Swastika

[Mayo Inc.]

Bob is on my squad. I talk to him. He's a pretty fucked up guy but I'm 99.99999% sure he's NOT a Nazi. People have pm'd me saying "get your squaddie to change his banner", I have no control over this nor do I believe his banner should be changed. I regret not checking this thread earlier, I may have checked it earlier I can't remember. There is a quite deal of irony here with all of you acusing people, Bob in particular, of being prejudice (and racist but thats besides the point) when the majority of you have never carried out a conversation with him nor do you know him at all. Personally I wouldn't wear a swastika as my banner because I know there are some people who do not know the history of this symbol, and that there will be people offended by it no matter what.

If whatever point I have made has been disproven by a post on this thread I'll edit it accordingly.

[Oen Izan]

Never ending story

I think that the Twisted Cross in all its meanings should not be removed from a banner. Though I do believe the one Twisted Cross that is on a background of RED, with a WHITE circle and a BLACK swastica should be. If you're not a racist , you're not german and none of your relatives were in the Hitler ran military then you should not be wearing it. But with that said, 90% of the people that play this game are kids. Kids are out to push the boundries of society. So instead of making a big issue over it, just let it go. This topic shows good points from both sides but since each side will never agree on who is the right one this will never end. Instead of fighting to conform someone to what you think is right, lets work on giving respect and giving back respect.


http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/15/151.html

[Acidmouse]

.

u shud bann oen's mullet..

[General Malaise]

Originally posted by Taciturn Bob
Wel I believe them to be ironic in the fact they call me racist and predjudice and so forth... Well by saying these things to me are they not also being predjudice?
The people are mad at me due to the fact that I have a banner, is that any different than skin color?

Oh and Malaise I am well aware of what I say in my statments, don't attack my intelligence. (btw nice catch on my spelling error thnx)

But I like attacking people's intelligence...

Anyway, Face kind of mentioned this, but about prejudice, and the irony of people getting pissed off at your banner, no, I don't think it shows prejudice to get pissed at a banner that, let's face it, is pretty universally offensive, because when someone gets pissed at your banner, they're getting pissed at YOU for choosing to wear something so edgy, something that inevitably brings to mind the Holocaust. It's not wrong for me to say you're an ass for wearing that banner, if I think that wearing that banner makes you an ass. I'm not making any judgments about Nazis or the appropriateness of showing something from our universal history and I'm not saying you're necessarily a racist just because you wear a banner that's a huge symbol of racism and hate, but I an saying that you're an attention-craving jagoff, and you've picked a stupid and offensive way to get people to notice you. I'm reasonably certain that I'm right about this.

[General Malaise]

Originally posted by Ennui
As for Bob...

I think that your banner should be kept. Now, I know that pisses a lot of people off, but the Swastika is as much a staple of our history as the Christian cross itself. No one complains when some god loving, holier than thou Christian uses a cross as his/her banner. However, I feel that the cross is much more offensive, and has much more connotation of prejudice than the Swastika. After all, the cross is what the nazi's stood behind, or at least pretended to, just as much, if not more than the Swastika. The cross was also used as a symbol of prejudice during the Crusades, where hundreds and thousands of lives were lost, for what I believe to be no reason at all. let us remember that more people have killed, and been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason, even racism during the 30's and 40's. However, I do not condone racism in any manner, and I feel strongly that anyone who supports racism is a coward and should suffer the wrath of the masses, but the Swastika is a legitimate symbol of our history. I do think that you are a jerk for not adhering to what the vast majority of people want you to do, but at the same time I respect your courage. You really should just respect other's wishes and change your banner though. I think it would be in your best interest to do so. But if you don't want to, I don't think you should be in anyway penalized for your actions. I just think you should have an ounce of respect for others wishes and just change your banner. It isn't even that big of a deal.
-Ennui

