Staff resignation. It's controversial like Jerry Springer in '97.

[Zerzera]

Galle, this thread shouldn't be abused to try and get yourself in staff. There is no way YOU could fix this problem. And another inactive ZH won't help the cause.

[Vykromond]

However, as to that PriitK comment:
He wrote it, and you couldn't force it from him with a lead pipe. Nor do you have the right to. Believe me, I want a version of Continuum that uses OpenGL and runs on OS X more than anybody, but he put his work into it, and if he wants to do anything with it, including wipe his ass with it, he has that right. It's his. If he never wants to release another version of the game forever, he has that right too. He doesn't owe it to anybody except in the sense that he has a loyal following for his game, and he shouldn't dick with them if he can avoid it.

Wow, Sarien, you're right!

However, as to that VIE comment:
They wrote it, and you couldn't force it from them with a lead pipe. Nor do you have the right to. Believe me, I want a version of Subspace that actually exists more than anybody, but they put their work into it, and if they want to do anything with it, including wipe their ass with it, they have that right. It's theirs. If they never wants to release another version of the game forever, they have that right too. They don't owe it to anybody except in the sense that they have a loyal following for their game, and they shouldn't dick with them if they can avoid it

Wow, Year 1996, you're right!

[Due]

1984 $ oh and as far as offering Qan Smod, another trick outta 1984. To keep the proles quiet, they upgraded them.....or killed em

2Dragons for Sysop. That guy knows his shit, is fair, is nice, and is incredibly smart. Kick Dock>. 2D 4 sysop 2005

2d got allrdy sysop powers.

[Due]

i agree with Qan about pl.

i always asked 1 thing:
why are the most staffers basers?

i guess b'coz pl is a baser to.

bla bla bla old story


Now that Rodge & Qan is gone from staff, twl will not start at the org date.
Staff lost 2 good ppl, sad to see that happen.

[Jeansi]

One question: is resigning really the best alternative? Can you make it better if you're not part of it?

There are big problems in upper staff, the (non-existent) two-way-discussions between staff and players and in the development of Continuum. But nobody gets payed so there will be a time at which people say "ah fuck this, I don't have time to do it". Well there are people out here that are interested in developing the zone. Let them do it for a while.

I think it's ok for a smod to take a break and keep his smod status (what harm does it do??), as long as another guy is taken in too.

And about eventbot, I agree with dock, it wasn't a very good idea. It would just be dm, gatez, turretwarz, javs and boki 24/7.

Woah I just read all those posts in one sitting and it took me nearly 20 minutes so I forgot most of what I was about to type, so excuse me for the non-coherent paragraphs and sentances

[Due]

And about eventbot, I agree with dock, it wasn't a very good idea. It would just be dm, gatez, turretwarz, javs and boki 24/7.

i disagree, it was a good idea.

[Volcs]

Holy shit, Qan... I've never seen anyone do that. I mean, I've heard the points before, but no one has ever said it in an effective and respectable form.
I don't have a clue who you are, but I wanted to say thank you for actually saying that. I don't agree with all of it, but I'm glad everything was brought up.

Another issue that I feel is of extreme importance is the intentions new staffers have. They don't give a shit about helping, their main goal is to become a popular and superior TW player. Example: Event Refs in general. There are some amazing games that I haven't played in years, solely because they are not 90% bot operated. There are too many lazy fucks that rely on a bot to do their job.
I think some bot-operations took alot from TW, not to underestimate what they did (we wouldn't have cool games like hunt).
<ER> is no longer a responsibility, it's a status symbol.

To be honest, I think one of the best methods for staff recruitment was KJW's staff-squad (Paladen). It wasn't him just hiring who he liked, it was him picking people who had had a lot of experience in TW and he actually knew well and felt were well suited for staff.
It wasn't just pub-newbs with good attitudes who have been playing the game for less than 5 months.
I can think of way too many instances where I would call ?help about something and end up having to tell them to turn off ?obscene and then figure it out on my own or ask people in chats.

I suggest that bans be kept private but when someone wants to appeal their ban then the eventual ruling should be made public, whether the ban is lifted or retained, along with a brief explanation for the decision. I think this would put more faith in the process for the general public.

I think ban information should be accessible. If it was, I would know which staffmember was responsible for my TW lockout.
I was caught under a very strange ban for 9 months.

I was banned without warning and got pretty pissed, started logging in repetitively spamming staff with ban login messages, eventually they figured out a way to stop me. The ban expired after 1 day yet I was unable to access TW. I changed my macID and it still wouldn't work. The message told me that my name was banned (despite trying many other names) but no ban was listed, someone suggested that maybe I was *kill999999ed but this doesn't make sense. Noone ever took responsibility for doing this, or told anyone how to lift the ban. I was banned from TW for 9 months just because I pissed off some stupid staffers that didn't know how to hit !notify.

Quality example of the ban system right there.

[Edify]

just want to let u know i've been reading every single post up to the middle of the second page.

The robo_help bot is also the finest piece of work ever. Now not only does ZHs not have to know jack shit about game specifics, they can use robo_help to send you retarded ass messages as an insult if you don't ask the right questions! Horray!

this is so true!

the only thing i really remember about Dock> is that he sits around in roboland all day and doesnt make public appearances. play the freakin game, old man! then you'd be able to see what's changed since u were a lowly 'newb', if u ever were. i've seen him once come out of # and into a turretwarz2 game that cranium <ZH> was hosting and do a *recycle on the arena! ??? there were atleast 50+ ppl in there that said "wtf"? apparently cranium had prized prox or super...which was not allowed?

