TW looking to hire Java coders to staff positions

[DoCk>]

TWCore: I'm not completely sure about this and I might be miles off from the mark. But I think I was talking to Mythrandir like ages ago about bots and he said that they've had some problems with having too many bots online so something started malfunctioning. I have no idea if this had anything to do CPU usage or anything, but maybe someone who knows more might enlighten me about this matter.

Um, yeah. Server has a hard limit of packets per minute per ip address, so if there's too many bots running they'll all lag out. We solved this problem by making lots of bots run on the tw server, using the loopback pool. Since there are 256^3 ip addresses in the pool, this eliminated the problem. For the off-server bots, we're starting to use more than one IP address.

We don't even come close to having a performance problem with Java, we're talking about nearly nil CPU usage here.

[Morroco]

Um, yeah. Server has a hard limit of packets per minute per ip address, so if there's too many bots running they'll all lag out. We solved this problem by making lots of bots run on the tw server, using the loopback pool. Since there are 256^3 ip addresses in the pool, this eliminated the problem. For the off-server bots, we're starting to use more than one IP address.

I figured there would be quite a bit of ip addresses, but holy shit.. That must have a hard limit of packets from each ip address. I dont follow on the loopback pool though...

[Rob Dougan]

*sigh*

I DID say you shouldn't swallow it blindly. It just gives some direction.

Sorry about that, I misinterpreted. I understand English isn't your first language and let's just leave it as something's been lost in translation.

But few things about that post. Firstly, if some language is taught in schools, I'd say it counts in the "popularity" of the language. The site itself said it doesn't even try to count the lines written in the languages.

Just because something's known by a large number of people doesn't mean it's popular. This is why we have words such as "notorious" and "infamous".

Then Lisp. I'm on this IRC channel with computer science students. I've heard about C there, I've heard about C++. I'm pretty sure someone mentioned Perl, Java and Python. But on top of those, I've only seen talk about Lisp. It's not that dead.

I never said that Lisp is a dead language. In fact, I got the new version of CLisp last week. It's just not a widely used language.

Then about Java. If you're talking about garbage collection, you can do that for C++ too.

I know you can do garbage collection in C++. It doesn't come by default (of course, maybe MS or Borland have added it by default in their C++ compilers...I don't know since I don't use them).

TWCore: I'm not completely sure about this and I might be miles off from the mark. But I think I was talking to Mythrandir like ages ago about bots and he said that they've had some problems with having too many bots online so something started malfunctioning. I have no idea if this had anything to do CPU usage or anything, but maybe someone who knows more might enlighten me about this matter.

I know more about this. To which particular occurence you might be referring, I don't know. There are several to choose from including, but not limited to, problems with the mysql driver, bots caching too much crap, improper handling of threads, improper protection of data for threading, and overuse of timers (without cleanup), just to name a few. These problems were due to factors within TWCore itself (and the mysql driver). These problems have been realized and fixed as they've come up.

Of course, realize what you're proposing. You're suggesting we throw out a huge chunk of operational code, including dozens of bots, to change the underlying language. If you want to port them, have at it.

[Kuukunen]

Um, yeah. Server has a hard limit of packets per minute per ip address, so if there's too many bots running they'll all lag out. We solved this problem by making lots of bots run on the tw server, using the loopback pool. Since there are 256^3 ip addresses in the pool, this eliminated the problem. For the off-server bots, we're starting to use more than one IP address.

We don't even come close to having a performance problem with Java, we're talking about nearly nil CPU usage here.

Yea thought it was something like that, would be rather weird if some simple bots hogged that much cpu.

But! Now that you're here, I have to ask you something. You said " If Google can build Gmail with it". Where did you find out gmail was built with Java? I looked into it and found only mentions of Javascript, which Gmail heavily relies on. I did find one not so professional looking site mentioning Java, but I think he got Javascript mixed.

[Kuukunen]

Of course, realize what you're proposing. You're suggesting we throw out a huge chunk of operational code, including dozens of bots, to change the underlying language. If you want to port them, have at it.

Not really. :P

[DoCk>]

If Google can build Gmail with it". Where did you find out gmail was built with Java?

Heresay and speculation. Always useful.

[Nikolai]

My Brother is well know to Java and everything else, he also tried to make a continuum version for his mac, because there is noone but he doesn't gets the conifgs and couldn't get them legal, so I am going to ask him, if he wants to help out a little.

[Rab]

I'm studying Java for my degree at the moment . I have studied for one year and am about to start my second. I am interested in helping out, contact me at to discuss.

[Kuukunen]

Java Continuum? Argh.

[D1st0rt]

The only java clients that are possible right now are subspace clients and not continuum clients because the encryption isn't available to anyone.

[Kuukunen]

Yea, it's not one or two people who have tried to make Linux version of Continuum and ran into that problem

[Money]

opps wrong thread

[T3l Ca7]

Honestly, if you know C++, you know Java because its almost identical except that its easier.

I would consider java much easier than c++ mainly because of the "lack" of pointers and the automatic garbage collection. Most of the syntax is shared between the two languages and a lot of the differences are just different wordings/interpretations of the same concept

I would agree with you if you changed "C++" to "C and C++" :P

Java is better than C++ in many ways, such as inheritence and pointers, but I prefer C++ to Java because you can embed C in C++ easily ... and most of C operations are way faster than Java's if you are talented and experienced coder.

Java and C/C++ are used for different purposes, Java is favoured for its web capability, however you will never see any system kernel get written in Java - simply because C is way faster and more versatile. For example Linux is written in C, SubSpace/Continuum is written in C++ (I am talking about the game itself not the bots).

As for TWcore, it doesn't make any difference whether it's written in C++ or Java. But since a large chunk of the code has already been developed in Java, it is just much easier to add stuff using Java.

[D1st0rt]

I think Mac OSX has Java pretty well embedded if I remember correctly

[T3l Ca7]

And appearently you have no idea what you are talking about.