge during the biggest population spike, so sometime after 1999-2001 and sometime before 2008, and that seems accurate to me. That's what math and bell curves and statistical samples tell us.

What are the odds that the greatest warbirds of all-time were the first players to join the zone inside of a much smaller population sample? Pretty low. You had a bunch of great WBs who all stacked on Siege and Elusive, won titles, then had the advantage of being veterans, having already won, and way less pressure in the playoffs.

If blood was active during the modern era, he'd be a Top 8 warbird in the zone, stack on Fierce, and win multiple titles. But those early birds probably aren't the unstoppable superstars you see them as. It's statistically unlikely, and the fact most weren't relevant past S5 is a good indicator of that.

I have legit respect for those players, they were great. But the notion that all the greatest warbirds to ever play were almost all from 1999-2001 and its small population is absurd.

[Crome]

Blood, thats an epic screenshot

EDIT: Banzi that was even more epic.

[banzi fuq]

Reality:


I have legit respect for those players, they were great. But the notion that all the greatest warbirds to ever play were almost all from 1999-2001 and its small population is absurd.

What kind of crazy charts u creating back there? Just curious. I like charts and stats.

Ultimately without a full set of stats its hard to normalize across years for resolutions, latency, whatever. We are all biased in many ways.

[Voth]

Basically, this is Ogron's way of trying to compare a dead zone with the same re-circulating, non-improving player base with the prime era of this game (and zone). Why? He wants to make sure that the TWLs and half-assed TWDTs that he himself won while stacking on squads with all the best players still matter in the eyes of the history of this game. They don't. It's fun that the leagues are still ongoing, but talk about comparing apples to oranges...

Ogron's surprising elevation to relevance has nothing to do with a sharp increase in skill on his part, and everything to do with a lack of skilled opposition and a cushy little spot flying his red ship behind arguably the best shark duo in history and a stacked spider line. Sorry, but the leagues from 2010 or so on are just not the same as before then. That little asterisk that everyone knows is there really bothers you, doesn't it?

Oh and by the way, this comes from the most undeserved TWL title winner in Trench Wars History. Shine my belts, thanks!

[ogron]

Voth This thread was about warbirds, only you could turn this into another one of your pathetic rants about me in base.

Watching you, Kthx, and the_paul's obsession with insulting current players because you were benchers and need to put others down to try to make yourselves feel better is sad.

Here's a recent TWLB Final and the "lack of skilled opposition". I'm sure Megaman89, Stayon, and JAMAL will be glad to hear how little you think of them.

Their first TWL Finals listed next to each player's name:



All those players are elite as hell, and you insulting them to just get at me is hilarious. As Ease said last night, "the basing scene is mostly the same as it has been". Basing started way later than WB, and most of the best players kept playing deep into the last decade.

But I'm glad you think so highly of TWLB before 2010.

Which of the 2009 TWLB Finals spiders on Pirates would you take over the players in the above final: Scoop (wb), Vys (wb), or Poxy? Death Row on -f- in 2007? I'm sure demonfaze in shark was a thrilling experience, I bet he practiced a lot. Ditto NOCKM in terr.

I'm not trashing any of those seasons, I would have loved to have played in them, and I tip my cap to everyone who won. They played in a deeper/wider league with more teams, later on had tougher semis/finals with less teams but stronger contenders at the top. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

In your mind apparently Light winning the regular season and no playoffs was a banner year. Be sure to inform everyone on Penetrate S14 and Dice S15 that they didn't make your 2010 cutoff and that they're garbage, I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear your opinion.

All you can do from spec is try to bring everyone down because you're bitter and angry about being on the bench. Forums are the only place you can compete. I feel bad for you.

[Voth]

Voth This thread was about warbirds, only you could turn this into another one of your pathetic rants about me in base.

Watching you, Kthx, and the_paul's obsession with insulting current players because you were benchers and need to put others down to try to make yourselves feel better is sad.

Here's a recent TWLB Final and the "lack of skilled opposition". I'm sure Megaman89, Stayon, and JAMAL will be glad to hear how little you think of them.

Their first TWL Finals listed next to each player's name:



All those players are elite as hell, and you insulting them to just get at me is hilarious. As Ease said last night, "the basing scene is mostly the same as it has been". Basing started way later than WB, and most of the best players kept playing deep into the last decade.

But I'm glad you think so highly of TWLB before 2010.

