Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[Fluffz]

firebloom doesnt seem to get many kills

ill take that back, its usefull. game seems to be pretty balanced right now imho.

[dako]

So here are some of the abilities / upgrades I think aren't worth using right now...

Rotation - I tried dumping 50 or so UP into rotate on my lev, and quite frankly, didnt notice a difference in my playing ability at all. I kind of liked the old method of doing it, where it was actually useful, but meh.

Suggestion - Change it back to old way


Jav Rocket - Umm... what? This right now is quite situational, and since javs are usually rushing anyway, there isn't much place I would use this due to its short lifespan, unless i was chasing Raible or something :turned:

Suggestion - Make it a fast, short burst of speed to suprise someone from far a way (maybe like a reverse lanc bomber?)


Lev Mine - Ok, also really situational, does about 600 damage on a direct hit (which is quite rare), and is actually comical if someone dies to mine. It has a decent radius, but also uses 1500 energy to lay

Suggestion - Allow levs to lay two of these, or make them actually hurt


Lev Multishot - At the level that levs actually get this, their recharge rate usually far outweighs the 200 or so discount energy use this provides, and the lengthy jam that comes with it.. not sure if this was supposed to be an "omg im about to get rushed" last resort kind of ability.

Suggestion - Not sure on this one, maybe increase the spread?


And now some other random things

L3 Lev Bomb Prox - Ever since zeimonster started using this, I get tked quite a lot, as the thing has a huge splash damage area. Even if im almost a whole screen away, I can get tked if im low on energy. I can't imagine he could get a streak using it unless no teammates are to be found.

Suggestion - Low proximity, up the damage 200-400 points


Warbird - Don't really have an issue with them anymore, still kind of annoying to get danced around for a minute while having them warp away because antiwarp is non existant in this arena

Javelin - L2 bombs are good, but are justifiable at such a high level, dont really see a problem with them, I hear the energy cost to fire is huge

Spider - OK, so what happens when acid / mango DOES finally get that level 2, with multi.... and super... o.o Wouldnt that kind of equal autowin?

Terrier - Is there a way to alter the number of bullets a burst causes? If so, I think it may be better to instead of give terriers more bursts, and therefore have a constant number of bullets flying around, to give them one burst, but increase the number of bullets in each burst by 2 each upgrade, still starting with 3, then 5, then 7, etc.

Weasel - No one really plays this :P

Lancaster - Its pretty easy to get kills / streaks as a lancaster, but man you die easily

Sharks - Still the bane of my lev's existance, always have to rep my bombs .. Not particularly unbalanced.


Think thats it for now...

[AcidBomber]

ill take that back, its usefull. game seems to be pretty balanced right now imho.

LOL, yeh especially with sharks repping em everywhere. o.O
By the way, do you get a firebloom every time you die? Or is it like a chance thing?

[AcidBomber]

Warbird - Don't really have an issue with them anymore, still kind of annoying to get danced around for a minute while having them warp away because antiwarp is non existant in this arena

I have anti available for purchase, but frankly, i am not going to waste UPs so i can stop people like Dack from warping and streaking. I still like that idea that warping outside ends the streak.

Javelin - L2 bombs are good, but are justifiable at such a high level, dont really see a problem with them, I hear the energy cost to fire is huge

That's not the point. They have all the time in the world to recharge without getting hit by hiding in fr while the other team trys to push in. Gets even harder with mines in place. MJ and Brabbit kept getting 5fers with their bomb and the radius is huge - can probably be comparable to Zei's L3 radius - but only it does more damage.

I dont think the javs are fit to carry such a strong weapon at rank 40. Because once they do, they'll just sit in one of the fr's and wait for other team to push while team-fering and getting loads of easy RP.

Spider - OK, so what happens when acid / mango DOES finally get that level 2, with multi.... and super... o.o Wouldnt that kind of equal autowin?

