Why Nerf The X into oblivion?

[Zonk!]

All I enjoy playing is the X. I've played this game since I was a young teenager years ago now. Sure, everyone hates the X...everyone who doesn't know what they are babbling about anyway and just wants an excuse as to why they are terrible at the game...every ship has something it's good at and something it's weak against, as it should be. Just because you are confronted with your particular ship's weakness doesnt make it unfair...as long as your ship has strengths as well.

Every ship should have strengths and weaknesses, every ship should have a role. Without the threat of a small x "weasling" in on your flag, it ruins the challenge of the game. Warbirds (probably the most powerful and popular ship pound for pound) are inherently weak to weasels. Good. That's how it needs to be. Lancasters are inherently weak to nothing but warbirds (and only slightly at that), and yet they have xradar? That's ridiculous in my opinion, especially now that the X has been nerfed yet again. The last few times I played, I saw no X's at all. I'm sure all the brainless idiots in the pub would cheer at this, but it ruins the game. Why even have an X if its got very few if any advantages?

A lancaster can fire nearly 3 times at a fleeing X, only one lil bullet needs to hit it (out of 12), AND the lanc has radar as well. At least the little X could pray to escape through a hole somewhere or behind a rock...now that is hopeless...PLUS it is a much bigger target to be hit by this array of bullets.

A Warbird player complains that he got "X'd"...well, when the X is uncloaked, it is easy pickens for a warbird or any other ship...and the X eventually has to decloak, so, there IS skill involved on both sides of the fight. Now, there is very little skill however...such a big target is hard to miss cloaked or uncloaked. Cloaking to escape is worthless now, as the first retaliation shot will probably be right on the money.

As it was, everyone hated the little X. Good. That's how I like it. Half the ships can detect the X, and it is a team game after all (your teammates are warning you if there is an X present), everyone immediately hunts and kills an X whereever spotted, the X cannot stay permanently cloaked, the X is slower than most ships, the X can fire less often than most ships, the X fires slower than most ships, so WHY NERF IT ANY MORE?

By removing it's small stature, you have made the X pointless to play-- if it is to stay like that, I say, remove it entirely or reevaluate its other functions. Just because people whine about getting killed by it doesn't mean it was in need of nerfing...whiners will whine about anything and everything that kills them...from levi bombs being too powerful, to hacking, to lag, to whatever else.

Bring backthe little X, or bring us a new one!

[Kolar]

The weasel will have to be its orginal size in future updates. Flagging is complete shit and pointless with it. The map and settings in all publics right now is from Boki and will not be there permanently.

It isn't so much that people hate the current ship configs or the idea of having a cloaker, they hate playing publics and that's bad for this zone.

[PH]

Better question

y whine if -2ez- n00b

[Zonk!]

The weasel will have to be its orginal size in future updates. Flagging is complete shit and pointless with it. The map and settings in all publics right now is from Boki and will not be there permanently.

It isn't so much that people hate the current ship configs or the idea of having a cloaker, they hate playing publics and that's bad for this zone.

Many people hate snipers in FPS games. They cry and cry and cry when sniped from 400 yards away...do you see these games banning snipers? No. That is an inherent part of the game, and snipers have weaknesses that can be easily exploited as well.

Just because people whine doesnt mean it's not balanced.

Though it isn't a design feature, the X is so hated and misjudged, that many players do nothing but hunt them, many more will stop whatever they are doing to kill one, and half the ships can see them...despite what whiners might say, X's have no advantage over them in the larger sense of things. An X might take a pot shot at you, and usually will have to spend a good amount of time running from that point on from the rest of your team!

Players are quick to whine but not quick to realize that diversity in a game makes for a more interesting challenge. If everyone had to fly warbirds, there'd be no whining, but there'd be almost no point in playing.

Long live the X, its by far...by FAR the most interesting ship to play.

[Kolar]

This isn't a first person shooter and I am not saying that the element of stealthiness are not a part of this game or could be. I'm not going to argue such subjective things like ship settings with anyone, much less a person who is not willing to look at the weasel and the entire game objectively.

