too many javs

[Theif of Time]

Players in public play, because of the freedom of ship, rather than the bordem fest of ?go cramslashcampville.

to whoever said along the lines of "freedom of picking their own ship" is an arguement that should not be taken into consideration since you have already taken away the levi.

I challenge your grounds for the off the hand dismissal of mootlands comment. You imply that because Levis have already been removed, freedom of ship choice of ship is near nonexistant so it won't matter if you place more restrictions?
I argue otherwise. Levi's removal was justified to further basing, as it has been shown that levis presence can severely off balance a basing game. Javelins really do not have the kind of impact a levi has. People are still free to jav... if they choose. People are not free to levi... because levis have been removed so they don't off balance a basing game.

Also, the point has not yet been addressed of how to make it 'fair' for who gets what ship. You may have noticed that javs are popular. If you place restrictions, you people will vie for the javelin spot, naturally. People will hog it, people will get jav and sit in spec, staff members may even abuse their powers to get the spot.
In the past upper staff has been against ideas that involve more work for them. How are you going to convince them otherwise? Sure, a bot could be coded to oversee everything. But there is no 'fair' way to choose who gets to jav. I challenge you to provide one, and one that is logistically possible (ie doesn't require a staff member to sit in spec watching the whole thing to make sure everyone gets a fair turn. While fair, who the fuck would want the job?)


Also, I'd like to know what reasons you have for the banning of weasel. I can only hope its not another Tone-weasel-gate.


I think another point Mootland was making (Or if not, a point I'd like to make)
Pub is meant to be free. For mucking around, for having fun. Its not meant to be as serious as ?go base. (hence the ?go cramslashcampville comment... base is far too serious most of the time.)
Another point: Its not so much the ships that are the problem. Its the players. Some people just can't jav to save their lives, but its a fun ship for them to play.

[Sumpson]

I agree, get rid of the mess in pub and make it a game.

[Troll King]

I have a theory that the lack of a levi causes more people to want to play jav. It's possible that many levi pilots, realizing they can't fly their usual ship, would tend to switch into javs as they can offer a similar kind of explosive destruction. If players like bombs and they can't fly a levi, they're left with sharks and javs. While many reckless levi pilots switch to become reckless sharks, javs are a more glamourous ship and would be more likely alternatives. And in regular pubs, when a levi threatens the base, javs often switch into warbirds or lancs to hunt them, as staying in the flag room lobbing bombs becomes more dangerous with L3's rocking the house.

I don't have the numbers to back this up, so it is only a theory at this point, but maybe someone should take a look.

As for banning the weasel, if you take it and the levi out and leave 6 ship choices, a very possible scenario is that a larger percentage will choose to play javs and yet again add to the problem. The trend then seems to be to limit javs, and eventually all we'll have is the same combinations used in basing games. These added restrictions will turn off the casual player and turn pure pub into something I've longed campaigned against: a playground for only the basing elite.

[Theif of Time]

If weasel is being taken out... replace it. Nightwasp. Theres no point to keeping it around anymore if people want to remove it.

Might be a difficult theory to back up, TK, as with two pure pubs the cream of pub basing (such as it is) tends to gravitate towards the pure arenas. While basing may still occur in the levi pubs, its usually pretty poor. Maybe next time the bots die.

[Spikester]

If weasel is being taken out... replace it. Nightwasp. Theres no point to keeping it around anymore if people want to remove it.

Might be a difficult theory to back up, TK, as with two pure pubs the cream of pub basing (such as it is) tends to gravitate towards the pure arenas. While basing may still occur in the levi pubs, its usually pretty poor. Maybe next time the bots die.

I like to cloak

[Doc Flabby]

im a leet weasel - remove it and i will have to jav in base......

[ECT]

In my opinion, pubs are arenas where players should be able to go and play without any ship restrictions, seeing as it is a public arena, and not meaning to undermine any pubbers, it's full of n00bs. Having ship restrictions such as these would take away enjoyment from many new players to the game, who just want to have fun. Besides, it's not like there's only one pub to play in, there are many, so if one has too many javs change pubs. But don't take away the principles of the most basic, yet in some ways enjoyable arena of tw.

[bounty]

I agree with ETC about pub being a place for players to find and develop their own playing style and rythm. A number of ship restrictions is taking away the variety and fun of the game.

[Sumpson]

... These added restrictions will turn off the casual player and turn pure pub into something I've longed campaigned against: a playground for only the basing elite.

Why? let's expand it, let's make people get into the game some more so they stick with it, what are people supposed to play in public?

Perhaps another idea would be to have like 3 different public styles divided in different pub arena's.

[deaL]

yeah it sucks when the fr is jammed with newb javs, you still have to remember it is pub. If your going to put so many ship restrictions in pub just call it something else. The whole fun of pub is the freedom to do whatever you want. If some newb (me) wants to be a jav in pub who cares?

[Troll King]

If we want to expand it then I'm all for it. But as long as it's limited to a couple of pubs, casual players will get turned away and any benefits the elite get in the private pubs will come at the expense of the rest. If we're going to make any changes, make them for everyone, not just for a single pub where the elite continue to tinker with it and drive away the casual players. If the goal is to get the casual player to base, telling them they can't play a certain ship won't help the cause. By restricting jav numbers and banning weasels in addition to levis, players will be stuck with choosing either warbirds, lancs, spiders, terrs or sharks. Terrs aren't a popular choice, and too many sharks can be worse than too many javs. Casual players won't likely play those two. If you were a casual pubber, would you put up with those restrictions and play with essentially three choices of ships, or would you say "just screw it" and leave for a regular pub?

We'd all like to improve the zone, but the only suggestions I've heard are ways to improve the pure pubs. At the same time, people are saying pure pubs are the only ones worth playing and the regular pubs are completely messed up. Why then are we putting more effort into the areas that are already better off than the ones that actually need it? No one's looking beyond the immediate benefits at the repercussions right now.

[PH]

Terrs aren't a popular choice

Watch a few rounds of the !warp effect in pub 0. It's comedy and tragedy in one package. Shakespeare would be proud.

The anti-TK feature (warning and/or shipchanging for excessive TKs) that was used for a while was a good idea, but it lacked the one thing that would have actually made pubs semi-playable again: locking a player in a non-bombing ship. Simply shipchanging the offender did nothing, as they could switch right back like nothing happened. I think the bot should lock the player in a spider for a set amount of time, then allow them to change back, and if they continue to TK then increase the lock time.

Yeah, I'm pulling ideas out of my ass. I rule.

[Izor]

For once I agree with Troll King. I dont know if many people here have had the experience of starting from scratch on this game since pure pubs have been here and difficult to get in, but since the top pub is filled most of the time and that has most of the basing, I cant imagine what a new player would think about the game. Especially in one of the regular pubs, cause even if the pubber gets to the goal usually someone in a levterr is there to own him. I can speak from experience when I say that as a newbie this game isnt fun without having some pub basing when you're starting out, and there is absolutely none in those pubs since the smarter players dont play them. A newbie wont know to switch what arena hes in to get a better game and enough of that might discourage him from logging on. Also as much as you people think that levterrs are the most horrible thing to basing theres nothing quite as entertaining as seeing some lameass newbs with 500 bounty die to one of your traps.

The playerbase has reflected that these changes in general arent working..some new players have come in for the basing community but thats about it..the dueling community hasnt seen anyone new really come in and make an impact and the game will become stagnant eventually.

[Jones]

I argue otherwise. Levi's removal was justified to further basing, as it has been shown that levis presence can severely off balance a basing game. Javelins really do not have the kind of impact a levi

yes they do if they come in numbers which they do

Also, I'd like to know what reasons you have for the banning of weasel. I can only hope its not another Tone-weasel-gate.

removing it or making it bigger. have you seen a team which consists of one terr sitting on the roof and the only ones that attack you are 4 weasels from the roof when you completely dominate mid-base? i have many times. and im lucky if i hit 50 kills per reset

n my opinion, pubs are arenas where players should be able to go and play without any ship restrictions, seeing as it is a public arena, and not meaning to undermine any pubbers, it's full of n00bs.

i agree but its too late now so they have to imo change more.

[JeBu]

this way pub would be much more fun for veterans like we see what players have posted here. What do we lose if we test this idea for one month?

And it's not only for veterans also some newbies like this idea and most are against it because they can't imagine what kind of pubbing it would be. And it would be much better than current one.