Distension discussion

[Viruk]

Resets are actually better than you might think, the longer we go in Hyperspace without having one the more people start asking for it

I am not surprised. A starting ship in Distension can actually kill a high level - even one that hasn't had their thumb mashed down on the fire key for half a minute.

There is much more potential for low level ships in Distension to coexist usefully with the highest levels. Sadly it doesn't work well with low player numbers and unbalanced teams.

[Stabwound]

I am not totally against a reset but as a player with high ranking ships and ambitions to improve them further it would certainly hurt. It would be worth it if it revived Distension though.

Well, you're about 1 of maybe 5 people that regularly play still. Everyone else has totally lost interest. I figured that if none of the former players play anymore then resetting them wouldn't be much of a big deal. The idea of resetting everyone is to just clear the slate once everything has been tweaked and is working well. If the ranking system was changed (and I think it should be) then it would obviously need a reset.

My worry about this idea is that if people know their ship gets regularly reset with nothing to show for it then we will lose some of the long term committed players in exchange for a bunch of players who will be happy in the short term but then leave as soon as we get a spread of levels or when leveling progress slows or the game becomes too challenging for them in some other way.

Well, I didn't say regular resets... but there was the idea of allowing people to willingly reset their own ships for a bonus. The hope was that the bonus would be enough of an incentive to have people to reset their own ships without forcing it on everyone.

Could we even safely do a reset without qan at the moment?
Is there anyone else who can take over coding from qan?

If the answers are 'no' then there is little point in discussing anything other than when the current Distension is going to be hosted and how it is going to be promoted.

Well, for one thing, Distension is qan's game, and I don't think he'd want anyone else touching it. For another thing, I highly doubt there is anyone competent enough to continue developing it- not to mention someone that would actually WANT to do this. Besides, I think that anyone trying to take over developing would need qan's permission if only because of how TWDev/TWCore is setup. Nothing is going to be reset or changed at all without qan doing it. I just suggest things to him- all of this is just suggestions currently. qan has the final say in everything.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned Distension is dead and beyond hope without qan, and I don't have much interest in helping keep a dead game going. There are tons of issues with the bot/game that need to be addressed. Before anyone whines, what I do is completely voluntary, and I'm no one special; just a player and staff member who likes the game and wanted to help run it. Anyone else on staff can do this if they want. That's one of the reasons it pisses me off when people whine if the game isn't started on time, or whatever. It's not my responsibility at all; I just started it up a lot, and then everyone just grew to expect that I'd be starting it every single time it's supposed to be run.

[project dragon]

Resets are actually better than you might think, the longer we go in Hyperspace without having one the more people start asking for it

Not to mention that since the last reset a few weeks ago, Hyperspace population has been able to maintain a steady population (35+) everyday.

[jngy slate]

This is sad. It ships get reset though, I would like some compensation like at least extra UP.

[getting pwned]

This is sad. It ships get reset though, I would like some compensation like at least extra UP.

Why should YOU be any different than anyone else who gets their ship reset?

I don't mind it, actually I kind of want it. To start your ship from 0 again. See how fast you can level in one session.

You really need to get over yourself baby cakes. Theres only talk about a reset. It's not a set in stone thing.

[Stabwound]

Exactly. Hell, qan might not even want to reset everyone. I'm just thinking it might be the best course of action ONCE all of the big issues are fixed. Obviously the game would have never been brought out of beta if he knew it would have such massive problems still.

[gdugwyler]

Hi guys. Sorry I've been away so long. Finals hit, and then after that I was happy to have a break from all responsibility. Unfortunately, my interests are a little too varied and sometimes I get drawn too far into one project or other and neglect some. One that was really neglected, in this case, was Distension, and I apologize for that... but at the same time, I needed the break.

Before I even left, though, the Distension was heading downhill, for a number of reasons mentioned. The constant recycles and constant badgering and disapproval from some staff members about them (somewhat understandably, though in many cases over the top) were also a bit demoralizing. As long-time players of Distension know, we've always had the recycle problem. I had to rewrite a part of TWCore just to get Dist to work, initially, but once lag between bot server and TW server was introduced, it came right back up again. Those who've followed HyperSpace development will also recall that this problem (among other limitations) was what prevented them from running on Subgame, the server platform TW uses. They moved to ASSS.

My hope was strung along for TW moving to ASSS, or for an ASSS subserver to run Distension. It would allow a lot of expansion of development and fix many of our problems. This just hasn't materialized, unfortunately.

Meanwhile, the "social" problems of Distension begin to flourish: people grow bored after having ranked up their ships, which occurred surprisingly quickly, and new players find they are unable to get their feet in the door.

One solution might be to have a time limit, much like pre-internet BBS DOOR games used to (anyone remember those?). You'd be able to play 1 hour a day, something like that, and maybe half an hour or an hour more of time where you'd receive half RP. At the end of the time, you'd then have to wait until tomorrow. This would allow players to get in the time when they wished, while also preventing some from getting ridiculously far ahead simply by investing more time than others per day. In DOOR games, this worked well; players would have to use their time (or rounds of play) skillfully in order to keep up with others, and simultaneously, this encouraged people to come back every day. The issue with this system would be that there may not be enough player demand in order to work properly.