ZH's are trained to use a bot to help people. This has gone from each case being handled with care, to the option of using the aforementioned robohelp. In the "good ol' days", staff members were at least encouraged to ask the person who had done a ?help if the bot's answer had been enough. Now the bot does that for them. The large majority of the ?help calls that ZH's now take, and actually put any time in to, are people wanting wbduel started. A 30 second task that requires no hint of public
relations.

where is the fine line between ER and ZH anyways? to me, they look exactly the same minus a few different characters in the english alphabet. so ZH's are allowed to host, or are they just sitting around waiting to answer ur help calls? if so, then we don't need so many of them.

and i might add, i thought YoMama!!! was perfectly good as Dean of Staff.

[Volcs]

and i might add, i thought YoMama!!! was perfectly good as Dean of Staff.

I didn't see that one coming he's in your signature, that's obviously a biased point of view.

Like I said, despite not being on the greatest of terms with KJW, I think he was the most effective.
AND - I think the real downfall of deans started with Poid. I had never, until then, seen a pub newb with not even the most basic knowledge of TW get ZH. Getting staff should not be a reward for personal services.

[Da1andonly]

I just disagree with 2d being fair. If he thinks an extremely laggy almost unkillable terrier in a final twlb match is fair...then perhaps I'm the one who's wrong. You decide.

[Vehicle]

To clear a few things up: If you prize prox in turretwarz (or any other arena for that matter) the system goes ape shit. The people who have the prox get dced, and the only way to stop it is to recycle the arena.

There is no way to make an impersonal Dean of Staff. People talk to other people and form their own opinions. And let us not forget, (one of the) the reason(s) there is a Dean is so that they sift through all the idiots.

EventBot is a dumb idea. Generally, most people want 3 events: twtown, twcity, and hunt. Now, if these events were all that ER's hosted, would anyone be very happy?

Toked: To say that racism should be legal is stupid. There's no reason for anyone to have to call someone the N word in a game. It's offensive to people in real life (or on the streets as you put it) and it's offensive to people in the game.

As for the hosting thing, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but i've hosted 2? 3? javtourny's this month:
3flag 1
altbase 1
baseelim2 1
boki 1
cloaks 1
enigma 1
fishies 2
javstech 1
javtourny 4
javufc 1
leviwars 1
mario 2
pallies 1
retrotanks 1
safewars 1
spiderdm 1
strikeball 1
tanks 1
tanks2 1
thorlob 1
twcity 1
twisted 1
vehicle2 1
webcrawler 1
zombies 2
zombies3 1
(This is not counting the past week or 2, because staffbot is down)

Robohelp and training is an issue, but let us not forget, Rodge_Rabbit (before he quit) was in charge of staff training.

Overall, I think a lot of people are stating their opinions when they aren't fully aware of the issue.

[Dr_Chicken]

WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE
How much are we paying for Trench Wars? Zippo, Nada, Zilch.

Hey, here's a great idea, let's have a $5 monthly fee, then we can all get all the fixes, new versions, ect we want.

[Volcs]

So Underdog, in 30 days you've hosted 40 events? which is like... an event or two a day pretty much? Wow, half an hour of your life is gone every day and you sacrificed it for the petty TWers... You hosted ONE EVENT A DAY, I remember people that hosted for 5 hours straight, when it took an hour to manually host a WB tourny they'd do two in a row and then keep going with other events. The fact that you think hosting an event a day is sufficient shows exactly how lazy ERs have become.

WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE
How much are we paying for Trench Wars? Zippo, Nada, Zilch.

Hey, here's a great idea, let's have a $5 monthly fee, then we can all get all the fixes, new versions, ect we want.

omg.. don't even bring up pay to play...

But then again, you've brought up some good perspective. We get this for absolutely nothing, some people have made some sacrifices for our own personal entertainment. I appreciate what Dock> and Priitk have done. But I do not appreciate many other staffers because I know they aren't in it for the good of TW.

[Zerzera]

Some people might actually put the stuff they do here in their portfolio, or they must find some other reward in keeping this alive, otherwise this game had died the day that VIE pulled the plug.
And while there is over 700 people a day playing here, it's worth keeping it alive, and you need to recieve feedback.
When people talk about certain projects failing in TW, they often bring up that noone gets payed. But I tell you something, most payed projects don't reach their deadline or fail too.
So there is nothing strange about that, but you have to learn from the mistakes made and keep documents from the old projects.
Like Dock> said, the training of staff has been brought up and tried alot before, and all times it failed. And this time again it slowly fades.
If you are working with over 50 staffers, you can't just come with an idea and start implementing it. You have to start it off as a project and see if you have the support and recourses in the first place, before you even start.
For instance, you realise that the community isn't satisfied with staff, you can then either find out why, or just force all 50 staffers to suddenly start to train or something..
You should understand how big a thing to organise changes are in a zone where you try to entertain over 700 people, and you are always communicating trough a game over email.
And it doesn't help to just recruit more staffers, because that would only make it harder to communicate.

[Dr_Chicken]

But then again, you've brought up some good perspective. We get this for absolutely nothing, some people have made some sacrifices for our own personal entertainment. I appreciate what Dock> and Priitk have done. But I do not appreciate many other staffers because I know they aren't in it for the good of TW.

The other thing is when people get in a position of power they want more and they won't give up the power they have. The other thing is, you aren't going to accept some no name "newb" to run events. You'd rather have some well known leet vet asshole to do it.