The size of the weasel is not working for flagging/basing in publics. There might be some work around for it like using 'no fly over' tiles.

[Ignominy]

– all x shall lose there names when being x and only be known to other x as simply x

Bring backthe little X, or bring us a new one!

Fixed.

[Edify]

It was fine when I started playing and the x was regular sized.

You've just been spoiled by the 1-tile-sized one.

[Denon]

Big weasel was always better than small weasel.

[winipcfg]

Big weasel was always better than small weasel.

:up:

[a21ozcoldcup]

The small x is hands down a more balanced ship than any previous x

Some very good points. I'm completely at a loss for words with all these people who really think the old x was better than the new one. Especially when it was so much fun to play without cloaking. The old one was ten times the lamer ship, so easy for noobs to abuse when they got pissed at someone, so easy to stalk or hunt people without worry about energy running out. The new x is truly a well balanced ship and I can't believe people are really upset at a ship that only by the grace of God can sneak into base cloaked and still have energy to shoot at someone. It's really a very very very difficult balance to maintain, the energy drain of cloak. And with the number of ships with x radar now? rediculous. Lancaster? Yeah man, you're absoloutely right, that ship is way overpowered, most people agree it's a lame ship but noone fights for it to change. LeviTerrs are ten times more annoying than either of the two previously mentioned ships yet I don't see nearly the call to arms regarding them. My experience in public has been spoiled by LTs more than any other ship and say what you want about me changing arenas to avoid it, that just means there is ten other arenas ruined for the one good one. I'm truly sad to see people wishing for the small x to go and in the weasel's defense, below is something I posted elsewhere in the forums to defend it.

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I just want you to read this.. absorb it.. and not flame me for liking x!

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Okay, so I've played most versions of weasel.. so far as I can remember at least ('99 to now).

Honest to God I PREFER the weasel as it is now.

I think all of you dislike the X for minor reasons, forgetting how powerful it used to be.

Before it was a remarkable cloaker. Unlimited cloak? That is plenty powerful. Yes, on nights where upper is guarded fiercely, an older X would have be more careful about sneaking in, but it could (if noone is following X radar). Campers, bombers and related annoying crew-all were easy targets for the old X who need only worry about X radar and nothing else. I also remember the day when people hated X more than any other ships and LTs. There was a reason for that.

Enter the small weasel... it's cloaking powers are weak but balanced now, it can play a more offensive (versus supportive or annoying) role and takes more skill to pilot now.

Here's my view of the breakdown between old and new, explaining why it should stay how it is NOW:

Current Cloaking Powers: Assuming most people play at 1024x768, a weasel doesn't have much room to work with between cloaking and sneaking up on an enemy. Try it some time. You'll find out that by the time you reach your target you are scraping for enough energy to kill them and afterwards you might as well forget about turboing away or cloaking to escape because the energy drain will finish you off twice as quick as enemy bullets could. Here the weasel is weaker than before AND it's worth noting that because of this, many pilots have stopped using cloaked X and developed a more combative role style for weasel.

Size : I will grant all of you naysayers that this size reduction is truly an advantage, but also a curse. It makes it easier to evade enemy bullets (if you are a God among pilots that is)..so I give you an advantage there (but it does take some intense hand eye skills to use it's size right). Now correct me if I'm wrong, they also made it weaker to bombs and the like. I am now admitting that I never used X when it was large and infinitely cloakable because a.) it's too cheesy, b.)i don't enjoy killing people when cloaked unless for a very strategic purpose in basing. I can't tell you if I'm correct in assuming it now dies easier to bombs, but I know that right now it is just very very very susceptible to bomb damage. So here the Old Weasel and New Weasel are even

N00bs, Lamers and the Like : Yes you can call people who use X noobs if you want, but they are far from it. The current style of X requires a lot of skill to control succesfully. Before it was really easy to simply get in a weasel, cloak and drift around poking at people with that infinite cloak. Now you have to plan your attack ahead of time and hope you have the neccessary skills afterwards to avoid dying to anyone nearby. So here the New Weasel is less likely to be used by n00bs.

