On the issue of lag: The real story

[x.X.x]

So that explain why sometimes point blank L3 bullets doesn't kill

Sorry if I sound like a newbie but, wait I am a newbie!

[2dragons]

Originally posted by Pearl Jam
I think you need to read this, 2dragons. Over and over.

You fit perfectly into my stereotype:

Most people don't lag and this fits nicely for what they'd like to believe so they don't even care to know about the otherside.

Pearl Jam I do not respect your opinion therefore I won't even consider a word you say. Not once have you shown any attitude of compromise or understanding. Every word you type directly reflects your personal whims towards this game.

To Azhran - you take the 'article' way to literally. That article was meant to provide some understanding that lag isn't only reflected on those that play against a lagger. As an article I did put numbers abnormally large for the purpose of making more of an impact on the readers. I can personally say that at on any connection I've EVER played on which ranges from 26.4k dialup to 800k wireless to T3 has anyone in general not died from the majority of all hits. It is not often duds occur regardless of lag.

Zloy also fits my steretype by succesfully typing all the advantages a lagger has without 1 mention of anything that may be a disadvantage to a lagger. Ignorance is bliss. My favorite saying now of days.

And epi I don't think your last post reflects anything which actually proves lag is beneficial. Not only that but the situation and the psychological effects are a hoax. That isn't what occurs. ESPECIALLY in wb/jav leagues, it isn't really even a factor.

To concrete - I've become a Paul Bunyan - everytime someone mentions how many times I lagged out the number increases. Also any past games are forgotten about. I counted - I lagged out 17 times after checking logs. That is only once every minute and 25 seconds. But this game was unusually laggy due to 60+ spectators. The last base game I played preceding that I did not lag out once and also there weren't 60+ spectating. I played 2 private games last night and didn't lagout once either. This argument is irrelevent and I'm tired of people bringing it up. That is why we have unlimited lagouts. People spike.

[Pearl Jam]

Originally posted by 2dragons


Pearl Jam I do not respect your opinion therefore I won't even consider a word you say. Not once have you shown any attitude of compromise or understanding.

You don't respect my opinion? What I said AND what Epi said are not "opinions". They're facts.

You want to play in pub and in any other base match with your javelin of infinite doom? Fine! Go for it! But you know for a fact that if you jav in league games you're forever going to be surrounded in controversy, in addition to ruining the fun experiance for many others playing against you.

[2dragons]

I could care less

And that is exactly why I said what I said. You don't care that your beliefs or based soley on what you want and that regardless of how others may view it you deam yourself always correct in what you say.

Your level of maturity expressed doesn't warrant anyone's time in reading. When you wish to cede you may sometimes be wrong and are actually able to view not only your side I'd be happy to make amends and come to terms with you. Till then have fun in SS.

_____________ Edited addition __________________

Sux I posted this and now your post is totally different in text. You may see them as facts but my connection alone proves them to not be facts. Sometimes they may be facts but I have the negatition to those statements.

But you know for a fact that if you jav in league games you're forever going to be surrounded in controversy, in addition to ruining the fun experiance for many others playing against you.

Yes surrounded my controversy in TWLB. Ruining the fun experience for many others playing againt me? To a small extent (it shouldn't ruin anyone's experience, call it flavor if that works for ya), once again your biased opinion reflects on everyone but myself and the other laggers in TW or SS. This happens everywhere. Each time someone uses a negative word in pub/elim it occurs. Maybe by all this, people will understand lag better.

[Azhran]

Originally posted by 2dragons


To Azhran - you take the 'article' way to literally. That article was meant to provide some understanding that lag isn't only reflected on those that play against a lagger. As an article I did put numbers abnormally large for the purpose of making more of an impact on the readers. I can personally say that at on any connection I've EVER played on which ranges from 26.4k dialup to 800k wireless to T3 has anyone in general not died from the majority of all hits. It is not often duds occur regardless of lag.

I just wanted to show that 95% of all numbers are just made up

[PaulOakenfold]

are u serious about it's hard to get under 200 or whatever in USA? With my 56k i had 200.. and with cable i get like 100 easily.... maybe it's just me...

[Ruby]

I think you people need to get the fuck off 2dragons and consider my post resolutions:

LET'S GET A SERVER IN AMERICA ALREADY THAT WOULD WORK IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE FINNY SERVER

If we got a USA/North America server, it would cover the lag issues for all of the player who play in: Mexico, USA, Alaska (part of usa but far away), and Canada. Then you would all finally see how much I really don't lag, because I have a fucking personal T1 line at home. Yet I still get average 200 ms.. sigh

We seriously need to get together and discuss this topic, SS is getting bigger and bigger everyday, there's got to be some company that would sponsor it. I would be all over this, as I'm a professional web/designer and I've been using computers since the first 386. If the staff would ever consider this (It really would be the best thing Trench Wars will have ever done, and many would rejoice) You would see Trench Wars as alot more fun, and alot less laggy. Then finally those with regular dial-up modems can play at decent pings in america (200 ms) and those with cable/dsl/T1's (me) can have a great 30ms

[Ruby]

Originally posted by PaulOakenfold
are u serious about it's hard to get under 200 or whatever in USA? With my 56k i had 200.. and with cable i get like 100 easily.... maybe it's just me...

You probably live on the East Coast.

[Pearl Jam]

Yeah, I edited my first post. Everyone has a temper that can flare up sometimes. I didn't intend for it to be so harsh.

I'm going to completely ignore the "level of maturity" flames. They are completely irrelevant to the topic. Have I flamed you once? No, I haven't. If you want to degrade this into flames though, I suppose we can do that. I have plenty of funny pictures.