Ok, let me explain my situation.
Super is randomized - as i said earlier, i have 3 of em (which is max until rank 50) that gives 30% chance of super every 30 seconds. It lasts anywhere from 0 - 15 seconds (13 was like the longest i had? but i usually die from strays before it's used up)

Also, i have 2 UPs left, and L2 cost 40 UPs in 2 levels, so i'll need to scrap something. And i also scrapped speed, so i am slow as heck now, i'll need to increase speed so i can chase people like Zei when i get my L2 which means more scrapping.

Lastly, try getting rank 47 in spider.

PS: Look below.

Lancaster - Its pretty easy to get kills / streaks as a lancaster, but man you die easily

Fluff's doing good with his firebloom thingy now. But he needs to aim roflmao, keeps missing me (and i am slow).

Sharks - Still the bane of my lev's existance, always have to rep my bombs .. Not particularly unbalanced.

Sharks are good, 8 repels are annoying though (like Meddi) lol
But i guess that's what they should have since meddi's rank 43.



-----
Now, lets do some kill-death analysis.



As you notice, the 2 javs on the same team with L2s have a crazy ass kill-death ratio.

On the other hand Dako, even though me and Alinea have the same amount of super, we still suck at getting kills. :P

Number in brackets are current ranks.




PS: Dug can you move that earth from north base entrance? Is very annoying and distracting lol =(

[Zeimonster]

As you notice, the 2 javs on the same team with L2s have a crazy ass kill-death ratio.

On the other hand Dako, even though me and Alinea have the same amount of super, we still suck at getting kills. :P

okay, I just had to comment this. First, their kill-death ratio doesnt mean they've necessarily got superior streaks or anything because of the constant tks. 2nd, u said u suck at getting kills.. then why is that u seem to have the 2nd most kills of all in the whole arena? alinea must've joined in late or smth. <_<

[AcidBomber]

okay, I just had to comment this. First, their kill-death ratio doesnt mean they've necessarily got superior streaks or anything because of the constant tks. 2nd, u said u suck at getting kills.. then why is that u seem to have the 2nd most kills of all in the whole arena? alinea must've joined in late or smth. <_<

2nd most kills? because i was there at the very beginning, first one in when it started. From what you're saying, shouldnt i be getting the MOST kills cuz i was playing for the longest time? <_<

By the way, are streaks the same for every ship?

Oh, and yes, i suck at getting kills because i should have had less deaths for the kills i got. And that was my point to begin with.
Without super, it was very rare to get a streak going. But now i can get a 5-kill streak at times, so that's good.

[meddi]

Spider - OK, so what happens when acid / mango DOES finally get that level 2, with multi.... and super... o.o Wouldnt that kind of equal autowin?

I was wondering this myself. At the moment, Acid seems to be able to get super frequently enough to make it good, but if a spider could do this with L2 bullets it would be insane.

[maddack]

Firstly do you people ever stop defending/complaining about your own ship? Jeez...

k/d ratio means nothing. You do not see what ships you kill the most, and what levels they are. And it also includes the FFA time at which some people goof around, skewing this.

Javelins are FINE as they are. You can't say they have kickass k/d ratios based on F2. It includes the gazillion TKs they get. Javelins are easy to stop with a ship called shark, which at level 30 has 4 reps.

What I think would be good is to but the beta multiplier on TKs also (I assume it isn't. If it is, TKs should penalize RPs at least twice as much as they do). End result: Good javelins/leviathans/sharks have less TKs and will therefore level faster than bad ships who can't bomb properly. Of course there may be a little tweaking needed to balance it out, like a little less to level up. Hopefully this will to some extent make newbs less willing to play the quite hard basing ship that javelin/levis are (I imagine alot of newbies choosing to play javelin based on the way ordinary (timed) pub is right now).


Spiders - Only playing against them only but they seem nicely balanced right now too. This is coming along nicely :P

Spider lvl2 multi super - Have to test this first. What probably happens with lvl2 bullets is that using multi when not having super is a bad idea. Therefore making the multi only powerful while having super. If it is too powerful I think a nice fix could be to not allow both lvl2 and multi upgrade at the same time (or at a very high UP cost, like 200). This would also make it possible to have two different builds on a spider. The lvl2 gunner with single fire and rare super, and the lvl1 gunner with multi and common super.

Lanc firebloom - if this costs 40 UP it is overpowered (that's comparing it to the 40 UP of terr emp). Way too often you were forced to either die to it or rep it. And it ended alot of the FR wars (kinda boring since that's the funniest part). With 40 UP it should be randomized to happen approximately one quarter of the times it happened in this game, OR make it a 100% prize if the lanc has stayed alive for one minute, so he can't suicide firebloom constantly (not saying Fluffz did this, but it is something that can potentially happen). The great thing about this burst is that it makes it very hard for sharks, since repping is probably a worse option than suiciding. Eagerly awaiting Fluffz's "reply" to this.

Shark - Nicely balanced. A bit easy to level at the beginning since the mines get their share of high level kills no matter who lays them. Maybe you already thought of this :P

Terr - The 3% baseterr bonus. I got to thinking it's VERY much for low level terrs. Suggesting either timed increase like 2kill(?) said or to remove it and make RP requirements to level up smaller.

Warbird - No opinion, only use it for easy kills between rounds. If only Aquatiq could stop the macrod scrap and upgrade abuse of his gun.
Weasel - Mjollnir is a smart dude, listen to him :P

[AcidBomber]

Spiders - Only playing against them only but they seem nicely balanced right now too. This is coming along nicely :P

Spider lvl2 multi super - Have to test this first. What probably happens with lvl2 bullets is that using multi when not having super is a bad idea. Therefore making the multi only powerful while having super. If it is too powerful I think a nice fix could be to not allow both lvl2 and multi upgrade at the same time (or at a very high UP cost, like 200). This would also make it possible to have two different builds on a spider. The lvl2 gunner with single fire and rare super, and the lvl1 gunner with multi and common super.

Yeh true, i can imagine it might be crazy with L2s flying around with super.
Let see how that works out when i get rank 47 next week... 60-70k to go!

[Fluffz]

I was wondering this myself. At the moment, Acid seems to be able to get super frequently enough to make it good, but if a spider could do this with L2 bullets it would be insane.

to be honest i dont think i would die faster to a spider on super with l1 than to a spider on super with l2

Lanc firebloom - if this costs 40 UP it is overpowered (that's comparing it to the 40 UP of terr emp). Way too often you were forced to either die to it or rep it. And it ended alot of the FR wars (kinda boring since that's the funniest part). With 40 UP it should be randomized to happen approximately one quarter of the times it happened in this game, OR make it a 100% prize if the lanc has stayed alive for one minute, so he can't suicide firebloom constantly (not saying Fluffz did this, but it is something that can potentially happen). The great thing about this burst is that it makes it very hard for sharks, since repping is probably a worse option than suiciding. Eagerly awaiting Fluffz's "reply" to this.

well, terr emp is very weak. anyway firebloom is slow as hell, how can u not avoid it? its like placing a mine between the enemy shark and terr, if the shark reps its his fault. But without a shark, its not gona kill. you have to look at the lanc as a whole, which is far away from being overpowered, just look at the records of <40 lancs and you will see some real negative records, not me but they are there.

and to be honest if the nmy lets me in their ear and close to their terr they deserve to die, nothing else would happen if i were spider or jav. i had at a point a 0-7 negative streak trying to reach the nmy and burst them, its not so easy. so firebloom did not improve my ratio, but it is an awsome in base ability to secure parts of the base.

maybe get some l3 ships because i can tank a l2 and still burst? as much as everyone hates l3 since both lanc and spider can tank it it might start to make sense upgrading to l3. a spider on super or firebloom lanc comming into the ear needs to be stopped and l2 doesnt do that.

as for the pricing itself i agree it might have to be different. i dont think suicide bursting will ever be as effective as a clever single burst but still it cant hurt to avoid this. since lanc benefits from kills why not price it after the first kill? and if you dont die price the next burst after 5-10 kills. dont link it to time, that will just make ppl camp. Randomizing them also works against clever burst attempt, ppl will just launch it at all cost before they die and i die a lot.

as for me aiming bad and not hitting anything, stfu nubs!

[2kill]

Terr - The 3% baseterr bonus. I got to thinking it's VERY much for low level terrs. Suggesting either timed increase like 2kill(?) said or to remove it and make RP requirements to level up smaller.

k what I was saying was I wanted it at 2% or so and then it starts increasing to about 4%(or 3%) depending how long you stay in Base now that wouldn't work with the system right now cause it just figuring out if your in base 50% of the time so even if you die you could still rush in to base and continue getting the higher profit sharing to fix this I think you would have to increase it to something like 70% (you would have to fine tune it)
and it would be a much better reward for staying alive

Javelins are FINE as they are. You can't say they have kickass k/d ratios based on F2. It includes the gazillion TKs they get. Javelins are easy to stop with a ship called shark, which at level 30 has 4 reps.

or a shark at level 25 with regen to 4! anyway in a basing match if one team had no sharks and the other team had a really good jav the one with no sharks should worry about its terr and to an effect them selfs too cause the javs bomb is deadly in breaking in to cram and hold cram when used right.

What I think would be good is to but the beta multiplier on TKs also (I assume it isn't. If it is, TKs should penalize RPs at least twice as much as they do)

I agree with this the penalization should be enough to make the bombers think about it.

2kill

[Fluffz]

TK: why dont we(dug) create a system similar to modern games there the TKed person can choose how to punish the TKer? i am thinking of the following options the victim could have:

-1..forgive
-2..emp
-3..kill
-4..ngative rp
-5..warp

RP: getting 10 rp from newbs while i guess they get 200 indicates i could get a 1:20 ratio. This is nowere close to reality and i consider this unfair. the process of getting rp is too harsh imho. i know dug already said there will be some changes but deviding income by 4 in the final is much, too much?

[schope]

i think they should raise a lot the amount of rp won for the team that wins, so people will really worry more with winning than getting kills

[AcidBomber]

i think they should raise a lot the amount of rp won for the team that wins, so people will really worry more with winning than getting kills

True, but it'll suck for the other half of the people on the losing team. So i think the losers should get some points just for participating? :fear:

[Vergilius]

Since all others were to lazy to post it.. heres an interesting discussion bout sharks.