So in order to create player demand, I had wanted to make things a bit more interesting: different modes of play, different mini-games between rounds, etc. Distension could be hosted more like an event in this fashion, and less like a serious obsession. (This is where I see the game going in the future, as populations inevitably dwindle.) We could adapt it not just to be a basing game, but also a hosted deathmatch and so forth... RP being awarded for each mode of play. It would be fairly simple to do; we'd just need the maps and a little extra coding, which I'd be willing to take on if there's interest. You'd still get the feeling of constancy of ships, but as the "Distension craze" has passed, it would lack the intense oversaturation of the current play.

Another option along these same lines: have multiple bases in the one Distension arena. We have plenty of room to add more, really. Different sized bases, from the large one we use for 40 player games, all the way down to something like the arena used for cloaks, designed for intense 3v3 competition. Or, letting players vote on which kind of playmode they use. Want a deathmatch or a Distension duel? Fire it up. In this way, the main arena might be able to survive as somewhat 24/7 if only by allowing players to activate and use it as they see fit, using their 1-2 hours of time for the day whenever they wish. (Special events, on the other hand, could be played by anyone, though preference being given to those who haven't played much. Events could also give an RP multiplier.)

Distension was an evolution of TW. Now it, too, is in need of evolution. It's not so much dead as just needing a fresh take. The days of obsessive play by a large group of people are probably behind us, but now we may be able to move on to a more casual form of play that's also better integrated into TW as a whole.

Comments appreciated and welcomed. I'll try to be around a bit more often. Let's see what we can do with this. (And you never know... maybe the ASSS dream is not so preposterous after all...)

[gdugwyler]

Ah, I also forgot: even if there were a reset, there'd be no reason we couldn't back up the old data and bring it out from time to time... but I do think a major change would require resetting in order to draw back interest.

[roxxkatt]

Database backed up as of:
Thursday, 06/04/2009, 12:02 PM CDT

[Viruk]

Hi guys. Sorry I've been away so long.

Good: Not dead!

As long-time players of Distension know, we've always had the recycle problem.

I don't recall any recycles since the last bot suicide setting change a while back. We probably haven't had a full arena since then and few 2 base games so perhaps the bot could still cause them though. Instead we get around 0 to 3 bot deaths per session although the bot survives more often than not. It can still die even with only 6 players and between rounds though which seems a bit strange.

Could we not have another bot which - if dbot was missing - would automatically or through player command reload and restart dbot with an explanatory message? Also allow it to be started within a schedule without needing staff? Perhaps dbot could save the progress of the current game and allow it to be resumed. This would reduce the bot death problem to a minor inconvenience without needing server technology upgrades.

One solution might be to have a time limit, much like pre-internet BBS DOOR games used to (anyone remember those?).

The game doesn't have enough players so force players to play less?!!

So in order to create player demand, I had wanted to make things a bit more interesting: different modes of play, different mini-games between rounds, etc.

I suspect it is far more important to sort out the existing balancing and reliability issues than to add new subgames. I admit that I don't fully understand why interest in Distension has died quite so fast so I may be wrong though.

Distension could be hosted more like an event in this fashion, and less like a serious obsession. (This is where I see the game going in the future, as populations inevitably dwindle.)

TW already has lots of events. Distension as an occasional event would be a waste. More obsession!

Another option along these same lines: have multiple bases in the one Distension arena. We have plenty of room to add more, really. Different sized bases, from the large one we use for 40 player games, all the way down to something like the arena used for cloaks, designed for intense 3v3 competition. Or, letting players vote on which kind of playmode they use. Want a deathmatch or a Distension duel? Fire it up. In this way, the main arena might be able to survive as somewhat 24/7 if only by allowing players to activate and use it as they see fit

24/7 Distension with special events gets my vote.
Seems important to make it a better game for fewer players. Alternative playmodes for smaller games ought to help. Most things in the current basing game have been tweaked to work well with a full arena. Try unlocking lanc or weasel in a straight 3 vs 3 game and you will find it more than difficult. Balanced teams in a 3 vs 3 are the exception rather than the rule as it becomes difficult to balance with fewer ships.

Perhaps the power of ships and the rewards they get should shift depending on the circumstances. For example you could:

Balance RP rewards for balling, basing and any other playmodes.
Relax the repeat kill penalties for base kills during low player games.
Give temporary powers (free upgrades and special abilities) for lowbies facing teams of mostly high level ships.
Give limited mine clearances/FR warps/tac ops abilities for small teams with no shark/terrier/tac ops when facing teams that have them.

Other things that might help keep the game interesting even after most players have achieved high rank:

Allow restarting of ships for a small UP, upgrade or special ability bonus.
Maintain in-game player stats and give extra RP rewards based on quality of play (achieving personal best, best in round, average best and all-time best targets on streaks, kills, kills per minute, flag grabs, holds, breaks, RP, ratio etc.)
More notice and rewards for level dependent achievements - e.g. end of round stat & bonus for the player killing the ship most levels above them and the player making most kills per level.
Have a special ability that lets players temporarily clone any active ship of their class so lowbies can get a taste of what it is like to fly a high powered ship (and determine its weaknesses).
Make army reshuffles and other balancing calculations ignore inactive players.

[kthx]

Just give up, it is over, it isn't becoming tw pub, I was right, all of you newbies were wrong.

[jngy slate]

well it was good for a while. and i was willing to dedicate part of my life every day for it.

[ÆNIMA]

How many people are you guys pulling in each day anyhow?

I would be playing if the afternoon slot were still available.

[DankNuggets]

r.i.p. :'(

[roxxkatt]

Just another reason to leave tw...

Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised...