TWCore Discussion

[Richard Creager]

sage

[Ikrit]

Java was chosen for its platform independence, show me another language that will work the same on all systems and I'll consider it.

[Richard Creager]

sage

[Ikrit]

Assuming that's supposed to be something about the core running in Java... just because the game can't be played on a certain computer doesn't mean we can't run a bot core on that computer.

[Richard Creager]

sage

[Maverick]

ahahahha
How the hell is this bot core going to connect to the server then?

You really don't know what you are talking about huh?

Java is one of the leading programming languages and is currently being used throughout the world in most of the biggest companies. Why? Mainly because of its stability and platform independent features.
Major server software has been created with Java (naming one, IBM Websphere) and is running most, if not all, of the Enterprise websites (websites that have more then 100.000 simultaneous connections).

In reply to your stupid answer at the top of this post;
The bots of TW aren't hosted at the same machine as people run Continuum. They are hosted on seperate (Linux) servers that provide the stability a windows machine can't even get close to.
Because TWCore is Java it's fit to be run on Linux machines. Running mervbot on Linux machine is remotely possible but very hard to do.

Back on topic;
If you want to join TWDev don't hesitate to PM Ikrit with your application. :turned:

[Miku19]

C/C++ is completely incompatible with Linux...

What the hell, why do you need the bots to be easily portable to other platforms, since you're gonna run them on only one anyways.

I'm with monsieur Creager on this one.

[Maverick]

What the hell, why do you need the bots to be easily portable to other platforms, since you're gonna run them on only one anyways.

In what programming language would you program a bot then that has to run on a Linux platform?


Moderator, maybe this topic can be split. This is going offtopic.

[Richard Creager]

How the fuck is the bot on linux and running the client and logging its name into the game server and subsequently logging into its sysop?

And please don't ever copy paste the Sun "Enterprise"(TM) bullshit anywhere near me again lest I fucking kill you with a shelf full of blades and you won't give a fuck what operating system they're running but I guaran-fucking-tee that even without JAAAAVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA they'll be enterprising your bone structure in to new and exciting configurations with more than 100.000 unique new connections.

By the way, I hope you realize all this extra stability you'd be gaining for using linux really doesn't help if the language your using is about as stable as my ass hair.

But do you know what is most important here and what I first posted here about? No because you're got sun enterprising fanatacism branded onto your skull but I'll tell you, it's about having more people willing to use the core of the bots, this isn't going to happen using Javer.

[RoDNeY]

java is coffee

[Sarien]

The answer is simple:

Java is easier for teenagers to learn, when they get suckered into a thankless job full of wild eyed optimism. Might as well give up where you stand, Creags.

Portability only becomes an issue in C if you don't have access to the source or a shortage of people that understand it.

[Ikrit]

Creeger, the whole theory behind a bot core is you write a program that will connect to the server like a client. The reason Continuum/subgame.exe don't work on linux is they're programmed in C++(or C.. can't remember which, think it's ++).. so, if we have all the packets and everything right, the bot logs in whether the core is running on a linux box (Java core) or a windows box (Java or C/C++ core). It just makes more sense to use Java where you can develop and test on a windows environment then put on a linux server to run since it is more stable and a lot cheaper than a windows server.

As far as Java's stability is concerned, it's just as stable as C and C++, I don't see how you can justify (well... you haven't) your claims that it is unstable. I've written many programs and the only time my programs have any problems is when it is my fault and when my programs crash in Java at least they don't take the whole computer down with it.

[Doc Flabby]

I'm not the biggest fan of java.

However in the context of tw dev it makes sence to use it.
The majority of computing courses now start with teaching java.
Alot of people who play TW will be learning java at skool or college/uni.

Java is a much easier language than c/c++ to learn. Any newb can learn it even me :fear:

It requires zero knowledge of how the computer actually works as java code should perform the same whatever computer & OS its run on.

Bots dont need the high performance of c/c++.

The .net question. .net and java are competing products of the same thing (both use virtual machines to run compiled bytecode that is platform independent). Java is a better choice than .net as it has been around for longer and has been optimied much better. java is significantly faster and less memory eating than .net.

swaping to and from .net and java isnt very hard. c# and java are about 90% compatible. I think there is even a program that will convert between the two. If you know c# you can learn java quickly and visa versa.

How the fuck is the bot on linux and running the client and logging its name into the game server and subsequently logging into its sysop?

The bots connect directly to the server. They dont need the client. I recommend you read up on how these things work if you are interested theres plenty of info and links here http://www.shanky.com/server/ and here http://wiki.minegoboom.com

As a side note. Continuum can be run under linux using wine. I think subgame can be run on linux under wine also - i havnt tried it though...hopefully asss will get good enough to replace subgame at somepoint...linux servers are normally half the price of windows ones....why?...windows server licences are expensive...Linux is free. Keeping the cost down makes sence for a free game.

[Maverick]

And please don't ever copy paste the Sun "Enterprise"(TM) bullshit anywhere near me again [..pointless ranting..]

By the way, I hope you realize all this extra stability you'd be gaining for using linux really doesn't help if the language your using is about as stable as my ass hair.

[..more pointless ranting..]

You don't understand anything about programming, Java, bots or servers at all. It will be a waste of time even thinking about replying to your post.

[Richard Creager]

so, if we have all the packets and everything right

Because no one knows the protocols in any other language for linux except in Java amirite?

I don't see how you can justify (well... you haven't) your claims that it is unstable.

The bots. Sure it may be an issue of the core's code itself, however, having to maintain that in nurupo land isn't helping the matter.

Java is a much easier language than c/c++ to learn. Any newb can learn it even me

Because its more important to get novice programmers who haven't found out your life will be overall better if you don't even look at Java anymore yet than experienced coders.

It requires zero knowledge of how the computer actually works.

See the above sarcasm.

Bots dont need the high performance of c/c++.

Sure! If you were actually using the client to have all the commands run through, however you're dealing with that plus making sure there's correct packet handling across HOW MANY INSTANCES OF BOTS? In real time.

As a side note. Continuum can be run under linux using wine. I think subgame can be run on linux under wine also - i havnt tried it though...hopefully asss will get good enough to replace subgame at somepoint...linux servers are normally half the price of windows ones....why?...windows server licences are expensive...Linux is free. Keeping the cost down makes sence for a free game.

Using this to handle the packets instead of Java doing it is the only way I could see using Java in the first place making any sort of sense let alone improving the often easily fucked and famed "stability" of the bots, if it only has to handle reading the packets for the information and inputing the commands it would be much easier on a hardly able language, however there still remains the matter of the fact not many if any in their right mind is ever going to want to touch it, again, the main matter here is a wider range of coding support.