Final Comments: PLEASE READ THIS PART, and understand it. More than anything else I say here, I have discovered that there is a growing community online of Weasel pilots who simply do not use cloaking at all. I myself am one of them. Before, the Weasel had no choice but to be used as a cloaking ship (oh yeah, I forgot, it could repel, wow. whatever. get a shark) so anyways, cloaking was rarely used in strategic, non annoying ways when it had infinite cloak, you can't deny that. But now the shark is being discovered to be more fun to pilot simply as a small, offensive ship for basing. After discovering the pleasures that basing with an uncloaked Weasel brings me, I also found some friends that do the same thing. We never cloak, we tell people we never cloak and if we do cloak on rare occasions it's only to hide from people who hunt us simply because we are an uncloaked X trying to fly into base (I never kill in those cases.. just try to fly away from them... then uncloak again).

I've started several discussions online with both fellow uncloaking X pilots, the few experienced cloaking X pilots and the general pub community. The consensus is that an uncloaked X is a fascinating and exciting way to play the Weasel. If you want to cloak and steal the flag or kill a camper, you still can if you aren't stupid. If you want to play outright basing, no sneaking around or cloaking, you can. People don't really mind an uncloaked Weasel and only occasionally do I find people hate me but it's only because in the past, infinite cloaking X's have given them a bitter view of the ship and they refuse to believe I won't suddenly grow bored with basing and hunt them as a cloaked X for the rest of the night.

Please read this and understand me when I say that the small Weasel has more to offer than the earlier versions of X. It has a little bit of something for everyone and I feel is the best balance between stealth and being a positive contribution to the pub and basing community in Trench Wars.

Believe me, if I felt it was a terrible ship and unbalanced, I'd kick and scream for it to go, but it's not a bad ship and aside from a few ignorant pilots, shouldn't cause that many problems these days.

On a seperate topic, I think the Jav DOES need full X radar again. I love the Jav as well (wonderfully versatile ship in and out of base). But dear god, I hate sitting there turning x radar on and off every tenth of a second trying to follow a Weasel AND still have enough energy to bomb. I liked the suggestion of decreasing energy to a flat level just below being able to bomb, so if we like, we can turn it off and let loose a half second later.
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All I enjoy playing is the X. I've played this game since I was a young teenager years ago now. Sure, everyone hates the X...everyone who doesn't know what they are babbling about anyway and just wants an excuse as to why they are terrible at the game...every ship has something it's good at and something it's weak against, as it should be. Just because you are confronted with your particular ship's weakness doesnt make it unfair...as long as your ship has strengths as well.

Every ship should have strengths and weaknesses, every ship should have a role. Without the threat of a small x "weasling" in on your flag, it ruins the challenge of the game. Warbirds (probably the most powerful and popular ship pound for pound) are inherently weak to weasels. Good. That's how it needs to be. Lancasters are inherently weak to nothing but warbirds (and only slightly at that), and yet they have xradar? That's ridiculous in my opinion, especially now that the X has been nerfed yet again. The last few times I played, I saw no X's at all. I'm sure all the brainless idiots in the pub would cheer at this, but it ruins the game. Why even have an X if its got very few if any advantages?

A lancaster can fire nearly 3 times at a fleeing X, only one lil bullet needs to hit it (out of 12), AND the lanc has radar as well. At least the little X could pray to escape through a hole somewhere or behind a rock...now that is hopeless...PLUS it is a much bigger target to be hit by this array of bullets.

A Warbird player complains that he got "X'd"...well, when the X is uncloaked, it is easy pickens for a warbird or any other ship...and the X eventually has to decloak, so, there IS skill involved on both sides of the fight. Now, there is very little skill however...such a big target is hard to miss cloaked or uncloaked. Cloaking to escape is worthless now, as the first retaliation shot will probably be right on the money.

As it was, everyone hated the little X. Good. That's how I like it. Half the ships can detect the X, and it is a team game after all (your teammates are warning you if there is an X present), everyone immediately hunts and kills an X whereever spotted, the X cannot stay permanently cloaked, the X is slower than most ships, the X can fire less often than most ships, the X fires slower than most ships, so WHY NERF IT ANY MORE?