I've seen your kind plenty of times on all kinds of forums/debates. You come in here, flashing your big vocabulary (takes you longer to post thinking of those big words - trust me, I know) trying to hide under the guise of the educated nice guy when all you're doing is posting masqued flames.

Furthermore, I know I don't speak for myself when I address this issue. I know there are plenty of others that would back me up here.

Oh yeah...cede that I'm wrong? How am I wrong? I'll be glad to take a poll asking if people have fun playing when you're playing hop skotch in league games. I know that the majority will state that it isn't fun for them to have to alter their playing style. Right now, there is no black and white "right or wrong". We're both floating in the gray area, surrounded by impending flames.

I'm not asking you to quit the game, 2dragons. I'm not asking you to ban yourself. I'm asking you to be reasonable. Obviously we probably aren't going to meet again in a league game - this isn't about anything that would help me or my squad, our loss is already over and done with. Your lag is ridiculous in those base matches, man. You know it is. Everyone else knows it is. It isn't anything new. It has the potential to wreak havoc in game, and rile up a lot of people.(as I stated before, it surrounds you in controversy). If some kind of rule can be engineered to at least curb this problem if/when it gets out of hand in matches (like a max number of lagouts, etc.) I'd have no problem with you playing in those TWLB matches. But as it stands there is nothing to stop it.

I'm all for finding solutions. Are you?

[Louis XV]

There are different kinds of lag. You have steadily high pings, "spikey pings" that fluctuate a lot, and packetloss. Ploss really isn't a factor in-game because the restrictions on it are tight - it usually affects chat/command responsiveness.

Then you have intentional lag caused by people using external programs for their own benefit *sneezefart*cheating*coughhiccup*. From what I've seen, this is more prominent than you might think. I'm not going to name any names, but it's a serious problem that needs to be addressed by the higher-ups in TW. It probably doesn't affect other zones all that much, but when you start fucking with your lag in TW it fucks the game up for everyone... and people can get away with it very very easily.

[Jason]

AHAHAHAHA!!! 2d, shush. You, of all people, have no credability in this subject area. Twenty two lagouts in a single TWLB match? Rocketing up into base time and time again ignoring every single bullet/bomb/burst in your path? I honestly hope you don't expect anyone to take you seriously because it's blatantly obvious you are feebly attempting to defend your rather questionable position.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by 2dragons
To concrete - I've become a Paul Bunyan - everytime someone mentions how many times I lagged out the number increases. Also any past games are forgotten about. I counted - I lagged out 17 times after checking logs. That is only once every minute and 25 seconds. But this game was unusually laggy due to 60+ spectators. The last base game I played preceding that I did not lag out once and also there weren't 60+ spectating. I played 2 private games last night and didn't lagout once either. This argument is irrelevent and I'm tired of people bringing it up. That is why we have unlimited lagouts. People spike.

I guess that makes Ruby your retarded blue ox. Comon, seriously. Okay, let's give you the benefit of the doubt (I'm a sporting guy, sure, why not?). You're basically saying you had such problems because there were 60+ people spectating.

On a typical client-server interaction, your movements would be sent from your client to the server, which would store your movements/activities. Your client would then request information about the happenings in the arena (as wide as your radar). Now, meanwhile, the 60+ people spectating, as well as your teammates and the other team, request the same information. A fair amount of bandwidth is used. So yes, spectators increase the arena-wide lag. That's the key here, it's ARENA WIDE.

But wait Conc, if arena-wide lag causes so much havoc, why doesn't everyone lag out? This is exactly my point. I didn't lag out once during the game, and I'm just playing on a vanilla DSL line, nothing special. In fact, I've NEVER lagged out of a base match... not ONCE.

People spike, yes. But 17 times is even pushing it. Most base games that I've hosted (which during peak times can bring 50+ people to the arena) are a good example. TWLB teams are 8 on 8, correct? So, MAXIMUM, you have 16 people in base. In public advertised base matches, it's not out of the ordinary to have 16 v 16 games. 32 people on your screen at any one time, maximum. Even in these, I maybe have individual people lagging out maybe 5 or 6 times a game.

Also, spectators are a part of leagues--don't try to blame your connection woes on people that are just interested in watching the game.

I know this has to be annoying to you, 2D, and I'm really tying to keep this discussion respectful, but some of your reasons are really quite outlandish.

The fact remains, would YOU like to play against someone with ridiculous lag? If we let it slide, the problem just gets worse and worse. I'd rather this game not devolve into something that's based purely on who has better lag.

[brookus]

Originally posted by Ruby
LET'S GET A SERVER IN AMERICA ALREADY THAT WOULD WORK IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE FINNY SERVER

And are you going to buy this server, pay for the storage and maintenance, and pay for the bandwidth that it will use?

If you have the money and are willing to do all that, I suggest you contact Prit and tell him that you would like to make a donation.

The simplest solution is what I jokingly mentioned in an old thread : create false lag for everyone. If everyone "lags" the same amount, then no one can complain. Simple, if not fun.

llater,
Tony

[Ruby]

Originally posted by brookus

And are you going to buy this server, pay for the storage and maintenance, and pay for the bandwidth that it will use?

If you have the money and are willing to do all that, I suggest you contact Prit and tell him that you would like to make a donation.

The simplest solution is what I jokingly mentioned in an old thread : create false lag for everyone. If everyone "lags" the same amount, then no one can complain. Simple, if not fun.

llater,
Tony

Did you read my post? Where the hell did buying a server come in? Jeese...

[Ruby]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd


I guess that makes Ruby your retarded blue ox.

Your maturity is outstanding.