I've read this several times, and I have no idea what the hell you're trying to say, Ennui. About the cross, though...the difference between the cross and the swastica is that the horrors associated with christianity (the Crusades, all the intolerance and violence) are perversions of the message that the symbol stands for. The people who went on crusades and killed "heathens" and the people who use Christianity as an excuse to close their minds to anyone who holds a different opinion were and are bad Christians. The symbol and group itself has a checkered past, but pretty much every single organization in the history of the world has a similar mix of valor and shame. By your logic, the American flag is inherently a symbol of the civil rights struggle, or of genocide against native americans. Those things happened, it's true, but they're not what the organization stands for. The swastica, on the other hand, is the symbol of an organization whose stated goal was extermination of all other peoples. The soldiers who killed unconverted "heathens" in the crusades were being bad Christians, but the soldiers who sent Jews to the ovens at Dachau were being good Nazis. That's the difference between those two symbols.

[Ennui]

YEAH!!!!

Thank you General Malaise, you are the only one who has questioned my rant about the cross. It was complete bullshit, that whole argument, and I thank you for seeing that. You win.
-Ennui

[Reclusion]

Expanding (or merely restating) what the General said, you can't judge a group based on the fanatics. We can't go say all Muslims are bad because our buddy Osama is Muslim.

[Warfare]

Originally posted by General Malaise

The swastica, on the other hand, is the symbol of an organization whose stated goal was extermination of all other peoples. The soldiers who killed unconverted "heathens" in the crusades were being bad Christians, but the soldiers who sent Jews to the ovens at Dachau were being good Nazis. That's the difference between those two symbols.

Well, that's where you're wrong.
It has been concluded several times during the lifetime of this thread that, originally, the swastika was used for the sun god (?) or something of the like, and not a symbol of nazism at all. Basically, the cross and the swastika are both as bad (or good), so if you're gonna ban the swastika, ban the cross as well.

Furthermore, not all soldiers took pride or pleasure in doing what they did to the jews. Some had scars for life. You do realize that alot of them were FORCED to do it, right? The, er, Gestapo, was it?, kept a close eye on them, just like the Russian special police unit, whatever they were called, who marched behind the Red Army and shot every soldier that tried to desert from a battle.

[General Malaise]

AGH, it's just not getting through to some of you...how else to say this...ok, two things. First, it doesn't matter whether the soldiers who killed jews wanted to or not, in fact it means even more if they didn't want to but had to because they were NAZIS. It was the group's aim to exterminate other races, and what you said just proves my point about the group. They didn't want to, but because of their affiliation with the group, because they wore the swastica, they were FORCED to. Second, I don't give a shit what the symbol started out as, it has become a symbol of Nazis. Splitting hairs about the tilt, or the color, or other details is entirely pointless, because swastica means nazi in the modern world, and if you disagree, you've been living under a rock for your whole life. If you were living in the USA in the 1910s, you might have a point, and you could use your "twisted cross" or whatever the hell you want to call it to mean peace, or the sun god, but after WW II, the thing with 4 connected right-angles is called a swastica, and it means Nazi. The male symbol that Austin Powers wears on a chain around his neck used to mean Mars, too, but now it means male, hence the joke. It's entirely pointless to argue what things used to mean, it matters what they mean now.

[Mayo Inc.]

Bob is my friend. I like to talk to Bob. He is a weird guy.

[Mattey]

Re: morons

Originally posted by space cowboy

kindergarten tactics don't work in the real world you dillywacker.

Does anyone else find this statement EXTREMELY funny.

[Mattey]

Originally posted by General Malaise


But I like attacking people's intelligence...

Anyway, Face kind of mentioned this, but about prejudice, and the irony of people getting pissed off at your banner, no, I don't think it shows prejudice to get pissed at a banner that, let's face it, is pretty universally offensive, because when someone gets pissed at your banner, they're getting pissed at YOU for choosing to wear something so edgy, something that inevitably brings to mind the Holocaust.

This is a run-on sentence. (everyone look at how smart I am for pointing out a minor mistake) I hate people like you.

[Acidmouse]

[Facetious]

Originally posted by Mattey


This is a run-on sentence. (everyone look at how smart I am for pointing out a minor mistake) I hate people like you.

Are you mocking me?

[Mattey]

No... of course not.