By removing it's small stature, you have made the X pointless to play-- if it is to stay like that, I say, remove it entirely or reevaluate its other functions. Just because people whine about getting killed by it doesn't mean it was in need of nerfing...whiners will whine about anything and everything that kills them...from levi bombs being too powerful, to hacking, to lag, to whatever else.

Bring backthe little X, or bring us a new one!

[duel pasta]

it's time we start to listen to THE PUB PEOPLE, because the rest of you guys don't even play pub, or maybe play it like 2 hours a day or even a week, I don't say i play pub cuz i don't anymore, but I too have played with the big x and the small x and I must say the small X is alot better and balanced, just read zonk's and a21ozcoldcup posts... i'm sure these two are the real pubbers, not going to events, not going to ?go base but stay in pub all day cuz they like the new X.. why don't place a poll in public about the X, and you can only vote when you played over 5 hours in pub, so you don't get the no-pubber going in and vote big x, just becuz they don't like it.

[Fluffz]

The size of the weasel is not working for flagging/basing in publics. There might be some work around for it like using 'no fly over' tiles.

it is working better than the old one, basing wise (which it never was designed for, there are other ships that are ffs). you can sneak into base because it has a lot of holes and take flag. however the old one was more fun, you could argue it was unbalanced. granted, cloaking and stealthing at the same time without energy drain was unfair. but this recent one, temporary or not, is the worst shit ever.

but while a good player in x could not and can not carry a team, a good player in any other ship can. so my question remains the same over years, why the hell do you change the cloaker the most unimportant thing ever - and change it to the worse because it still is no basing ship (and shouldnt be) - when it is the the levi and the tk policy that needs to be changed?!i can not take any of these improvement ideas serious anymore. if you only listen to what the mass of TW wants you only make this zone worse.

- maybe 15 spiders in pub are unfunny shit and no1 want to play that, no matter how much this would increase basing/flagging quality?
- why the hell was the levi banned from pure pub while it still ruins the others? make it harder to play! 50 attach bounty is not that fucking much, and it would be a much better solution than the current levi "solution".
- why the hell do we not have a TK prevention jet? have you guys in charge ever been in pub in the last couple of years?

to increase basing quality? well those who ?go base still do and everything other than pure is worse than ever. pure pub is great, no question, but that would be a good situation for a 60 ppl zone. which isnt that far away

[Liquid Blue]

I recently started playing pub again and the X'es aren't even annoying. I was fine when they were big and was fine when they were small because there is generally only a small population playing X- not more than 4 or 5 people in a pub at a time.

Kolar's right, the pub game does get boring after awhile. Some drastic changes need to be done in order to improve the activity of the zone, and this doesn't just mean working on the X, but looking at all the ships, the base itself, and tweaking around with different ideas.

"Fuck the jav guys, seriously it sucks"
"No fuck the lanc, that's such a lamer's ship"
"Fuck Spiders, they are cheap as shit"

It's not just one ship that needs to be worked on, it's the pub game on a whole. Instead of whining about this ship or trying to defend that ship, people in this zone need to throw out ideas that work on trying new things with the game as a whole.

[Liquid Blue]

Note to Fluffz- having bolded words sprinkled like that througout your post just make them become an eyesore in the long run and your post that much less legible. Try to center those bolder parts together to make a much more coherent and effective post.

[Fluffz]

Note to Fluffz- having bolded words sprinkled like that througout your post just make them become an eyesore in the long run and your post that much less legible. Try to center those bolder parts together to make a much more coherent and effective post.

not every ship is a basing ship, not everyone wants to play a basing ship all the time. flagging is not the answer, fun is. the old cloaker had this. maybe the new is fun too, i just dont feel it.

change the levi to increase the pub quality. make it very hard to play but do not change the devastation it can cause and therefore the joy it can give you (while it does not destroy the joy of others). if 20 attach bounts is not enough because we learned over time how to get those 20 very easy and quick increase it to 40. disable private freq leviterrs, however you do that. ooh, this suggestions are so new....

do something about the TK problem. It is even in the rules.

do not listen to what the majority wants, because it is not said it will improve this zone.