++++ Small Weasel Petition ++++

[Ronn]

Please bring back the small weasel.

[DankNuggets]

actually i'm going to be specific

pretty please bring back the little weasel's settings... the small ship and shitty settings aren't fun for anybody.

[jngy slate]

*signs*

[Kaiten]

Small weasels ftmfw

Consider it SIGNED

[Ronn]

I have an idea seeing as they will only listen to what the LTs want why not bring back the small weasel for the pure pub map and keep the slow fat retard weasel in the other pub.

LTs wont get hunted down and we can still have fun basing with the small weasels.

[Kontrolz]

I have an idea seeing as they will only listen to what the LTs want why not bring back the small weasel for the pure pub map and keep the slow fat retard weasel in the other pub.

LTs wont get hunted down and we can still have fun basing with the small weasels.

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

[Ronn]

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

What do you mean harm purepub? They added some competition it was fun trying to grab the flag with a weasel in the last seconds and when you did the game got that more important to win.

[DankNuggets]

Ship settings are universal for public arenas. You can't have different publics with different ship settings.

Edit: Also, for purepub?! They did more harm to basing than cloaking the other over-powered ship.

more harm? more harm in that they actually served a purpose: to quickly reset the flag timer or kill an unaware terrier.

right now they serve no purpose. which is exactly how the basing population likes it seemingly. They want everyone in ship 3,5,8. That's not pub, that's ?go base.

The small weasel had many more counters than the current one. The only counter to the current weasel is its horrible bullet speed and it's overall ship speed.

1) Ships 2,5,6,7,8 had/have x-radar capabilities. That leaves warbirds, spiders, and levis (who are restricted) that are suceptable to cloaked attacks.
2) Small weasels could not cloak+stealth infinitely


The only bad thing I can see is that sometimes (actually quite often) the weasel did not die while turreting. I hardly see this as a major problem for basing in purepub.

The manuverability and bullet speed of the small weasel made it useful UNCLOAKED. That meant that not everyone in a weasel went around cloaked 100% of the time --- they had to pick the right time to cloak and move quickly to kill someone. They also policed themselves quite well.

The big weasel has a repel. That basically makes it 1/3 of a shark. Any of the pointless !team calculations telling me we need to change ppl into sharks or we have too many of them are based on the REPEL action of sharks (they're already limited in the mines they can use so having more than 2 doesn't affect that aspect). It's not a big deal, but it's a balance issue. In purepub, the only ship with a repel should be the shark, period.

[Kontrolz]

The point of basing is to grab and HOLD the flag. Those small weasels are not made for holding the flag-room. They are made for resetting the flag and destroying whatever form of basing was going on. I made an earlier post in this thread that refers to this.

This weekend with the small cloakers should be a nice reminder for everyone, they absolutely destroy any form of "basing" that may take place in pure pub.

There was some nice basing going on for about 20 minutes, some good back and forth then, then small weasel douches start up. After you see one five more are sure to follow within a couple of minutes and that's exactly what happened.

Now you've got one freq with a good mix of spids/terrs/sharks/lancs/javs against another freq with over five weasels just slipping in through the cracks. What happens to the well balanced freq? Glad you asked, they all turn javelin to try to kill the cloakers and eventually it turns into a javelin vs. weasel elim/tk fest and any real basers leave.

Pure pub my ass. Thank god this is only for the weekend.

Edit: Maybe if the reset buffer time was increased to 10 seconds it wouldn't be a big deal.

[DankNuggets]

The point of basing is to grab and HOLD the flag. Those small weasels are not made for holding the flag-room. They are made for resetting the flag and destroying whatever form of basing was going on. I made an earlier post in this thread that refers to this.



Edit: Maybe if the reset buffer time was increased to 10 seconds it wouldn't be a big deal.

That quotation you're refering to, the one where you talk about the return to small weasels, is completely out of context and you know it.

That was not the small weasel we all know. That weekend had the WORST weasel settings known to TW. They were given all of the overpowering qualities: repel, rocket, small, unlimited cloak, HIGHER THAN NORMAL ENERGY, and probably a few other things.

In fact, it was in response to that weekend that this thread was created, because it was obvious SLAP IN THE FACE of anyone who wanted balanced settings.

How is a rocketing jav much different? As of now, the entire freq could just switch to javs, have one laggy enough to eat through cram, and reset the flag.

If you have a terrier with x radar and a few lancs, you could easily handle 5 small weasels in attacking base, or at least you SHOULD be able to. They die in one hit to lanc bullets, so each lanc should be able to take out 2 weasels in one go (accounting for xradar drain).


And if the problem was being overwhelmed by mutliple weasels, then they should have been restricted to X amount per team, like what was tried with javs at one point in purepub. No one decided to fuck around with the javs settings, just fucked up the weasel settings.