First part: discussing powers of sharks

9:Major Crisis> i think sharks are fine
9:Mjollnir> are you a shark
9:Vergilius> the shark itself is fine
9:mango> he is a shark
9:Mjollnir> :<
9:Vergilius> the number is a bigger issue
9:2kill> I play all ships and I think so too
9:mango> put a limit on sharks
9:Major Crisis> yes i am mjol
9:mango> ie: 2 sharks in 1 base at once
9:Mjollnir> limit could be good
9:mango> or the # of sharks is relative to the # of people playing
9:Maddack+> I don't play jav and I think jav is fine woot
9:Mjollnir> yeah noticed..
9:mango> ie: 15 people or less = 1, 30 or less = 2
9:Mjollnir> damn acid trying to talk shizzle!
9:mango> etc
9:ALLITeratioN> I agree with mango
9:Major Crisis> rofl limit? there are like only 5-6 people in the game who are playing only shark..
9:2kill> thats four per team but we rarly ever get that much at once anyway
9:mango> thats 2 per team
9:Mjollnir> what's wrong with limiting them
9:mango> 30 on your team = 2 sharks max
9:Mjollnir> the limit can go up depending on team sizes
9:Maddack+> acid talks shizzle about all non spider ships
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the thing is
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the team with a shark is a winning team
9:mango> im usually too lazy to post my suggestions, so someone else can post them if you want
9:2kill> ah I see so one shark per team per base
9:Mjollnir> yes.. epic it is
9:Mjollnir> sharks are the deciding factor
9:mango> limit shark # / base, raise rep delay
9:EpicLi <ZH>> so just be a shark and go wee
9:Mjollnir> someone should post it
9:2kill> think about it its basing! if one team has no shark how wins?
9:EpicLi <ZH>> really, i think support ships shouldn't get the extra rp, just a skill that gives a % of the rp they gain to the rest of their ships
9:mango> which are the 'support ships'
9:EpicLi <ZH>> but that's the way i think
9:Mjollnir> yeah
9:2kill> terrs, sharks, levs, weasel
9:mango> how the fuck is a levi a support
9:mango> it has the best speed
9:Mjollnir> weasel only gets a lil profit sharing but isn't a support ship
9:mango> great guns great bombs
9:Maddack+> dug is probably on this chat, aliased :O
9:mango> ?_?
9:Major Crisis> why would you limit the sharks if there are mostly on 1-3 on one team?
9:2kill> it emps to help the team
9:EpicLi <ZH>> lev would be support if it had l1 bullets and l3 bombs
9:2kill> thats the case anyway
9:mango> yea
9:mango> and it would support if it was SLOWER
9:Zeimonster> i dont recall seeing any other fast levis besides me and epic
9:EpicLi <ZH>> beeing a fast lev is not a option
9:Vergilius> lol
9:EpicLi <ZH>> ppl kill you easily
9:EpicLi <ZH>> tank is the way to go imo
9:EpicLi <ZH>> 2k energy, spray and pray
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the l2 bullets
9:Zeimonster> i have 2k energy, level 5 speed, level 3 thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> i have 2k energy, lvl 5 energy, l2 thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> a portal, a stealth, i rush around for warbing wbs
9:Vergilius> weasel with 1k nrg, lvl 10 speed, l3 (?) thrusters
9:EpicLi <ZH>> a.k.a dack
9:Maddack+> only terr and shark (maybe weasel) should be support, and from the total RP in a round, support ships should always get a set % no matter how many, so more support ships = less RP per ship
9:Zeimonster> level 5 energy and 2k energy? o_O
9:Major Crisis> see the ranks on stats of sharks and other ships... sharks are like 10 lvls lower than the rest..
9:EpicLi <ZH>> lvl 5 speed*
9:EpicLi <ZH>> my bad=p
9:mango> look at ph :<
9:EpicLi <ZH>> ph is not a valid argument
9:EpicLi <ZH>> sorry
9:2kill> not meddi he's 41
9:2kill> thats up with the rest
9:Major Crisis> im 39 so what
9:Major Crisis> the sharks out of the top 5 are like -20
9:Maddack+> I'm 31
9:2kill> lol thats cause not a lot play them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> really, a shark can create destruction if he lags enought
9:2kill> I'm a lvl 25 shark
9:Maddack+> 2kill is like
9:Maddack+> that
9:EpicLi <ZH>> that's why i always try to shark when i play hosted basing games
9:Major Crisis> and then you guys are complaining about there are too much of them and they are too powered?
9:2kill> I don't lag
9:2kill> usually
9:EpicLi <ZH>> because i can mvp
9:Mjollnir> the problem is about teams having an uneven amount of sharks
9:2kill> I'm not
9:2kill> I say they are fine
9:Major Crisis> mjol thats with all ships
9:Mjollnir> not really
9:Mjollnir> sharks decide 100% of the time
9:Mjollnir> who wins
9:Major Crisis> one freq had mango, left_Eye, acid on
9:Maddack+> not 100% but ye they are the most important easily
9:Major Crisis> well i lost enough games..
9:Mjollnir> when they had yellows maybe
9:Mjollnir> yes you may have.. but the team with most reps wins most of the time
9:Maddack+> 3v1 sharks is autowin