Which of the 2009 TWLB Finals spiders on Pirates would you take over the players in the above final: Scoop (wb), Vys (wb), or Poxy? Death Row on -f- in 2007? I'm sure demonfaze in shark was a thrilling experience, I bet he practiced a lot. Ditto NOCKM in terr.

I'm not trashing any of those seasons, I would have loved to have played in them, and I tip my cap to everyone who won. They played in a deeper/wider league with more teams, later on had tougher semis/finals with less teams but stronger contenders at the top. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

In your mind apparently Light winning the regular season and no playoffs was a banner year. Be sure to inform everyone on Penetrate S14 and Dice S15 that they didn't make your 2010 cutoff and that they're garbage, I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear your opinion.

All you can do from spec is try to bring everyone down because you're bitter and angry about being on the bench. Forums are the only place you can compete. I feel bad for you.

Just the fact that you took the time do this is enough. Thank you for this.

[ogron]

And you trashing TWDT is sad. It's been a great league since 2011, and has just gotten better. Nobody is suggesting winning TWDTs is akin to winning TWL in its prime. It's a fun league and the competition is wide instead of tall like TWL (if you read the forum posts from 2007 and 2008, everyone said TWLB S10 and S11 was a stacking joke between Pandora and Dice and nobody else had a chance.)

It gives a much broader group of players a chance to win, and also lets elite players put a feather in their cap and try to carry a team. Commodo just won his first TWDT-B having a great season on Spider, and I salute him. Winning as a max player and playing with new persons every season of varying skill levels is an interesting challenge and requires you to play differently.

It's a league you should be thrilled exists, and instead you're more interested in belittling it just to attack someone.

[Voth]

And you trashing TWDT is sad. It's been a great league since 2011, and has just gotten better. Nobody is suggesting winning TWDTs is akin to winning TWL in its prime. It's a fun league and the competition is wide instead of tall like TWL (if you read the forum posts from 2007 and 2008, everyone said TWLB S10 and S11 was a stacking joke between Pandora and Dice and nobody else had a chance.)

It gives a much broader group of players a chance to win, and also lets elite players put a feather in their cap and try to carry a team. Commodo just won his first TWDT-B having a great season on Spider, and I salute him. Winning as a max player and playing with new persons every season of varying skill levels is an interesting challenge and requires you to play differently.

It's a league you should be thrilled exists, and instead you're more interested in belittling it just to attack someone.

You're being silly. I'm not trashing TWDT - it's a great league and the only one worth running these days.

My only point with all of this was that of course you will take the position that you have -- you were a pub newbie until you somehow found yourself on a stacked squad and winning championships behind a stacked team. Of course the discussion of the greatness of players that effectively kept you out of the "competitive" scene will get you going - and it has, even before I chimed in.

[ogron]

Ultimately without a full set of stats its hard to normalize across years for resolutions, latency, whatever. We are all biased in many ways.

That's probably true.

I was a huge fan of you, Mattey, and Raspi in elim back then, the warbirding scene was awesome. We're all going to have different opinions on who was better when. My preference is the middle TWLD seasons, but I know there were some epic Siege vs. Elusive clashes early on, and even in the decline of the game I think Fierce vs. Pandora in the S17 finals was one of the best series ever.

Hard to compare, especially in WB, where there's a lot of burnout and not a lot of cross-generational players.

[ogron]

Started 1998 - here is screen shot circa 2000
Eph

that's a pretty cool photo of the OG basers, Eph, thanks!

[Wirah]

LOL at Paladen's Anti-Cripples banners

[NaiLed]

How do people still have these old screenshots almost 2 decades later? Nobody keeps their old Windows 98 towers, let alone their old 40 GB HDD around, do they? Maybe they're somewhere in the wayback machine though. I know you can find a couple snapshots of the old Crown of Thorns forums on that.

EDIT:

These might be a blast from the past for a few people:

http://web.archive.org/web/200304300...renchwars.org/ - earliest TWD snapshot (2003)

http://web.archive.org/web/200511091...rs.org/ladders - earliest TWD ladder snapshot (2005)

http://web.archive.org/web/200304250...renchwars.org/- earliest TWL snapshot (April 2003)

http://web.archive.org/web/200306231...renchwars.org/ - newer TWL website snapshot (June 2003)

whiterabbits and diso. my two favourites ㅠㅠ

[Kim]

Took most of my screenshots while staff. Here are some memorable ones: