Bot suggestions

[A_S_S_wipe]

I like the bot in Chaos zone (Assault bot) that messages the arena with such information as multi-kills and such. I also like their Chaos-Bot that allows you to purchase special rewards. Examples, if you haven't been to Chaos, are the rabbit bonus and the "devour" bonus.

After you collect these bonuses, every 500 points there, you can use them to let the bot prize you specials. In the case of rabbit, you get a huge bounty and a brick every minute in a half. The enemy hunts you in the meantime. In the case of "devour", you get the special items from the enemies that you kill for a duration of 8 kills, or till you die.

I'm not advocating a direct copy from Chaos Zone's bots, but can't we also have special bots to make things more fun?

Also on this subject, the team macros have about 8 options for "voice" wave files that play a team macro announcement (i.e., %154 = ""Out of reps"", in a ladies voice). These are supposed to facilitate team organization, and work toward fostering a unified understanding of immediate team capabilities. I believe that the inclusion of similar "robust" arena features may help diminish the mass exodus of players that TW server appears to be experiencing.

Just need players's opinions. Comments?

[Kolar]

The lack of green spam and simple prizing are some of the things that makes this zone what it is when compared to super ship zones or SVS. ?buy works in TW, goto a safe zone. Sounds for players will never be enabled.

Publics need more work on settings and other fundamental things. The lancaster, levi and weasel all need to be worked on not only so we can unify league and public settings but because the lack of basing/ANYTHING fun in the arenas (Not some flashy crap but being lamed, LTed to death or just bored with the million private frequencies or dealing with the uneducated masses) is causing people to either move on to elim/b-email, javs, basing or just leave the game.

Our average population is not diminishing but we are not seeing 700+ as in what most would call the "golden" days of this zone. I don't see a big problem with it, things change and this game is old but ignoring that for a second... I would consider making these changes just so we can have some fun again in publics.

[A_S_S_wipe]

It's not green spam in Chaos, its blue text. I agree with most of what you said, Kolar.

The ?buy is mostly useless, unless your a levi buying reps or a rocket, or a spider buying antiwarp for some expensive fun. Maybe Terrs could buy antiwarp after 100 sequential team greens, but without having to go to a safe, and, of course, being able to run anti in the first palce.

Yes, I am agreeing that some more fun, but not too distracting, versatile abilities should be allowed in pub. Why pub? Well, if you look at base arenas, they aren't THAT popular, or else we wouldn't have 6 pub arenas full while we are begged to ?go base or ?go elim for the supposed "loved" arenas. I may have phrased that sort of extremely, but the fact remains that TW player base is predominantly for leisurely time occupying pub rampage, regardless of ship specifics.

If we can update our pub appeal, then wouldn't that aspect increase pub player loyalty, and by derivation the potential for the non-pub specialty arenas to prosper by way of greater interest of new players and retention of a large (for now) player base? If the same old one-shot death, spawn 3 times, fly 1 inch, die, game scheme prevails much longer, more people like myself will spend more time in other zones.

Take Mystic Kingdom or whatever. It's different, and has been really worked on lately. Mod support of public arenas makes it very interesting. It's caught my interest, aside from Chaos as a free for all.

Yeah, the private freqs in Trench dont support basing in pub. It's not all the LT's fault, though some manage to ruin the whole arena, by owning them and denying the dis-advantaged frequencies the team-green advantage to the terr, etc..
A different animal that might need to be addressed before new bots for enhanced game play.

[Kolar]

?go base has a limit of 16 players per game aswell basing arenas can not support many people without lag being a major factor, the basing community is pretty big so don't assume it's unpopular. Publics are highly populated because if I were to pick someone at random right now and ask them to goto a sub arena they'd say "uhh, wtf is that?", it's simply populated, not popular.


I'm gonna say this as polite as I can: just don't use intelligent -looking- words if it doesn't fit your writing style, I can barely read it. It is interchanable.. the more players that stay around in public the more likely they are to discover sub arenas, leagues and other fun things. I think the loss of balance and update to the public map and settings has seen many leave the game aswell go (into) other parts of the game when they're probably not mature enough to actually be in leagues.. staff or active in the community.

I think we need to work on making the game fun for what it was meant for in the first place if we are to see an increase in player population. Specialized bots, prizing systems ect.. comes last on my list. The only way anything will happen is if ECT and TWDev has direct control over what goes into new designs.

[A_S_S_wipe]

Well, lets start seeing some of these new ideas in pub. Most people come to TW to one-shot kill others, it's a unique feature of all the current zones. I'm not under-estimating the popularity of ?go base, but my argument still stands that if they were more popular, then you could go into any pub and ask random players about said arena, without them (in your own words) going "whaaaa?" or "huh?".

Fact is the cows are going to other pastures.

Ok, talk is cheap, how do we test and poll these idea? I haven't seen a weekend setting test in like 6 months, it seems. Can we at least poll or vote on change? I understand that the powers that be, "seem" to be pussy-footing the idea of making changes, and in the meantime TW grows suckier every time I log on. Others I'm sure must feel the same, or else the other zones wouldn't be gaining popularity while TW loses status. I only the tide to turn, back to TW being elite fun and not boring. Check out the name-tag: You're in MY world, NOW, Grandma. Err, no, sonny, you're in MY world!

Trench = saggy tittied grandma feeding us oatmeal. Can't we have some bacon? Or some toast at least? Granny?

[Edify]

I believe that the inclusion of similar "robust" arena features may help diminish the mass exodus of players that TW server appears to be experiencing.

I can see it now... massive %12 spamming in pubs... ahh the joy of sound. Then when people die they'll have a macro that says "I died %28". Don't ask me why I know some of the sounds.

[Izor]

Our average population is not diminishing but we are not seeing 700+ as in what most would call the "golden" days of this zone.

You say this but its pretty undeniable that the playerbase IS going down. In these 'golden days' of the zone the majority of players would be in pubs, and this is before you have the invention of purepubs. The fact is theres almost no new talent coming in from pub so when people quit there is no one to come replace them. Why is that? Just look at how its set up now. People are supposed to come out of pure basing pubs and go to ?go base and then get in a BD squad then an LB squad. The problem is that when a player comes out of a pub to go experience 'real' basing in ?go base, they find out that only the same group of players will get picked. I don't know what theyre expected to do except wait until they're the last possible option in one game, but not many people like to stick around for that. I suppose they could get in the equivalent of whatever squad basingcrew had to 'train' people and just play. That was effective I suppose, but as a 100% wb squad we would beat them 15-1. You really have to like the game to sit through games like that. Perhaps instead of suggesting new ideas to work with these threads should be about reverting to something that worked in the past until it was yanked.

EDIT: dont let the new bots that have been added over the past several months fool you into thinking that real players arent leaving. And dont be so narrow minded to believe that the basing community is so large, when some of its members are asking for a 12 team season as opposed to 14

[End]

The lack of green spam and simple prizing are some of the things that makes this zone what it is when compared to super ship zones or SVS. ?buy works in TW, goto a safe zone. Sounds for players will never be enabled.

Publics need more work on settings and other fundamental things. The lancaster, levi and weasel all need to be worked on not only so we can unify league and public settings but because the lack of basing/ANYTHING fun in the arenas (Not some flashy crap but being lamed, LTed to death or just bored with the million private frequencies or dealing with the uneducated masses) is causing people to either move on to elim/b-email, javs, basing or just leave the game.

Our average population is not diminishing but we are not seeing 700+ as in what most would call the "golden" days of this zone. I don't see a big problem with it, things change and this game is old but ignoring that for a second... I would consider making these changes just so we can have some fun again in publics.

Well Kolar id like to say i mostly agree with you. This game is very old and mature and has a stable core of players. That last 200 players come every summer and the population always rises towards 700, i would say we are not in a recession but just on a downward part of an upward sloping curve. The population is rising and im seeing new teams forming and new players in base.

TWBD is probably right now at the best it has been with a number of teams evenly spread across the board, except for dice because they cheat. I think maybe to make pubs more interesting we could work on the idea of permanently buying upgrades for ships. Id propose that you were only allowed to buy upgrades for one of the eight ships that you choose at the beggining. Then it costs a large number of points, meaning you have to play pub, to buy upgrads. Upgrads could include damaga upgrades/5 mine limit/speed/rotation however the upgrades would not be so powerful that other ships could not kill you if teamed. I think this would lead to a greater amount playing in public and it would not just be based on hours played as youd still need skill to play your ship and the flag for points.