[Kontrolz]

You clearly have little basing experience even in pub if you think there is no difference between a jav with rockets and a tiny cloaker with 1 hit kill bullets that can fit through all those small holes in the base.

I've pub'd and based for a long time, ask any baser or pub baser who has been around for a while if the small weasel helped or hurt the overall basing action in public arenas. I guarantee you the majority (if not all of them) will say it hurt the basing game. It is obvious to anyone who bases at all. That is why this discussion died and it wasn't reverted to it's small ship settings.

[Andy H.K.]

So the big weasel are made for holding the flag-room, aren't they?

Attacking and defencing is both half of the game, and grabbing the flag is half the objective. In every game half of the players are trying to grab the flag, because the other half is HOLDING it.

Every ship has its specialty. Warbird for long range sniping. Jav for hitting around corners. Spider for continuous firing. Leviathan for hitting through walls. Terrier for attachment. Lancaster for close-quarter combat. Shark for mining. For now, I think the weasel is lacking. Yes, it is for "cloaking", but for what purpose?

Ask more pubber to come up here and post. The discussion died because not enough people responded and we the supporter of the petition would rather not keep the topic bumped. And now the discussion shall be made alive once more

[CaptainPoopface]

...ask any baser or pub baser who has been around for a while if the small weasel helped or hurt the overall basing action in public arenas. I guarantee you the majority (if not all of them) will say it hurt the basing game. It is obvious to anyone who bases at all.

I have to disagree with you, and I live for purepub.

Without small weasel, the cram is the only real threat to the team occupying base. Roofers are annoying but can be easily avoided. With small weasel in the game, you must remain vigilant for an entire 3 minutes to win the round. The terrier's x-radar is a low recharge drain (probably designed specifically to counter the weasel), and the terr can quickly alert the team to the presence and location of enemy weasels. It's really not difficult. It's a sorry team that is repeatedly duped by a weasel. If they keep getting in and your team is not catching on, put a couple of mines on the flag, and avoid the rep TK range. Anti-weasel strategy requires little more than awareness.


Here's a scenario: Teams are even in number. The other team has the flag, and their shark mines the cram. You have a few javs outside lobbing bombs through the holes, maybe getting a few kills but making no effort to get in. You have a warbird or two flying around in mid, picking off single enemy ships as they fly across the cram, but making no effort to get in. Maybe a lanc is spraying the entrance too, but also making no effort to get in. Your shark is mining the tube, even though the entire enemy team is in base. You can shark and rep the mines in cram, but you (and the terrier) will be killed and the mines replaced because each of your teammates is afraid he will die if he goes in. The round ends after 3 minutes and 12 seconds, followed by a few more rounds of the same. Then people on both teams get bored with the easy victory / quick loss / lack of action and leave. The arena population continues to shrink over the next few minutes until it collapses, and then only the pub 0 remains, in all its non-basing glory.

This is where the old weasel could save the day. In a situation where you are stuck with a team of campers, cowards and fools (and this is pub we're talking about), you have a chance of saving the flag, and if not saving it, at least creating a significant diversion as most of the enemy team scrambles from their positions to kill the weasel. Even if you fail to save the flag, you can sometimes open a window for your cowardly team to get in while the enemy is out of position. The role of the weasel in basing was very clear cut to me.

It was also nice to be able to harass roofers without having to fly all the way around the map from spawn; being able to catch an x with an x; and being actually stand a chance when fighting solo with other ships. All these things could serve basing.

[Kontrolz]

The problem with the small cloakers was that it was waaaaay too easy to reset the flag. Like I said, if the reset buffer was set to 10 seconds it wouldn't be a big deal.

Doing this would have 2 effects, first it would make sure that if the flag is grabbed by the opposing freq it was at least a TEAM effort. It requires more than 1 or 2 cloakers to hold the flag for at least 10 seconds. It would also decrease the impulse people have to change to the small cloaker when the round is almost up so we don't see the cloaker vs. jav match that eventually happens.

If the reset buffer was set to 10 seconds I'd actually prefer the small cloaker.

[Andy H.K.]

The problem with the small cloakers was that it was waaaaay too easy to reset the flag. Like I said, if the reset buffer was set to 10 seconds it wouldn't be a big deal.

Doing this would have 2 effects, first it would make sure that if the flag is grabbed by the opposing freq it was at least a TEAM effort. It requires more than 1 or 2 cloakers to hold the flag for at least 10 seconds. It would also decrease the impulse people have to change to the small cloaker when the round is almost up so we don't see the cloaker vs. jav match that eventually happens.

If the reset buffer was set to 10 seconds I'd actually prefer the small cloaker.

10 seconds seems a bit too long, but I get the idea. A longer flag reset time would force team to actually take the flag room over instead of merely touching it, that should promote teamplay in the game. I suppose the "hold till win" time will need to increase too, to give people more time to work, probably 5 mins?