[Izor]

Yes, End, the amount of players in the summer is going to double from what we have now. And thats before you take out the seasonal players that quit right after league to go play other zones or have lives during the summer (which keep in mind is a good deal of players). Great upwards curve

[Troll King]

You say this but its pretty undeniable that the playerbase IS going down. In these 'golden days' of the zone the majority of players would be in pubs, and this is before you have the invention of purepubs. The fact is theres almost no new talent coming in from pub so when people quit there is no one to come replace them. Why is that? Just look at how its set up now. People are supposed to come out of pure basing pubs and go to ?go base and then get in a BD squad then an LB squad. The problem is that when a player comes out of a pub to go experience 'real' basing in ?go base, they find out that only the same group of players will get picked. I don't know what theyre expected to do except wait until they're the last possible option in one game, but not many people like to stick around for that. I suppose they could get in the equivalent of whatever squad basingcrew had to 'train' people and just play. That was effective I suppose, but as a 100% wb squad we would beat them 15-1. You really have to like the game to sit through games like that. Perhaps instead of suggesting new ideas to work with these threads should be about reverting to something that worked in the past until it was yanked.

EDIT: dont let the new bots that have been added over the past several months fool you into thinking that real players arent leaving. And dont be so narrow minded to believe that the basing community is so large, when some of its members are asking for a 12 team season as opposed to 14

You're forgeting the main cause of this problem and that's how the veteran players for the most part don't play in pubs anymore. If people got over that "too good for pub" attitude and actually went in there, that would alleviate a lot of the concerns you addressed here.

[Kolar]

You say this but its pretty undeniable that the playerbase IS going down. In these 'golden days' of the zone the majority of players would be in pubs, and this is before you have the invention of purepubs. The fact is theres almost no new talent coming in from pub so when people quit there is no one to come replace them. Why is that?

Just look at how its set up now. People are supposed to come out of pure basing pubs and go to ?go base and then get in a BD squad then an LB squad. The problem is that when a player comes out of a pub to go experience 'real' basing in ?go base, they find out that only the same group of players will get picked. I don't know what theyre expected to do except wait until they're the last possible option in one game, but not many people like to stick around for that. I suppose they could get in the equivalent of whatever squad basingcrew had to 'train' people and just play. That was effective I suppose, but as a 100% wb squad we would beat them 15-1. You really have to like the game to sit through games like that. Perhaps instead of suggesting new ideas to work with these threads should be about reverting to something that worked in the past until it was yanked.

EDIT: dont let the new bots that have been added over the past several months fool you into thinking that real players arent leaving. And dont be so narrow minded to believe that the basing community is so large, when some of its members are asking for a 12 team season as opposed to 14

It is going down but not as sharply as you and others believe. I don't have any facts over the span of 2005 but on average 350-420 concurrently play.

I think pure publics favors putting people into basing, it doesn't expose them to everything in this zone. The changes to ships and the map has turned some people way from publics both new players and older players. It was a bandaid solution which is failing. Publics need to be as fun as real basing and the bottle neck at TWBD and ?go base.



I think as you Izor and your squad continue to say players in basing should have no opinion or say in TWDD happenings... maybe you should be involved in it in the smallest way first; past, present and future. TWBD is unstable.

[inigmatus]

I have an idea for pub that I am working on:

Switch out pub maps on a weekly or daily basis, rotating between 3-7 high quality maps.

I have a map I am working on to make trenchwars, "trenchwars" -

Its the standard asteroid-surrounded battlefield but with two bases, one top for freq 0 and one bottom for freq1. The bases are about the size of the traditional flag room in pub now, but in a more box-like (pioneer fort like) setup. The spawn points are split to safe zones that are the poles of the battlefield - each team spawning at their own field.

Between the two bases is the standard field of asteroids (lighter in number than pub now).

Splitting the battlefield in half is a border zone made up of a no-mans land roughly encased by two loosely defined straight walls from one end of the battlefield to the other end forming a wide "trench" for the no-mans land in between them. The walls are loosely defined - meaning they are simple 1-4 brick walls lined up from end to end with many gaps in between for good pilots to rush through them.

The no-man's land between the two walls is an open space potmarked with a heavier density of asteroids and/or 1,2,3, and even one or two 4 brick walls for cover.

Between a team's base and the border zone, within the standard field of asteroids, are two small equidistant pillboxes on the left and right, roughly a quarter size of the team's base.

The entrence to the pill box is from "behind" meaning toward the base. The door to the pillbox open and closes on a timer.

The pillboxes have one hole to shoot through on the three sides except for the door side, and they are big enough to provide an "encasement" inside big enough to provide cover from shrapnel for the defenders. The encasement is no bigger than a ship, with its entrence facing a protected corner. The pillbox is small enough though to have any levi bomb that hits it to destroy all but the most-charged up ships inside it.

The battlefields between the bases and the pillboxes and the border zone is a standard-pub dense asteroid field with the occasional 1-9 brick defensive cover station.

There are six flags. One for each base, and one for each pillbox. If a team captures all four pillbox flags, or just the enemy base flag for 3 consecutive minutes, they win.

What do you think? Putting the "trench" back into "trenchwars".

[A_S_S_wipe]

I like the idea of "the glory days" of Trench. Back when the weasels had infinite cloak and were normal sized, and the levis had 4 reps and could fire immediately after getting a full charge green.

I suspect that the weasels size change has influenced players's choices of ships. Let's face it, the weasel is tough little target, and it can shoot about every three seconds and still thrust 2 or 3 screens away. It's a REAL pain in the ass. Now look at all the weasels that haunt the vent holes in base. In the old days, these players would probably get in a jav.

The javs in those days were relied upon to skill shot base levis, and we used to enjoy that aspect immensely. The greening levs were easily tormented by the full sized, infinite cloaked weasels, and the spiders ruled mid. good times I sadly miss.

I wish we could have an "old trench" weekend. Anyone? At least fix the weasels.

[Izor]

the "too good for pub" attitude has always been around. Regardless it never stopped anyone from occasionally visiting pub to levterr. Purepub has been around for long enough to evaluate how effective it is though. The goal of it from what I perceive was to promote basing without it being ruined by lamers. The effects of it however are:

- All the smart players who want to base go to the purepubs where they can be free of harm from levis, which in turn ruins the pubs they are allowed to play in.

- People arent 'graduating' from pub. At least not at a decent rate.

- I dont know if you can even call purepubs basing. Its just a bunch of teamkilling idiot javs and sharks.


The things I personally will always remember about the old pub and why I thought it was effective are:

- Players like YOSHISDAD were lame to levis but also fun to hunt, since he switched to a lanc when you got in a terr to hunt, then ran in safe..that really cant exist too well now cause there are no levis to hunt :P Oh and I remember trying to kill good base levis like nockm from roof

- There was an even distribution of skill among pubs, so new players had an equal chance of meeting skilled opponents as well as people of their level.

- If you thought that there were too many levterrs in an arena, you left it and based somewhere else. Also basing more resembled real basing because when theres only 5 people, if they're all javs youll never hold the fr vs some spids.

Now I honestly dont get the reason why the pub was changed in the first place because obviously it was working. Enough whining kids complained about LTs I guess but there was really nothing to warrant the change, and now that its failing I dont see why its still here. If anyone has input to how the old pub was 'broken' and how PP fixed it please do tell but I dont think theres any evidence to show that, unlike the 'too many javs' thread and the plethora of other purepub whines

[Kolar]

Now I honestly dont get the reason why the pub was changed in the first place because obviously it was working. Enough whining kids complained about LTs I guess but there was really nothing to warrant the change, and now that its failing I dont see why its still here. If anyone has input to how the old pub was 'broken' and how PP fixed it please do tell but I dont think theres any evidence to show that, unlike the 'too many javs' thread and the plethora of other purepub whines

Mainly pure publics were made so the older type of basing could still happen hoping it would promote it enough but still leave a little buffer between the lame crap with levi terriers and hopfully the people who like the new weasel and lanc would stick to the other publics. It has failed and since the uppers at the time wouldn't consider making big changes... Pure publics were created.

The changes made before pure public when everything was mostly fine are a result of trying to update and make the game "better" yet it really took the wrong direction. All changes to the game should promote the orginal game, Basing and nothing more and not excessively as pures are now. Now there's talk of bringing king of the hill games and other crap into the game, clearly whoever took over the development side of things from DoCk> has no fucking clue what they're doing.

There has to be a balance, these ships can be part of basing (in publics at least) but before we can throw in all of this bot junk someone has to take a serious look at this stuff without being biased against one aspect or another.